2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

Alina is the last champion of the pre-quad era. Anyone in her place would do the same after winning it all. She has not quit yet may be because of the contracts, may be because Eteri or someone convinced her to wait and see whether this quad era is going to stay or it was just a short burst by 2 kid-prodigies who would lose those quads as soon as puberty starts. Then all would turn to Alina and she would start preparing for her second Olympics. I think that the same logic has been true with Zhenya.

But as the time passed it is absolutely clear now that quadsters have come to stay. And Alina cannot compete with them under current system. Quadsters have made it impossible to see long-playing champions like Katarina, Irina or Michelle any more. Well, unless we see the first skater who can keep them well past puberty. Some people have issues with that - I don't. I am glad that there are new faces.

There is a meaningless discussion (for me) about the GOAT. It is meaningless because the sport has technically evolved - it is a different sport now. Anna, Sasha, Kamila would beat any of the former champions should they compete now. Including Alina.

If AZ got motivated I think she could compete with quadsters. If they fall and they almost always fall in the free skate from doing quads.

But let's forget about the clogged greens for a minute she could come back get into good form and still scored about 230 points. That would get her some podiums that would get her in the Grand Prix final that would get her more medals and EG would have a skater past the age of 18 who is mature.

I don't think she will come back but I hope she does. Alina can do what she wants. I mean if she was skating competitively the season I think she would have the inside track on a 3rd spot for worlds.

 

[Decoder]

Alina is the last champion of the pre-quad era. Anyone in her place would do the same after winning it all. She has not quit yet may be because of the contracts, may be because Eteri or someone convinced her to wait and see whether this quad era is going to stay or it was just a short burst by 2 kid-prodigies who would lose those quads as soon as puberty starts. Then all would turn to Alina and she would start preparing for her second Olympics. I think that the same logic has been true with Zhenya.

But as the time passed it is absolutely clear now that quadsters have come to stay. And Alina cannot compete with them under current system. Quadsters have made it impossible to see long-playing champions like Katarina, Irina or Michelle any more. Well, unless we see the first skater who can keep them well past puberty. Some people have issues with that - I don't. I am glad that there are new faces.

There is a meaningless discussion (for me) about the GOAT. It is meaningless because the sport has technically evolved - it is a different sport now. Anna, Sasha, Kamila would beat any of the former champions should they compete now. Including Alina.

I was thinking along a similar line: maybe Eteri had a strategic plan, to keep Alina in shape, in case the minimum age be raised to 19, and quadsters would be rare after that age? Haha, I know this is just a wild guess.

I am rewatching Alina's Olympic programs again, and I feel happiness, as always! I am thankful to the Russian girls and coaches for giving us so much to talk about in this thread.

 

[Amei]

If AZ got motivated I think she could compete with quadsters. If they fall and they almost always fall in the free skate from doing quads.

But let's forget about the clogged greens for a minute she could come back get into good form and still scored about 230 points. That would get her some podiums that would get her in the Grand Prix final that would get her more medals and EG would have a skater past the age of 18 who is mature.

I don't think she will come back but I hope she does. Alina can do what she wants. I mean if she was skating competitively the season I think she would have the inside track on a 3rd spot for worlds.

Where are you getting that the quadsters "almost always fall in the free skate from doing quads" because by my recollection this season Shcherbakova hasn't fallen on a quad - the worst she's done was a hand down at the Channel cup, last year she fell on 1 quad at the GPF and 1 at Europeans. Valieva this year has only fallen on 1 quad (and a messy landing on another) at her first cup event, last season she fell on 1 at JGP Russia. Trusova has fallen on more quads yes, but for the most part she's landing more than she's falling on in each competition, excluding GP Russia this year. And even if they fall on the quads, they are generally still scoring higher than clean Zagitova unless they have a complete meltdown, which only 1 of the 3 quadsters is susceptible of doing.

 

[DougDorsey]

Has it been confirmed that we won't be seeing Sofia Dzepka this season? Or is there still some chance of us seeing her?

Either way, was it ever revealed what her injury was? Is she at least back at training?

 

[Vandevska]

I think Kostornaia with solid triples is a safer bet than Tuktamysheva even without the 3A. We don't know how her form is though, so anything can happen.

Something more interesting for me is if Kamila is going to try the 4 salchow in the FS or if it's too early. They had posted the 3A and then she tried it at the second cup event she went to, and it took a couple of months to include the axel in the FS too, and it's pretty new, so they might not want to have her focus on 2 new elements in the FS.

 

[Skatesocs]

Something more interesting for me is if Kamila is going to try the 4 salchow in the FS or if it's too early. They had posted the 3A and then she tried it at the second cup event she went to, and it took a couple of months to include the axel in the FS too, and it's pretty new, so they might not want to have her focus on 2 new elements in the FS.

They'll definitely do the 3A in the SP, so what they might do in the LP (assuming they want to definitely attempt a 4S) is:

1. Remove the 3A, add the 4S
2. Remove a 4T, add a 4S

I do think they'll try to see what happens. I'd go with removing the 3A in the LP. SP 3A is very crucial no matter what because of the lead it gives, so they'll want to drill that + it will already give them an idea of how stable the 3A is currently for them. Putting the 4S in the LP will then give them an idea of the stability of both jumps, without overloading her LP layout. She can't go to worlds, so it doesn't really matter if she loses (not that she will, because her scores even with a fall will be very high). They'll be wanting to build a winning layout through next season, but not right now.

 

[ruga]

The best layout now for Kamila could be 4S, 4T, 3A. This layout would still keep the 2 quads+3A idea, but two different quads give bigger base value than a quad done twice. She has nothing to lose at Cup Final, so why not try out the new jump?

 

[Shayuki]

Kamila's best layout for the FS would indeed be 4S 4T 3A without repeating any of them, that way she doesn't have to include a very suboptimal +2T and can get a lot more points elsewhere.

 

[Skatesocs]

The best layout now for Kamila could be 4S, 4T, 3A. This layout would still keep the 2 quads+3A idea, but two different quads give bigger base value than a quad done twice. She has nothing to lose at Cup Final, so why not try out the new jump?

I wouldn't put two relatively new jumps into the layout yet, but it's whatever, I guess.

 

[Vilord]

Kamila's best layout for the FS would indeed be 4S 4T 3A without repeating any of them, that way she doesn't have to include a very suboptimal +2T and can get a lot more points elsewhere.

I think the best layout would be
3A
4S+3T
4T (oppertunity to ad +3T here if 4S fails)
3Lo
3Lz+3T
3F+Eu+3S
3Lz

I wouldn't put two relatively new jumps into the layout yet, but it's whatever, I guess.

I think this all depends on the stability in training of the 3A and 4S. We as fans have no way of knowing so all we can do is trust that TT knows what they are doing. If they feel like both 4S and 3A in the same program is to much of a gamble I would insted go for
4S
4T+2T
4T
2A
3Lz+3T
3F+Eu+3S
3Lz

Edit: personally I would choose the first layout because I feel like with neither Anna or Sasha here kamilla has nothing to loose and should just use this competition as practice for her new jumps. And if it doesnt go according to plan and she falls on both it shouldnt hurt her with her two phenomenal performances of RusNats and Channel 1 cup behind her.

 

[Skatesocs]

4S
4T+2T
4T
2A
3Lz+3T
3F+Eu+3S
3Lz

Yes, this is exactly the layout I'd go for. But again, it really doesn't matter. Valieva with a fall will win. Valieva with two falls might still win. And that's not even getting to the fact that it doesn't even matter if she doesn't win this thing, lol.

 

[Dawn825]

4S+3T

This seems very unlikely, considering it would be her first attempt at the 4S

 

[Skatesocs]

^If she goes with the Vilord two quads + 3A suggestion, she could just be backloading two 3Lz+3Ts.

 

[Vilord]

This seems very unlikely, considering it would be her first attempt at the 4S

Which is why I added the note that if she doesnt hit the 4S she can just tag the +3T on to the 4T (or the 3Lo or last 3Lz for that matter) The layout I described gives a lot of leaway with the combinations which is good when trying new jumps.

 

[Vilord]

^If she goes with the Vilord two quads + 3A suggestion, she could just be backloading two 3Lz+3Ts.

Considering Valieva have sometimes had issues on 2nd half 3Lzs I would personally keep one +3T in the first half but it would be a cool layout

 

[Shayuki]

I think the best layout would be
3A
4S+3T
4T (oppertunity to ad +3T here if 4S fails)
3Lo
3Lz+3T
3F+Eu+3S
3Lz

But why would this be best, exactly? She could just do the +3T on the second Lutz on the other half rather than on the 4S, and she'd get bonus points on it. Literally no reason to do the +3T on a quad.

She could also do it on the 3Lo if you think her Lutz has issues.

 

[eterialskating]

But why would this be best, exactly? She could just do the +3T on the second Lutz on the other half rather than on the 4S, and she'd get bonus points on it. Literally no reason to do the +3T on a quad.

She could also do it on the 3Lo if you think her Lutz has issues.

I don't think I've even seen her do 4T-3T much less adding it to a new quad. Learning 4S freed her from doing a 4T-2T combo. My layout would be 3A 4S 4T 3Lz-3T // 3Lz-Eu-3S 3F-3T 3Lo.

 

[Novalis]

I don't think I've even seen her do 4T-3T

There are a more than one practise videos where she does this. It's no biggie.

For Russian Cup Final I hope for the one with 3A, 4S and 4T-3T as the first three passages, after that, normally. For next season, I want to see 4T in the second half and 3 quads + 3A in total in the free. The short is already as good as it can be (okay, a loop could be added as the combo second jump, but whatever).

 

[Vilord]

But why would this be best, exactly? She could just do the +3T on the second Lutz on the other half rather than on the 4S, and she'd get bonus points on it. Literally no reason to do the +3T on a quad.

She could also do it on the 3Lo if you think her Lutz has issues.

Well. Honestly I dont think it matters to much where you put the +3T in the first half of the programs. My main motivation for not backloading all the combos is risk. If you miss one of the 3Lzs or the 3F in the 2nd half you miss the oppertunity to do the combo all together. If you use this tactic all 2nd half jumps must be super solid (99/100 level solid). Valieva has earlier in this season but also if Im not mistaken a few times last season had issues with 3Lzs in 2nd half (fall/ step out/ poor landings) and therefore its good to have the backup 3Lz at the end.

As I understand it most skaters struggle with 3Lo+3T its apparently something about the 3Lo that makes +3T combos difficult which is why we allmost never see them. This was the motivation for not putting the +3T here.

I debated putting the +3T on the 3A but since the short requires a solo 3A my thought was that it would be easier to have the same element in the free to minimize the number of ultra-C combos you need to practice.

Then we have the two quads left. Normally skaters choose to put their +3T combo on the first jump so that there is a chance to "repair the damage" by adding the +3T combo to the 2nd quad in case the first one has a bad landing etc.

I would also say that having a quad+tripple combo in the begining is a wow factor (even more so than stand alone quads) to engage the audience more even if it would be mathematicaly the same to 3Lo+3T which would be unusual but probably not particularly spectacular.

Remember that this is just my opinion and in the end its not mine (or anyone else on this forum) but Valievas and TTs opinion that matters.

 

[Novalis]

As I understand it most skaters struggle with 3Lo+3T its apparently something about the 3Lo that makes +3T combos difficult which is why we allmost never see them. This was the motivation for not putting the +3T here.

It's the fact that it's difficult to come out of 3Lo with good speed.