2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 887 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Scott512 said:
People have been wanting to see a mature skater for TT for years. Zhenya will bring that type of mature excellent skater for TT that people have been wanting for years whether she's Olympic caliber or world championship caliber or not. I'm sorry but if people want to give a GP event to Sofia or little Liza and I'm good with that you better be sure Zhenya gets at least one if she's healthy. That's a big if of course. Let's see what happens in the off season. This passed off season into the beginning of the season was obviously very brutal for her.
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The Channel One gala events was probably the best opportunity we had to assess Zhenya's and Alina's form right now.

I was legitimately impressed with Zhenya. It was just a gala program, but her skating didn't look at all labored, despite the health issues she's dealt with this season, and it was a pleasant reminder of how much her artistry has been missed.

Alina, on the other hand...I can only hope she protects her legacy and stays retired. Not to mention that it would upset a lot of fans to see her take away a spot from a young skater like, say, Kseniia.
 
DougDorsey said:
I don't think it's a sore point. Personally, I find Anya fans and Sasha fans very respectful of each other. It's more so just an item of curiosity.

It does hold significance, too, as it would represent the first Russian girl to be jumping quads.

I believe I've read that Anya has said in an interview that she was the first one at Sambo-70 jumping quads. And Anya (as well as Sasha, for that matter) aren't the type to lie, so I'm going to take her at her word.

But it would be super interesting to see an interview with the two of them together discussing what that process was like in early 2017, when they were training side-by-side and gradually on their way to revolutionizing the sport.
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In my post I was talking about Anna's first quad in 2017. She jumped several, I remembered the frame count for the first quad she did. It was not at all a comparison to Trusova. If I talked about something like, "Trusova's first 4Lutz in 2020" is the natural reaction to go "No, Shcherbakova jumped a 4Lutz before her in 2020!(I'm not saying she did, just an example)"? Not at all.


On this topic though, TAT was talking about Eteri girl doing quads in late 2016 already during commentary, and back then Trusova was training 3A not 4S yet. Putting 1 + 1 together shouldn't be that difficult, but here we are.
 
Shayuki said:
In my post I was talking about Anna's first quad in 2017. She jumped several, I remembered the frame count for the first quad she did. It was not at all a comparison to Trusova. If I talked about something like, "Trusova's first 4Lutz in 2020" is the natural reaction to go "No, Shcherbakova jumped a 4Lutz before her in 2020!(I'm not saying she did, just an example)"? Not at all.


On this topic though, TAT was talking about Eteri girl doing quads in late 2016 already during commentary, and back then Trusova was training 3A not 4S yet. Putting 1 + 1 together shouldn't be that difficult, but here we are.
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That's interesting and probably telling, but it should be even less difficult than doing this detective work. As I mentioned, someone should just interview the two of them together at the CoR Final or Worlds and ask them straight out. They're both polite sweethearts and not the types to lie or over-embellish their accomplishments. I'm sure they'd gladly set the record straight.

And regardless of who was first, I think it's just as important to acknowledge the role the two of them played in pushing each other forward, not just in a competitive way, but also in the sense that it instills you with courage to attempt something risky when you see your friend and training mate attempting it at the same time.

I admire both these girls. And I don't think either of them would have gone on to achieve what they've achieved if they hadn't had each other.
 
DougDorsey said:
I feel like this kind of logic is easily dismantled.

Let's say it's the 2022 Olympics, and Russia sends Kami, Anya, and Sasha. And let's say that a couple days before the competition, all the skaters from Japan, Korea, and the United States - and all the Russian skaters except for Kami - come down with terrible food illness and have no choice but to withdraw. Kami, facing little competition at this point, easily wins a gold medal.

Is this still an impressive victory, given that it's the hallowed Olympics? Of course not. Why? Because Kami had no real competition; she could have won blindfolded. What does this show you? That the true impressiveness of a victory has more to do with the level of competition than it does the "prominence" of the tournament.

Thus, it doesn't really matter whether RusNats is "just" a qualification tournament; the level of competition exceeds pretty much any other event in all of skating right now. And the impressiveness of Anya's victories should be judged in this context.
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First it is a very unlikely scenario but I get your point. Second, kamila could only win this kind of olympics if she had hersef qualified for it for example via russNat. Which makes tge olymic win still more valuable. It al about beeing in your best shape at this very moment and deliver. With your argument the channel one cup is probably the most valuable titel of this season
 
Zagitova and Medvedeva are not coming back unless what happenend to Tarusina in France happens to several top girls.

I don't think Medvedeva can accept to keep finishing off podium in most of competitions and become a senior B and one GP skater. Not only it can hurt her image, but for someone who used to win medals it must be hard.

Zagitova is clearly moving on. She's focused on her studies and businesses. And realistically, getting back perfect competition shape would be extremely difficult.

So Rusfed should probably just think about who among Sherbakova, Valieva, Trusova, Usacheva, Tuktamysheva, Khromykh, Nuugumanova, Tsibinova, Samodurova, Guliakova derserves two spots.

Tuktamysheva will likely be the only 20+ skater to skate next season.
 
I hope someone takes in Latushkina.

Her and Sadkova were/are essentially in the same situation, because Sadkova also didn’t have a coach in Maryi El. They’re also from the same region, FS development for singles there is not good, which explains the situation for both.

Not aware about the ice situation for Darya, but Agneta has all her 3-3 with just 2,5 hours of ice per day (+ public skating sessions) without a permanent coach. That’s really impressive.
Both only have some coaching through summer camps.

Sadkova got extremely lucky to get into not just a Moscow camp with enough ice time, but one of the top schools. Hopefully, someone will notice Latushkina too.
 
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Taking advantage of a lull in the dialogue to call everyone's attention to another collection of fan cam videos, from Junior Nationals:


It looks like they just went up within the last week or so. During both the short program and long program, the videographer was sitting opposite the judges. Includes videos of (I'm going to do this with first names only and see if I get into any trouble): Adeliya, Anna, Liza, Nika, Sofa, Sofia, and Sonya.

Also, speaking of names, I don't want this choice moment to go overlooked:

DougDorsey said:
FroLo
Click to expand...
 
I remember Sasha saying in an interview that she was inspired by Liza Tursynbaeva, who was coming to Eteri for camps although she was training in Canada. If we are looking for the pioneer, it seems to be little Liza. But I agree that it was Sasha who started the quad revolution by doing quads in every competition and making them highly visible. I have no idea when Anna started training them, but it doesn’t matter, as long as she has them so consistently. Neither the quarantine not the illness not the growth affected them, so bravo to all three ladies for the courage and the massive work.
 
CrazyKittenLady said:
This layout is not maxed out. ;) Why not go for

3A
4F+2Lz
4Lz+1Eu+3F
4Lz
3Lz+3Lz
3Lo
3S

A bit risky, but any proper Eteri girl would do it like this! 😝
Click to expand...
That was only the first layout, 2022-23 season! At Milan Olympics, we will see:

3A
4S
4Lo
4Lz
3A+2Lz
4F+3Lo
4Lz+3T+3Lz

But seriously, though, opposite direction jumping is done for fun (and I think even tested on) in places like the ISI. It's cool, and it adds BV advantage when we're talking +Lutzes. I really would love someone doing a +Lutz. I think Rohene Ward used to train a 3Lz+3Lz (he was a member of the ISI).
 
DougDorsey said:
The Channel One gala events was probably the best opportunity we had to assess Zhenya's and Alina's form right now.

I was legitimately impressed with Zhenya. It was just a gala program, but her skating didn't look at all labored, despite the health issues she's dealt with this season, and it was a pleasant reminder of how much her artistry has been missed.

Alina, on the other hand...I can only hope she protects her legacy and stays retired. Not to mention that it would upset a lot of fans to see her take away a spot from a young skater like, say, Kseniia.
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I was impressed with Zhenya too. She skated quite well and easily and floated around the ice. This is why I think she's going to get one Grand Prix event at least. But it really depends on her health and if she is physically able to compete next season.

If the covid situation gets better alina may find some motivation to compete again. There will be a lot more people happy to see her compete then upset with her if she takes a Grand Prix spot from someone like Ksenia who competed in 1 more event. I think there's like a 1% chance that AZ makes a come back so it is unlikely she will take a Grand Prix spot from anyone. When she made the full time commitment to University it was pretty much the finishing touches on her competitive career which is meteoric and historic.
 
CrazyKittenLady said:
This layout is not maxed out. ;) Why not go for

3A
4F+2Lz
4Lz+1Eu+3F
4Lz
3Lz+3Lz
3Lo
3S

A bit risky, but any proper Eteri girl would do it like this! 😝
Click to expand...
These suggestions right here... This is the reason something like this would be completely pointless. Make it a normal layout:
3A
4F
4Lz+1Lo+3S
4Lz
3Lz+3Lo
3Lz+3T
3F

And it's higher BV than some +3Lutz nonsense.
 
DougDorsey said:
Yes. It's only a matter of time before ladies are allowed to jump quads in their SPs, just like men. And that's going to leave us with this odd, brief period of three or so seasons where there were ladies who were able to jump quads consistently, but they weren't yet allowed to do so in their SPs.

It sucks for girls like Sasha and Anya, but I also think it sucks a little for Aliona, as well, because there are inevitably going to be people who look back at some of her victories, like Euros 2020, and place an asterisk next to it. As in, "Yes, she won, but she probably wouldn't have had her biggest competitors been able to jumps quads in their SPs, as they are now."

Not saying whether or not I think this argument is right; just saying that I do think there will be people in the future who discount her accomplishments as a result of the unfortunate rules that were in place at the time.
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The problem is these skaters may have fallen on their quads in the SP as they often do in their free skates so Alyona may have won those events anyway. ;) Someone may put a mental asterix next to a case wins last season but there will never be a in official asterick nor should there be. The sport has never seen such a beautiful and mature figure skater at 16 that Aliona was last year.

Yes Doug at some point probably in the next couple years there will be one quad allowed for the ladies in the SP.
 
Skatesocs said:
That was only the first layout, 2022-23 season! At Milan Olympics, we will see:

3A
4S
4Lo
4Lz
3A+2Lz
4F+3Lo
4Lz+3T+3Lz

But seriously, though, opposite direction jumping is done for fun (and I think even tested on) in places like the ISI. It's cool, and it adds BV advantage when we're talking +Lutzes. I really would love someone doing a +Lutz. I think Rohene Ward used to train a 3Lz+3Lz (he was a member of the ISI).
Click to expand...
For 2nd place this layout may be enough. But if you're aiming for 1st, it's necessary to explore the combo 3F possibilities (it actually has been landed with no downgrades in BV) and +quad combos:
3A
4S
4Lo
4Lz
4Lz+3F
3A+4T+3Lz
4F+3Lo
 
Skatesocs said:
I wonder when Eteri's going to start teaching opposite direction Lutzes. Imagine heir-apparent-to-Akatieva doing:

SP:

3A
3F
3Lz+3Lz

LP:

3A
4T+2Lz
4Lz+1Eu+3F
4Lz
3Lz+3Lz
3Lo
3S
Click to expand...
Love it! I initially chuckled when I read this, but then quickly started to imagine what a 3Lz+3Lz would look like. It'd be super difficult to have enough rotational momentum to rotate in the opposite direction right after landing the first jump, but are there any known examples of skaters who have attempted this type of combination (even if it's a single or double)? I'm just genuinely curious.

Also, unrelated, but are there any recent reports of what Medvedeva is up to? I admit that I haven't been following this thread closely over the past few months so apologies if I missed some discussion that's happened already... but I've been curious as to how she's doing.
 
herro said:
Love it! I initially chuckled when I read this, but then quickly started to imagine what a 3Lz+3Lz would look like. It'd be super difficult to have enough rotational momentum to rotate in the opposite direction right after landing the first jump, but are there any known examples of skaters who have attempted this type of combination (even if it's a single or double)?
Click to expand...
I'd really have to check for examples on YouTube for the lower level combos, but I know Rohene Ward was rumored to practice a 3Lz+3Lz! IDK the credibility. But he certainly did have both the CCW 3Lz and CW 3Lz (I was recently reading his Fan Fest for example videos, so I know for sure he had both jumps, but alas, no examples of the combo, so no idea if it's anything more than a rumour). It seems more of a recreational thing than competitive one though.

I do think it'll look beautiful though! I am pretty sure Sonja Henie or someone did do 1Lz in the opposite direction too.
 
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