2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Dawn825]

Hopefully he is there to work on new programs for next season.

They're stupid if they're working on next years programs a month before worlds. More likely he's there to make adjustments to her current programs or, in typical Plushenko fashion, just for the optics.

 

[Scott512]

Because for Russia the doping was widespread and state-initiated and systematic. Also they tried to sabatoge investigations into it. Russia did get their ban reduced though - it was supposed to be 4 years initially.

Oh I guess 2 years is better than four yeurs.
What a mess. I think the great Russias athletes that never tested positive for any PED to speak out In support of the athletes that are clean.

But yes it was systematic and widespread and that can never be forgotten.

 

[alexocfp]

If athletes have not tested positive, then they should be able to represent their country and hear their anthem.

The skaters had nothing to do with anythimg in this case. No reason to punish them.

 

[rollerblade]

From the programs I've seen this year from Alena, I wonder if she really wants to compete at an elite level. Or perhaps she is struggling with going from a low key training program to a more difficult one. So many of the 9 and 10 year olds at the Moscow competition-even if they fell on multiple jumps, the commitment was there-you could tell they really wanted to be on the ice and do the best they could do. I'm not seeing that from Alena.

She does have that just going through the motion look to her skating. I haven't seen her other programs to know whether she just does not like this dance style, or like you say, does not really want to "do this for a living", so to speak.

 

[Amei]

She does have that just going through the motion look to her skating. I haven't seen her other programs to know whether she just does not like this dance style, or like you say, does not really want to "do this for a living", so to speak.

She's how old, like 10? I've seen senior level skaters phone in their performances, I give her age a bit of a break she's learning elements, learning how to perform, etc. I think part of the problem the song is too fast for her based on this performance, she doesn't have enough speed to keep up with it. Here are a couple performances where it doesn't look like her parents shoved her out on the ice.

 

[Amei]

If athletes have not tested positive, then they should be able to represent their country and hear their anthem.

The skaters had nothing to do with anythimg in this case. No reason to punidh them.

I think the 'neutral' anthem playing is the best that can be done, the Russian issue from everything I've heard was a systematic issue of doping/covering up; it's a tough place for governing bodies to be in because how do you punish those that orchestrated the issue but not punish innocent athletes.

 

[alexocfp]

I think the 'neutral' anthem playing is the best that can be done, the Russian issue from everything I've heard was a systematic issue of doping/covering up; it's a tough place for governing bodies to be in because how do you punish those that orchestrated the issue but not punish innocent athletes.

There is no evidence that implicates Kamila, Anna, or Sasha that I am aware of.

And WADA knows there is no evidence against them because they are allowed to compete.

Punishing innocent athletes is just vindictive and done purely for theater.

Banning the whole country was half assed punishment to begin with. The lawsuits flew fast and furiously after innocent athletes were slandered.

 

[Vilord]

There is no evidence that implicates Kamila, Anna, or Sasha that I am aware of.

And WADA knows there is no evidence against them because they are allowed to compete.

Punishing innocent athletes is just vindictive and done purely for theater.

Banning the whole country was half assed punishment to begin with. The lawsuits flew fast and furiously after innocent athletes were slandered.

I dont think anyone is suggesting there is anything against those skaters. The doping ban was more against the contry and state because there was evidence of organized doping and state wide hinderence of anti doping controlls along with the russian anti doping organisation not being willing to admit any wrongdoing etc.

The fact that figure skaters etc are allowed to compete under neutrual flag is a way of trying not to punish innocent athletes more than necessary. Honestly they are lucky they get to compete at all.

 

[[email protected]]

Sasha also has a much bigger voice at PA than she did at TT.

I am not sure that it is good for her competition wise. I don't know what's going on behind the curtains at TT. But whatever it is so far worked marvelously. And vice versa whoever got "much bigger voice" leaving TT somehow lost their competitiveness.

The discussion has been on this board for quite a while and in many forms including dragging here "Kiira concerned Korpi". There are written and implied rules in a civil society. There are rules in the army. Few would argue that all the concerns about privacy, self-respect and dignity that dominate the current Western culture should extend to the army. Given a choice of "living in love and respect" or not being conqured only very myopic people would vote for the former. Sports are not the army but they are not a civil society as well. There are thousands of figure skaters and only 1 OGM winner once in 4 years. And if there are measures that do not cross the legal line but could be challenged based on moral values and norms especially current Western values and norms I am not sure that they are wrong if they bring results. This might include not giving the skaters the size of the voice that they would like to have. And this includes their parents as well.

 

[FelineFairy]

I am not sure that it is good for her competition wise. I don't know what's going on behind the curtains at TT. But whatever it is so far worked marvelously. And vice versa whoever got "much bigger voice" leaving TT somehow lost their competitiveness.

The discussion has been on this board for quite a while and in many forms including dragging here "Kiira concerned Korpi". There are written and implied rules in a civil society. There are rules in the army. Few would argue that all the concerns about privacy, self-respect and dignity that dominate the current Western culture should extend to the army. Given a choice of "living in love and respect" or not being conqured only very myopic people would vote for the former. Sports are not the army but they are not a civil society as well. There are thousands of figure skaters and only 1 OGM winner once in 4 years. And if there are measures that do not cross the legal line but could be challenged based on moral values and norms especially current Western values and norms I am not sure that they are wrong if they bring results. This might include not giving the skaters the size of the voice that they would like to have. And this includes their parents as well.

Trying to persuade a representative of a different culture to respect one's values is pointless. There will always be a "we" and a "they", and what we do is immediately classified as good, while what they do is bad. But universal values don't exist, so before starting to express concerns one should get a bit of awareness. On all sides of any dispute. BTW values can be very different not only within an ethnicity but also within social and professional groups, so even the controversy between coaching teams and supporters needs to be looked into a bit deeper before taking sides in an argument, IMHO.

 

[Scott512]

Trying to persuade a representative of a different culture to respect one's values is pointless. There will always be a "we" and a "they", and what we do is immediately classified as good, while what they do is bad. But universal values don't exist, so before starting to express concerns one should get a bit of awareness. On all sides of any dispute. BTW values can be very different not only within an ethnicity but also within social and professional groups, so even the controversy between coaching teams and supporters needs to be looked into a bit deeper before taking sides in an argument, IMHO.

Very different for sure.

 

[Scott512]

I am not sure that it is good for her competition wise. I don't know what's going on behind the curtains at TT. But whatever it is so far worked marvelously. And vice versa whoever got "much bigger voice" leaving TT somehow lost their competitiveness.

The discussion has been on this board for quite a while and in many forms including dragging here "Kiira concerned Korpi". There are written and implied rules in a civil society. There are rules in the army. Few would argue that all the concerns about privacy, self-respect and dignity that dominate the current Western culture should extend to the army. Given a choice of "living in love and respect" or not being conqured only very myopic people would vote for the former. Sports are not the army but they are not a civil society as well. There are thousands of figure skaters and only 1 OGM winner once in 4 years. And if there are measures that do not cross the legal line but could be challenged based on moral values and norms especially current Western values and norms I am not sure that they are wrong if they bring results. This might include not giving the skaters the size of the voice that they would like to have. And this includes their parents as well.

So far Sasha is the only TT lady to ever leave and keep her performance level at or close to where it was when she was at TT.

I also think going to an academy where you are the girl is attractive to some of these skaters but at TT everything gets shared including time spent with coaches

 

[Gabby30]

So far Sasha is the only TT lady to ever leave and keep her performance level at or close to where it was when she was at TT

And skaters are normaly at the the downfall already when they leave. Why is this being ignored? No matter if Yulia, Medvedeva or Trusova, they all already struggled when they were with Eteri. It's not something that startet miraculously AFTER leaving her. These skaters at least try to fix the issues and keep competing under another coach, while others stay and go down despite staying with Eteri. Let's remember Zagitova's last competition, where she ended on the last place, or where is Tursynbaeva? You can't claim this happend to them because they left TT, because they never did

 

[ruga]

Actually I don't really think Sasha got worse after leaving TT. She always had her ups and downs and the quads are still there. Agree with the poster above, skaters usually have a declined form by the time they leave. There is a significant gap from last competition of one season to the first of other, so it's not correct to judge work of coaching teams like that. We will never know what would've happened if Aliona or Evgenia never left Tutberidze or if Alina left after her first or second season.

 

[Scott512]

And skaters are normaly at the the downfall already when they leave. Why is this being ignored? No matter if Yulia, Medvedeva or Trusova, they all already struggled when they were with Eteri. It's not something that startet miraculously AFTER leaving her. These skaters at least try to fix the issues and keep competing under another coach, while others stay and go down despite staying with Eteri. Let's remember Zagitova's last competition, where she ended on the last place, or where is Tursynbaeva? You can't claim this happend to them because they left TT, because they never did

Sasha was still scoring very high the issue was her two teammates were scoring a little bit higher in their debut senior season together. Also not being able to do a quad in the SP held Sasha down a bit. Anna too to be fair.

Zhenya was at a high level her first season with BO. It's just she set an incredibly high level at TT that was virtually impossible to reach again.

Also I always get a kick out of people when they say why can't EG raise a mature skater and my reply always is did anybody watch Evgenia in 2017 or 2018 she was 18 skating like a mature 25 year old woman on a still recovering foot? I thought Zhenyas performances at the Olympics were heroic gold or not. That Alina won the gold never took any respect away from what Zhenya did. I only wish Russia won the team gold. Zhenya deserved an Olympic gold too.

As for Aliona she was the most mature 16 year old skater ever and she became that. at TT.

 

[[email protected]]

Actually I don't really think Sasha got worse after leaving TT. She always had her ups and downs and the quads are still there. Agree with the poster above, skaters usually have a declined form by the time they leave. There is a significant gap from last competition of one season to the first of other, so it's not correct to judge work of coaching teams like that. We will never know what would've happened if Aliona or Evgenia never left Tutberidze or if Alina left after her first or second season.

So far Sasha is the only TT lady to ever leave and keep her performance level at or close to where it was when she was at TT.

Sasha is a difficult case for conclusions. We don't know how the ulimate showdown among 3A would go if the worlds weren't cancelled.

But without any proof I believe that she could do better with TT than she is doing now. With Eteri Sasha tried to jump 5 quads. She was the main candidate for gold in any competition that she entered. Gold was always hers to lose so that her last year loss to Anna was like a cold shower. I was flying back with the team and Sasha looked embarassed.

This year it is Anna's gold to lose. That's a big difference no matter what real and imaginary improvements one sees in Sasha's skating.

 

[[email protected]]

Also I always get a kick out of people when they say why can't EG raise a mature skater and my reply always is did anybody watch Evgenia in 2017 or 2018 she was 18 skating like a mature 25 year old woman on a still recovering foot? I thought Zhenyas performances at the Olympics were heroic gold or not. That Alina won the gold never took any respect away from what Zhenya did. I only wish Russia won the team gold. Zhenya deserved an Olympic gold too.

As for Aliona she was the most mature 16 year old skater ever and she became that. at TT.

I wish that Kolyada did a 3Lz in the SP instead of his disastrous attempt on 4Lz. That poor decision was the key driver of Russia's loss. I was there and I was very depressed to see his meltdown. I think that he was very disappointed himself to drop the ball when it mattered most.

 

[LiamForeman]

Sasha was still scoring very high the issue was her two teammates were scoring a little bit higher in their debut senior season together.

Isn't that the ego problem that Tarakanova had which caused her to leave TT? She wanted to be the STAR and didn't like skating with all the Eteri girls that routinely beat her even when she was clean. She shoulda stayed. Look where she is now. Actually who even knows where she is now. Unwise choice.

 

[Shayuki]

And skaters are normaly at the the downfall already when they leave. Why is this being ignored? No matter if Yulia, Medvedeva or Trusova, they all already struggled when they were with Eteri. It's not something that startet miraculously AFTER leaving her. These skaters at least try to fix the issues and keep competing under another coach, while others stay and go down despite staying with Eteri. Let's remember Zagitova's last competition, where she ended on the last place, or where is Tursynbaeva? You can't claim this happend to them because they left TT, because they never did

Zagitova? Sure that's fine, although I'd say it has more to do with her lack of motivation(winning the Olympics and all). But why are you using Tursynbaeva as an example? Tursynbaeva had her most successful season in 2019 - even winning Worlds silver which is an achievement she never would even have dreamt of achieving - and then effectively retired due to recurring injuries from earlier. She's just about the last skater you should use as an example here, isn't she?

 

[ruga]

Isn't that the ego problem that Tarakanova had which caused her to leave TT? She wanted to be the STAR and didn't like skating with all the Eteri girls that routinely beat her even when she was clean. She shoulda stayed. Look where she is now. Actually who even knows where she is now. Unwise choice.

Tutberidze or any other coach never said why she left. Anastasia herself said that she wanted to leave figure skating in general, not her coaching team, but then decided to continue.