2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[brakes]

It's true it's not her best step sequence. This one from last weekend was better for sure(it also is in the category it was choreo'd for so the ending works with the music far better:



From 2:18 or so.


But, there's something I have to say about the step sequence itself. It's very ambitious and not exactly cautious at all. It also is more difficult than necessary for lvl 4 steps. I assume you're mostly talking about the middle section of the StSq being slow so what we need to keep in mind is this:

The first combo's pretty standard, but the second combo's a left forward outside counter into left backwards outside counter(into loop).

So, the forward outside counter, we'll think about how often we see it... Almost all counters by the top four Russian ladies are backwards. I looked at Kamila. In the FS she did a forward inside counter, rest backwards. I looked at Kostornaya's SP and FS StSqs from last Euros, she did all her counters backwards from what I could see. Shcherbakova did a forward inside counter in her SP, rest backwards. Trusova in her FS did a forward inside counter, rest backwards.

So, none of Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaya, Valieva did a single forward outside counter in any of their step sequences. Keep in mind that with Krivonosova it's the first step of a mandatory combo where clean execution is a requirement for lvl 4 step sequence. And keep in mind that Krivonosova isn't going to get reputation levels like these established skaters. As I was going through everyone's step sequences looking for forward outside counters I couldn't help but notice how sloppy some of them were, got to question some level 4s on those.

Then here's the second point I'd make - the two choctaws you'll find in just about every lvl 4 step sequence. In the SP linked in this video, that's at around 2:50-2:53 where she does rocker -> counter -> counter into... what I could call left inside crossed open choctaw into leg switch into left outside closed choctaw(into mohawk). Although I'm not an expert on naming choctaws. But in any case, if you once again were to go through step sequences, you wouldn't see a sequence like that. Actually, I think the only one doing the inside crossed open mohawk is Kostornaya, who also uses it as a jump entry with counter. Usually, there might be a single choctaw, or the Rhumba sequence of two choctaws.


So keep in mind, for a 10-year-old this is a pretty ambitious step sequence and not exactly conservative, as there also are way more counters than necessary for level 4.

edit2: I had a bit of a mistake there, 3 rockers and 8 counter turns in the step sequence actually.


But anyway, pay attention to the forward outside counter and how she has to do it, the sort of balancing it requires and think of why none of these top skaters perform even a single one in any of their step sequences. (2:35 - 2:37 in the SP video on this post)

As much as I appreciate Krivonosova, I'm still gonna root for Kostyleva in Novice Nats. I'm expecting great redemption performance from her there.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Also, this was posted with Melkumova's past performance next to the recent one. If you just look at these side to side I guess it's pretty self-explanatory why I'm disappointed in the PCS categories she displayed here and don't have a ton of confidence in CSKA.

Yeah I agree. I feel like last season Melkumova really performed outward with the facials and wild arms (which while fast weren’t really flailing which was nice to see). Here, she still has good edges and good speed and amazing skating skills but I feel like she wasn’t performing nearly as intensely. Some of cool choreographic elements she does after the step sequence were also watered down and the spins weren’t nearly as good. But I have hope that once she gets her jumps to be more comfortable we’ll see more of that wild Melkumova again.

 

[Finley]

For me, what counts is the statements made by the "affected" (which, by the way, coincide with all the pictures we have recently seen during performances), not those of the sofa experts.

«Мне комфортно с Плющенко». Трусова рассказала, что не собирается возвращаться к Тутберидзе - 20 февраля 2021 - Sport24

Российская фигуристка Александра Трусова не собирается возвращаться к Этери Тутберидзе, отметив, что ей комфортно с Евгением Плющенко, под руководством которого она выступает.

sport24.ru

I 100% support Sasha choosing a coach that she is happy working with. I also think it is great that she is getting all of these experts to assist with different aspects of her skating. I love Sasha and wish her every success.

I posted that in an emotional reaction to seeing the photo. Like most decisions made in the heat of the moment; in retrospect it seems pointless.

What matters is that Sasha is having a positive experience.

 

[Scott512]

I 100% support Sasha choosing a coach that she is happy working with. I also think it is great that she is getting all of these experts to assist with different aspects of her skating. I love Sasha and wish her every success.

I posted that in an emotional reaction to seeing the photo. Like most decisions made in the heat of the moment; in retrospect it seems pointless.

What matters is that Sasha is having a positive experience.

Sasha also has a much bigger voice at PA than she did at TT. And she doesn't have to skate on the same ice with five or six other fantastic lady skaters at the same.

The move seems to be working out well for her on and off the ice. Other than her being injured for the first time in her career. Let's hope both she and aliona finish the season strong.

I am glad Sasha is skipping the Russian Cup Final so she can get healthier for worlds. The opportunity is there for her and Anna to get the gold without KV in their hair.

 

[lopsilceci]

For me, what counts is the statements made by the "affected" (which, by the way, coincide with all the pictures we have recently seen during performances), not those of the sofa experts.

«Мне комфортно с Плющенко». Трусова рассказала, что не собирается возвращаться к Тутберидзе - 20 февраля 2021 - Sport24

Российская фигуристка Александра Трусова не собирается возвращаться к Этери Тутберидзе, отметив, что ей комфортно с Евгением Плющенко, под руководством которого она выступает.

sport24.ru

That comment by Finley wasn't about Plushenko coaching Sasha, though. It's about Morozov, who's not someone you would want around any young skater and inviting him is definitely a questionable decision made by the adults around Sasha.

 

[Finley]

That comment by Finley wasn't about Plushenko coaching Sasha, though. It's about Morozov, who's not someone you would want around any young skater and inviting him is definitely a questionable decision made by the adults around Sasha.

I should have been more clear in my post.

 

[Scott512]

That comment by Finley wasn't about Plushenko coaching Sasha, though. It's about Morozov, who's not someone you would want around any young skater and inviting him is definitely a questionable decision made by the adults around Sasha.

Fair point.

But this sport and this girl are all about winning and if this guy with his checkered past in relationships it's like he casts a spell on girls does a good job as a choreographer for Sasha it could pay off with a world or Olympic gold medal. Is it worth it? To Sashas parents it is. They know who Morozov is and I gather they are fine with him working with their daughter.

Hopefully Plushy has him on a short leash.

Sasha is putting things together in all aspects and really seems to be targeting a world gold this year or Olympic gold next year. It's going to be hard to stop her. There is no Kamila this year's worlds this is sashas time to strike.

 

[Tonight's the Night]

It's true it's not her best step sequence. This one from last weekend was better for sure(it also is in the category it was choreo'd for so the ending works with the music far better:



From 2:18 or so.


But, there's something I have to say about the step sequence itself. It's very ambitious and not exactly cautious at all. It also is more difficult than necessary for lvl 4 steps. I assume you're mostly talking about the middle section of the StSq being slow so what we need to keep in mind is this:

The first combo's pretty standard, but the second combo's a left forward outside counter into left backwards outside counter(into loop).

So, the forward outside counter, we'll think about how often we see it... Almost all counters by the top four Russian ladies are backwards. I looked at Kamila. In the FS she did a forward inside counter, rest backwards. I looked at Kostornaya's SP and FS StSqs from last Euros, she did all her counters backwards from what I could see. Shcherbakova did a forward inside counter in her SP, rest backwards. Trusova in her FS did a forward inside counter, rest backwards.

So, none of Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaya, Valieva did a single forward outside counter in any of their step sequences. Keep in mind that with Krivonosova it's the first step of a mandatory combo where clean execution is a requirement for lvl 4 step sequence. And keep in mind that Krivonosova isn't going to get reputation levels like these established skaters. As I was going through everyone's step sequences looking for forward outside counters I couldn't help but notice how sloppy some of them were, got to question some level 4s on those.

Then here's the second point I'd make - the two choctaws you'll find in just about every lvl 4 step sequence. In the SP linked in this video, that's at around 2:50-2:53 where she does rocker -> counter -> counter into... what I could call left inside crossed open choctaw into leg switch into left outside closed choctaw(into mohawk). Although I'm not an expert on naming choctaws. But in any case, if you once again were to go through step sequences, you wouldn't see a sequence like that. Actually, I think the only one doing the inside crossed open mohawk is Kostornaya, who also uses it as a jump entry with counter. Usually, there might be a single choctaw, or the Rhumba sequence of two choctaws.


So keep in mind, for a 10-year-old this is a pretty ambitious step sequence and not exactly conservative, as there also are way more counters than necessary for level 4.

edit2: I had a bit of a mistake there, 3 rockers and 8 counter turns in the step sequence actually.


But anyway, pay attention to the forward outside counter and how she has to do it, the sort of balancing it requires and think of why none of these top skaters perform even a single one in any of their step sequences. (2:35 - 2:37 in the SP video on this post)

I suppose I should have said "hesitant" instead of "cautious." I didn't mean conservative or non-ambitious; I had seen that she got a level four for the step sequence, for example.

OK, thanks. I am learning about steps and I will look into the different kinds of counters. It might take me a few months, though...

 

[Scott512]

Does Russia get to compete as Russia in the world championships of figure skating and then switch to OAR are at the Olympics next year?

I can't imagine how frustrated in pistol off their clean athletes are.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Does Russia get to compete as Russia in the world championships of figure skating and then switch to OAR are at the Olympics next year?

I can't imagine how frustrated in pistol off their clean athletes are.

I don't think they can compete under the Russian flag since I'm pretty sure I heard that if a Russian wins at the world championships they'll play Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto instead of the anthem (which is a fantastic choice of substitution in my opinion).

 

[Shayuki]

I suppose I should have said "hesitant" instead of "cautious." I didn't mean conservative or non-ambitious; I had seen that she got a level four for the step sequence, for example.

Anyhow, don't you think her forward reverse can opener into backwards inside Comanche goes well with her triple-scoop twizzler? I think you overlooked those moves and urge you to have more humility in your analyses of skating.

OK, in all seriousness, thanks. I am learning about steps and I will look into the different kinds of counters. It might take me a few months, though...

Hm, I just pointed out two things about the step sequence, but mainly the forward outside counter, even Melkumova wasn't doing it in her StSqs. I don't think I had an aggressive tone in my post, or at least didn't intend to if I accidentally did.

The specification isn't that difficult right, left foot and right food, backwards or forward, outside or inside edge, it's self-explanatory and easy to look for in slow-mos if you'd like. Except with Choctaws, but I tried my best.

Counter and Rocker are just the turns, counter goes around from behind in relation to the traveling direction, rocker from the front. It's really not difficult, so don't feel like it needs to take 2 months.

edit: For some reason I called rocker turns brackets

 

[Jontor]

Does Russia get to compete as Russia in the world championships of figure skating and then switch to OAR are at the Olympics next year?

I can't imagine how frustrated in pistol off their clean athletes are.

Russia just competed at the Biathlon Worlds as RBU (Russian Biathlon Union), and I expect them to compete at Stockholm Worlds as RFSU (or something like that)

 

[chasingneverland]

Does Russia get to compete as Russia in the world championships of figure skating and then switch to OAR are at the Olympics next year?

I can't imagine how frustrated in pistol off their clean athletes are.

No. Russia's ban from using the flag, name, and anthem was from the middle of Dec for two years effective immediately.

 

[Shayuki]

So Alena Zhilina in a competition today(There's a competition going on every day isn't there?), this SP. In terms of positives, I'd say the Flip looked pretty big. She's had relatively small jumps and seems to be gaining some height lately, so that's always a good thing.


Then the rest... Zhilina sisters are a little frustrating in that they theoretically should have the capability for PCS but the presence and performing is still non-existent for her. I'd have thought that Alena as the seemingly more outgoing one would be more of a performer but I guess that's just not the case. Here she just performs choreo like she's being forced to and wants to get it out of the way.

Well, not that I necessarily blame her for that. I think that this program's absolutely horrible. What the heck were they thinking? Who even knows at this point...

 

[Mauvedreamer]

To be honest, inviting an outside choreographer isn't always a bad choice. Say, Elena Radionova with her Shae-Lynn program, it was so enjoyable and fun! One of her best programs for sure. Yulia's Olympic SP and FS were her first programs with Averbukh and look how well they turned out. Of course, I think choreographers who are (1) good at choreographing and (2) understand their clients are the best - look at Lori Nichol's programs for Sui/Han, or Benoit for Kaori.

But if we're counting it would be (of this season) 1. to Rozanov/Plushenko, 2. to Mikhailov/Plushenko, 3. Rozanov choreography, 4. Morozov choreography, 4.5 Ilinykh and then no Ilinykh. (though would Morozov be choreographing next season's programs? I wouldn't expect them to change her programs now).

Yes it's not a bad idea, it's just Sasha has had so many in such a short space of time!! Must be quite unsettling. However there nothing wrong with experimenting ,just before worlds !! Hopefully he is there to work on new programs for next season. Think sasha needs some stability with this team . Willing to put it down to teething problems. Love Sasha ,her skating and I want the best for her. Wish her well in this team. She appears happy except when the scores obviously quite hard to take. She deserves a team of people who are experienced and really understand her. Drop the graceful princess look... give her a punk rock or something strong edgy music that plays to her strengths..fast and dynamic and I want to see her embrace those qualities.

Does Russia get to compete as Russia in the world championships of figure skating and then switch to OAR are at the Olympics next year?

I can't imagine how frustrated in pistol off their clean athletes ar

Does Russia get to compete as Russia in the world championships of figure skating and then switch to OAR are at the Olympics next year?

I can't imagine how frustrated in pistol off their clean athletes are.

 

[Tonight's the Night]

Hm, I just pointed out two things about the step sequence, but mainly the forward outside counter, even Melkumova wasn't doing it in her StSqs. I don't think I had an aggressive tone in my post, or at least didn't intend to if I accidentally did.

The specification isn't that difficult right, left foot and right food, backwards or forward, outside or inside edge, it's self-explanatory and easy to look for in slow-mos if you'd like. Except with Choctaws, but I tried my best.

Counter and Rocker are just the turns, counter goes around from behind in relation to the traveling direction, rocker from the front. It's really not difficult, so don't feel like it needs to take 2 months.

edit: For some reason I called rocker turns brackets

Oh, geez, sorry, sorry! No aggressive tone from you at all. I was trying to be funny. I was acknowledging that you knew things I didn't and that those things were interesting. And also that I've been working on getting better at looking at the steps but it doesn't come as easily to me as recognizing jumps or spins or whatever else. I have found good videos on the youtube explaining the steps.

Edit: edited original post to remove sarcasm!

 

[Scott512]

I don't think they can compete under the Russian flag since I'm pretty sure I heard that if a Russian wins at the world championships they'll play Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto instead of the anthem (which is a fantastic choice of substitution in my opinion).

For real?

Stop treating Russian figure skating like it's Russian Athletics.

I mean Ben Jonson and that extravagant steroids scheme in Canada did not ruin Canadian sports and Sid the kid. Why should would happen in Russian track-and-field hurt Russian figure scaters who are as clean as you can get?

And you're staying home Marion Jones and her husband the power guy in track-and-field did not cripple American track-and-field sports. And there PED scandal was deep with many athletes.

 

[Scott512]

I don't think they can compete under the Russian flag since I'm pretty sure I heard that if a Russian wins at the world championships they'll play Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto instead of the anthem (which is a fantastic choice of substitution in my opinion).

Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto will be nice but not think Russian anthem.

It's 7 years after the Sochi Winter olympics.
How many years is Russia gonna have to put up with this? I guess two more.

 

[katymay]

So Alena Zhilina in a competition today(There's a competition going on every day isn't there?), this SP. In terms of positives, I'd say the Flip looked pretty big. She's had relatively small jumps and seems to be gaining some height lately, so that's always a good thing.


Then the rest... Zhilina sisters are a little frustrating in that they theoretically should have the capability for PCS but the presence and performing is still non-existent for her. I'd have thought that Alena as the seemingly more outgoing one would be more of a performer but I guess that's just not the case. Here she just performs choreo like she's being forced to and wants to get it out of the way.

Well, not that I necessarily blame her for that. I think that this program's absolutely horrible. What the heck were they thinking? Who even knows at this point...

I like the program, she just needs to work on her performance quality. She is still younger age Novice, so there is plenty of time, and some of the greats at this age fizzle out, while others start surging as they close in on 12. From the programs I've seen this year from Alena, I wonder if she really wants to compete at an elite level. Or perhaps she is struggling with going from a low key training program to a more difficult one. So many of the 9 and 10 year olds at the Moscow competition-even if they fell on multiple jumps, the commitment was there-you could tell they really wanted to be on the ice and do the best they could do. I'm not seeing that from Alena.

 

[chasingneverland]

For real?

Stop treating Russian figure skating like it's Russian Athletics.

I mean Ben Jonson and that extravagant steroids scheme in Canada did not ruin Canadian sports and Sid the kid. Why should would happen in Russian track-and-field hurt Russian figure scaters who are as clean as you can get?

And you're staying home Marion Jones and her husband the power guy in track-and-field did not cripple American track-and-field sports. And there PED scandal was deep with many athletes.

Because for Russia the doping was widespread and state-initiated and systematic. Also they tried to sabatoge investigations into it. Russia did get their ban reduced though - it was supposed to be 4 years initially.