2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 900 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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I was giving scores to Anna, Sasha, AND Rika WITH big mistakes, around 220-230, showing that even with catastrophic skates from Anna, Sasha, and Rika, Liza N doesn't have the tech (or PCS or reputation) to come even close to capitalizing. "That's a 40 point difference from her best to them (Anna, Sasha, and Rika) with subpar, catastrophic skates!"

Really, Liza N would struggle to capitalize on mistakes and would need to be perfect to even overtake big mistakes from the levels of Aliona (without a 3A) or Liza T, and even there their reputations and PCS would save them.
Oh, I see. I apologize. I think I misread your post. I understood you meant that about Sasha and Anna but must have misread what you said about Rika. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I agree. That's true. They all do score in that range when at their worst.
 
Krivonosova's SP is just so good! It's filled with personality, detail, but also makes time for the jumps and spins. And the fact that she's like 11 (is she 11?) is just insane. I really love everything about her skating, except for the final position in the layback, which just looks kind of awkward to me? I think I've just found another novice to follow!
Krivonosova is just 10 and half yo! Birthday 2010/06.

The other 2010 girls to watch out for are Alena Prineva and Daria Sarimsakova. Both are CSKA skaters and have 3Lz3T and 3F3Lo/3Lz3Lo (Krivonosova's at 3Lz2T and 2A3T). Prineva's an overall package, very stable. Sarimsakova has amazing spins and needs a bit more stability.

Taisiya Kororbitsina is also quite a talent but she's not from Moscow or St.Pt (Volgogradskaya I believe?) and she desperately needs to change coach...
 
Stasya was (even kinda still is) a fed favourite. Liza N has never been and she's already 18. And Liza N isn't a podium threat at her best, barring crazy crazy crazy meltdowns from several people. She would need a junior grand prix final level skate from Anna and even then with junior scoring and junior program layouts Anna was only 7 points behind Liza N's international best. With senior scoring, her current layout, and senior PCS, it's not even close, especially as now even with meltdowns Anna has more quads than she did then. Sasha's worst skates with meltdowns are around 220-230. That's over 30 points higher than Liza N's international HIGH. And I except both Anna and Sasha to get even better PCS now. So even with meltdowns such that we haven't seen from Anna or Sasha Liza N won't get close - she's at least 30 points behind them with meltdowns. So that leaves the third spot. Rika. Rika has yet to put together her full arsenal and land everything cleanly and even then she's about 220-230 which is the same as a not clean Anna or Sasha. That's a 40 point difference from her best to them with subpar, catastrophic skates!

Okay, so who else is there? Bradie? Bradie tends to score in the 215-220 range. That's around a 27 point difference. Karen? She also isn't known for her consistency at all but Karen's international best is 13 points higher than Liza N's. And Karen is a stunning skater with gorgeous spins who will be going as US's number 2. Satoko? Now Satoko also struggles with underrotations, but even then she hasn't scored as low as Liza N's international best since 2015. And Liza N can't match her in PCS. Plus even there Satoko's international best is 31 points higher than Liza N's. Kaori? She's struggled at times. But she also tends to score above 200 and can easily score around 220. Plus both Satoko and Kaori will have much more federation support.

So it's not that she isn't necessarily a podium threat. It's that she ISN'T close to one. She would need meltdowns from 5 of those 7 and even with meltdowns she hasn't come close to reaching their meltdown skates. (And 3 of them she can't even touch even with meltdowns.)

Whereas even without her 3As Aliona is 220+ (at least might be closer to 225+) and even without clean skates Liza T tends to be between 205-215 and can score 230+ when clean. And I think it would be crazy to think Aliona or Liza T wouldn't have the support of the audience even if not clean. Plus Aliona in particular has MUCH higher PCS (Aliona gets the highest PCS in the world) and MUCH more Fed support.

Is it impossible? No...but Aliona and Liza T would have to really really really not be able to go.
Stasya being a fed favorite remains a great Russian mysteey. As beautiful and spectacular as she is she was never spectacular as a junior or senior so being a fed favorite left many perplexed. Anyway I hope Stasya has a great comeback season next year because ladies figure skating needs tall women like her doing well on the ice.

If little Liza beats big Liza and aliona as unlikely at that may be she goes.
Liza is 18 and coming into her own. I'm fortunately it's among the Russian ladies so there's not a lot of wiggle Room there if she were American or Japanese she would have a much better chance because of the lack of suprelative depth in both countries in the ladies discipline.
 
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Stasya being a fed favorite remains a great Russian mysteey. As beautiful and spectacular as she is she was never spectacular as a junior or senior so being a fed favorite left many perplexed. Anyway I hope Stasya has a great comeback season next year because ladies figure skating needs tall women like her doing well on the ice.

If little Liza beats big Liza and aliona as unlikely at that may be she goes.
Liza is 18 and coming into her own. I'm fortunately it's among the Russian ladies so there's not a lot of wiggle Room there if she were American or Japanese she would have a much better chance because of the lack of suprelative depth in both countries in the ladies discipline.
Yeah, there were many times when I thought someone else deserved to go rather than Stasya. However, she was/is a beautiful skater.

I would say even in the US or especially Japan she wouldn't have a much better chance. Wakaba and Mai couldn't make Japan's World's team and they're both much better skaters with much better reputations and accomplishments than Liza N. Mai is a 210-220 skater and Wakaba (although she's never clean :( ) is 200-210. And my beautiful Marin - who is a skater closer to Liza N - has absolutely no chance of making worlds. Japan is actually sooo deep - there are other skaters that Liza N would have to skate her absolute best and count on mistakes to come close. Not to mention that she can't come close to outscoring Rika and would need HUGE mistakes from Kaori and Satoko to come close to them skating at her absolute best.

And the US isn't actually much better. Amber, Mariah,and Alysa also didn't make their world's team and Mariah and Alysa in particular can outscore her even with mistakes. And that doesn't count Bradie and Karen both of whom she would need much mistakes to overcome and in the case of Bradie it wouldn't be enough.
 
Krivonosova is just 10 and half yo! Birthday 2010/06.

The other 2010 girls to watch out for are Alena Prineva and Daria Sarimsakova. Both are CSKA skaters and have 3Lz3T and 3F3Lo/3Lz3Lo (Krivonosova's at 3Lz2T and 2A3T). Prineva's an overall package, very stable.
2010 is the year of Alyona's: Krivonosova, Zhilina, Prineva
 
I try not to get excited about skaters until their at least junior eligible internationally but...it's soo hard. There are soo many exquisite and talented ones!
I just caught myself complaining yesterday about 10yo athlete "not hitting me in the face with her talent". :palmf:
What the heck, I'm so spoiled by Russian ladies skating. :rolleye:
 
Krivonosova is just 10 and half yo! Birthday 2010/06.

The other 2010 girls to watch out for are Alena Prineva and Daria Sarimsakova. Both are CSKA skaters and have 3Lz3T and 3F3Lo/3Lz3Lo (Krivonosova's at 3Lz2T and 2A3T). Prineva's an overall package, very stable. Sarimsakova has amazing spins and needs a bit more stability.

Taisiya Kororbitsina is also quite a talent but she's not from Moscow or St.Pt (Volgogradskaya I believe?) and she desperately needs to change coach...
Korobitsina could be considered the greatest 2010-born talent. I believe she already has a -3Lo combo and all. I think when she was younger she was well ahead of everyone, but I guess she's not been receiving the strongest of coaching. Personally I've never seen anything in the PCS categories for her, but my personal opinion doesn't matter all that much... As always with the younger age groups, I'm very PCS-focused because I don't think it's super important how early the skaters get their triples. Whether it's at 8 or 10 or even 11 isn't all that important, I believe. The reason for this is mainly Anna Shcherbakova's development. The -3Lo combo is a bit of an exception however, since unlike with -3T combos it's not quite a certaintly, so being able to land -3Lo combos is pretty significant.


The unfortunate thing with the CSKA trio of Prineva, Sarimsakova and Nosova is that they all are late birthdays for 2010, which means they wouldn't be eligible for 2026 Olympics. On the other hand, Alena Zhilina and Alena Krivonosova are both early 2010s just like Korobitsina.

Quite a few Alenas for 2010...
 
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There are so many beautiful photos of Sasha. That one belongs in the Coaching Cauldron Thread. Or in another thread, yet to be created, titled: "Bad and Questionable Decisions made by Adults responsible for the physical, mental and emotional well-being of Teenage Figure Skaters."
For me, what counts is the statements made by the "affected" (which, by the way, coincide with all the pictures we have recently seen during performances), not those of the sofa experts.
 
Your repeated postings about Krivonosova have made me watch several of her programs, and ... I ain't complainin'. I am very impressed by that short program. I think the only thing not quite as good is the step sequence: it seems a little slow and over-cautious to me. But I love the spins, I love the musicality, I love the performance.

You forgot to mention the moonwalk at 00:42. And what's going on with her hands at 01:51 -- is she firing guns while spinning? And talk about "outgoing": instead of bowing at the end, she gives the judges the blazing guns one more time.
It's true it's not her best step sequence. This one from last weekend was better for sure(it also is in the category it was choreo'd for so the ending works with the music far better:



From 2:18 or so.


But, there's something I have to say about the step sequence itself. It's very ambitious and not exactly cautious at all. It also is more difficult than necessary for lvl 4 steps. I assume you're mostly talking about the middle section of the StSq being slow so what we need to keep in mind is this:

The first combo's pretty standard, but the second combo's a left forward outside counter into left backwards outside counter(into loop).

So, the forward outside counter, we'll think about how often we see it... Almost all counters by the top four Russian ladies are backwards. I looked at Kamila. In the FS she did a forward inside counter, rest backwards. I looked at Kostornaya's SP and FS StSqs from last Euros, she did all her counters backwards from what I could see. Shcherbakova did a forward inside counter in her SP, rest backwards. Trusova in her FS did a forward inside counter, rest backwards.

So, none of Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaya, Valieva did a single forward outside counter in any of their step sequences. Keep in mind that with Krivonosova it's the first step of a mandatory combo where clean execution is a requirement for lvl 4 step sequence. And keep in mind that Krivonosova isn't going to get reputation levels like these established skaters. As I was going through everyone's step sequences looking for forward outside counters I couldn't help but notice how sloppy some of them were, got to question some level 4s on those.

Then here's the second point I'd make - the two choctaws you'll find in just about every lvl 4 step sequence. In the SP linked in this video, that's at around 2:50-2:53 where she does rocker -> counter -> counter into... what I could call left inside crossed open choctaw into leg switch into left outside closed choctaw(into mohawk). Although I'm not an expert on naming choctaws. But in any case, if you once again were to go through step sequences, you wouldn't see a sequence like that. Actually, I think the only one doing the inside crossed open mohawk is Kostornaya, who also uses it as a jump entry with counter. Usually, there might be a single choctaw, or the Rhumba sequence of two choctaws.


So keep in mind, for a 10-year-old this is a pretty ambitious step sequence and not exactly conservative, as there also are way more counters than necessary for level 4.

edit2: I had a bit of a mistake there, 3 rockers and 8 counter turns in the step sequence actually.


But anyway, pay attention to the forward outside counter and how she has to do it, the sort of balancing it requires and think of why none of these top skaters perform even a single one in any of their step sequences. (2:35 - 2:37 in the SP video on this post)
 
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Also, this was posted with Melkumova's past performance next to the recent one. If you just look at these side to side I guess it's pretty self-explanatory why I'm disappointed in the PCS categories she displayed here and don't have a ton of confidence in CSKA.
 
Yeah, there were many times when I thought someone else deserved to go rather than Stasya. However, she was/is a beautiful skater.

I would say even in the US or especially Japan she wouldn't have a much better chance. Wakaba and Mai couldn't make Japan's World's team and they're both much better skaters with much better reputations and accomplishments than Liza N. Mai is a 210-220 skater and Wakaba (although she's never clean :( ) is 200-210. And my beautiful Marin - who is a skater closer to Liza N - has absolutely no chance of making worlds. Japan is actually sooo deep - there are other skaters that Liza N would have to skate her absolute best and count on mistakes to come close. Not to mention that she can't come close to outscoring Rika and would need HUGE mistakes from Kaori and Satoko to come close to them skating at her absolute best.

And the US isn't actually much better. Amber, Mariah,and Alysa also didn't make their world's team and Mariah and Alysa in particular can outscore her even with mistakes. And that doesn't count Bradie and Karen both of whom she would need much mistakes to overcome and in the case of Bradie it wouldn't be enough.
Stasya is a beautiful skater and woman. But she has blown many opportunities she was given.

Little Liza just got lost in the shuffle the last 3 or 4 years like many of the other Russian ladies did. They got blown out a way by younger hungrier and better coached skaters ie: EG. ;)

It must be a pleasure for the Japanese ladies not to have young phenoms coming up to push the top skaters out of the way like it has with the Russian ladies for years. Same with the American girls you get to hone your game you get to build your career and do what Tennell and Bell did and that's become good at like age 22 for Bradie and 24 for Mariah. There's no chance that happens with the Russian ladies. Alina won Olympic gold and had 3A on her heels right away! Now 3A has KV Dasha Maya and 12 Sofyas coming hard!

I hope the top American and Japanese ladies realize how fortunate they are that they get to spend years building their careers without getting pushed out of the way by phenoms. They are fortunate with that but not as fortunate when they have to skate against the Russian ladies. :)

I truly wish some of the now late teen Russian ladies would have gotten dual citizenship or gotten citizenship in other countries like Estonia Lithuania Canada etc.
I hate seeing so many of the Russian ladies who were really good at 1 point not make it but they've gotten pushed out of the way. It's a jungle out there for these girls from Moscow to Saint Petersburg!
 
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Stasya is a beautiful skater and woman. But she has blown many opportunities she was given.

Little Liza just got lost in the shuffle the last 3 or 4 years like many of the other Russian ladies did. They got blown out a way by younger hungrier and better coached skaters ie: EG. ;)

It must be a pleasure for the Japanese ladies not to have young phenoms coming up to push the top skaters out of the way like it has with the Russian ladies for years. Same with the American girls you get to hone your game you get to build your career and do what Tennell and Bell did and that's become good at like age 22 for Bradie and 24 for Mariah. There's no chance that happens with the Russian ladies. Alina won Olympic gold and had 3A on her heels right away! Now 3A has KV Dasha Maya and 12 Sofyas coming hard!

I hope the top American and Japanese ladies realize how fortunate they are that they get to spend years building their careers without getting pushed out of the way by phenoms. They are fortunate with that but not as fortunate when they have to skate against the Russian ladies. :)

I truly wish some of the now late teen Russian ladies would have gotten dual citizenship or gotten citizenship in other countries like Estonia Lithuania Canada etc.
I hate seeing so many of the Russian ladies who were really good at 1 point not make it but they've gotten pushed out of the way. It's a jungle out there for these girls from Moscow to Saint Petersburg!
Liza N was consistently getting passed by younger and younger skaters. Now just in the last 4 years either, it started with Alina/Polina/Stasya/Anastasia G/etc/etc/etc even ones that weren't coached by EG and then finally the 3A. It's never a good sign to spend four (4) years at the junior level in Russia - I mean she was still only 15 but all her competitors had made the jump already. And most of her direct rivals had much more successful junior seasons. What happened in her 2017-2018 season?

As for Japan - Kaori DID go to the Olympics as a first year senior international season. Rika would have gone that year too if she was 1. old enough and 2. Japan had 3 spots. Both of them HAVE pushed top skaters out of the way - except for Satoko and that's happening now. And Rino and Mana - both 16 - ARE threats to the World's team. Rino in particular almost made it and they're both outscoring Wakaba right now. So yeah they're a bit older but remember what Rika did as a junior and rising to the senior ranks and there are more behind them. There are plenty of 17-18 year old skaters in Japan who will never had a chance to skate on the World's stage - like in Russia. Also my beautiful Marin who is only a year older than Liza N also has been overtaken by younger and hungrier girls in Japan.

As for the US, you might want to use a skater who actually made their World's team. 24 year old Mariah didn't. Also yes they aren't as deep but it would be crazy to think they didn't have Alysa Liu chasing them. She was a 2 time US champion at 14, winning her first title at 13. That's younger than the 3A although there are different rules. (Yeah she's struggled this year but then she was left off the team.)

It doesn't just happen in Russia. The peak in Russia may be higher but it's still hard to make a World's team - there are always younger girls coming for your spot.
 
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