2021 Worlds are still on

[Winnie_20]

Its not that people know something that you don't, its that they FEEL something that you don't, and they feel fear.

Yeah, and that’s fair enough. Still, I doubt ISU and Sweden are gonna be swayed by a petition based on feelings that the protocols are insufficient... The ISU has experience in their pockets. That’s likely gonna weigh more.

I guess there is just no easy answer. I wish them luck with the petition, but considering the other events still taking place before Worlds (inc Worlds short track!), I think the ISU are just going to go on their own experiences so far and see what happens at the upcoming events. Plenty of time to sharpen the rules still if necessary.

I think it will be very good to keep a close eye on the other ISU events.

 

[el henry]

Its not that people know something that you don't, its that they FEEL something that you don't, and they feel fear.

I don't feel "fear". I could say the same that people who insist on acting as though any precaution issued by the ISU is adequate for a pandemic feel "fear" that they might possibly need to restrict their lives or act in a way they don't want to act. They ignore the seriousness because they FEEL fear of a restricted lifestyle.

I do feel as though with a worldwide pandemic, a new strain, now is not the time to experiment. But IF there is serious enforcement, of proper mask wearing, of staying inside the bubble, of one strike and you're out, well, then, I'll be impressed,

I hope they are not too fearful to aggressively enforce the measures needed.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

I have a feeling that this whole 24 hour quarantine and loose restriction thing is going to be tightened the minute word comes out that Yuzuru Hanyu is concerned/considering withdrawal

 

[karne]

I’m hoping for an explanation as to how is Worlds any different, read, less safe, than the speed skating? Or the Challenge Cup?
Why are people having such an issue with Worlds, when the ISU has already proven it can be done safely, and there are other figure skating events with MANY skaters (actually that Tallink thing is happening right now)?

What makes Worlds so special that it shouldn’t go ahead, but it’s fine for other events to take place? Surely it’s not because there are better skaters there? Last I checked, a virus really doesn’t distinguish between people based on their skating skills...

So why then? Surely the same kind of protocols are in place at ISU events?

One word answer:

SWEDEN.

Sweden's response to the pandemic has been absolutely appalling from the start, and they're only very slowly fixing that. Add the ISU's lax protocols and the inclusion of a large party of the Russian team who have proven time and again they cannot be trusted to follow the most basic protocol...

Or it’s because there will be, dare I say it, Russian skaters and company at Worlds. But they’ll be at CC, too, and I’m not hearing a peep out of anybody there. ;-/

The size of the Russian delegation at Worlds will be much, much larger than at Challenge Cup and will contain people who have already proven they cannot be trusted.

And you can dare say it, I've been quite vocal that I don't think the Russians should be allowed to attend if this unwisely goes ahead. The attitude is deeper than fed-deep, and it's quite unfair to the other skaters to risk exposure because another team thinks rules don't apply to them.

I think the Covid measures of ALL competitions should be strict. However, I am more worried about Worlds because Olympics spots are on the line. Even if some skaters have concerns, they may be pressured by their fed to skate and earn the spots. While in CC, the stakes are lower and the skaters can (I hope) choose if they want to go themselves.

This is a very important point, and why the ISU needed to come up with an alternative.

The ISU revised their Covid guidelines yesterday - https://t.co/VbJl9bVZDJ?amp=1

The changes all seem positive to me.

Quick recap of new changes in ISU procedures:
Masks must now be worn in k&c, green room, during press conferences/interviews and the medal ceremonies
During medal ceremony, skaters will have to get medals, they will not be placed around necks
Air purifiers in dressing rooms & warm-up area, as well as in other commonly used spaces
Sanitization of physical therapy rooms
Mixed zones, press conferences, meetings, and interviews will all be virtual

Thumbs up from me!

The fact that none of that was already in place exactly proves the point of those of us that think this should be cancelled!

This is the MOST BASIC STUFF that should have been there from the START! The fact that it has only been introduced now tells us exactly how seriously the ISU is taking this!

Recommend ... meaning "not required"?

Recommended, not required...the ISU threw their spine out...

or s--- all over Russians for not behaving in accordance with, say, Canada's or their own personal guidelines and restrictions.

The fact that so many Russians have got COVID (don't forget to include those who had "pneumonia", which we know is a lie to cover up COVID) maybe proves that people being angry with them were right, don't you think?

The Russians can't be trusted. They were allowed to have a GP and turned it into a super-spreader. They cannot be trusted at Worlds. And other skaters from other countries should not have to put their own health at risk just to stroke the ego of a team who seems to think rules don't apply to them.

And yes, I know there is a pandemic out there, I don't think it's made up, I wear my mask etc. But I'd still go.

Well, by wearing your mask you immediately proved yourself more sensible than three quarters of the Russian skating team.

 

[FayD]

I have a feeling that this whole 24 hour quarantine and loose restriction thing is going to be tightened the minute word comes out that Yuzuru Hanyu is concerned/considering withdrawal

Yuzuru is just a skater, he has no power or influence over the ISU. He has been voicing concerns all season and withdrew the GP series, none of this stopped the ISU from going forward with the GP and also didn't stop JSF from holding NHK and JNats with an audience. Oh, and he's not going to withdraw from Worlds with Olympic spots on the line.

Anyway, it seems like the situation in Sweden is pretty bad and from what I read, they are considering a lockdown, so there's still a very big probability the government will cancel the event.

 

[Vandevska]

Official Worlds song now released

Circles and squares

by Eurovision stars
Måns Zelmerlöw & Polina Gagarina
(Måns won the Eurovision Song Contest 2015 for Sweden, and Polina came 2nd for Russia in the same contest)

Circles and Squares

Provided to YouTube by IngroovesCircles and Squares · Måns Zelmerlöw · Polina GagarinaCircles and Squares℗ 2021 Argle Bargle StudiosReleased on: 2021-02-19Co...

www.youtube.com

A bit too cheesy for me...but hey, we got a song!

Kill me now.

 

[Tutto]

Yuzuru is just a skater, he has no power or influence over the ISU. He has been voicing concerns all season and withdrew the GP series, none of this stopped the ISU from going forward with the GP and also didn't stop JSF from holding NHK and JNats with an audience. Oh, and he's not going to withdraw from Worlds with Olympic spots on the line.

Anyway, it seems like the situation in Sweden is pretty bad and from what I read, they are considering a lockdown, so there's still a very big probability the government will cancel the event.

Yes I heard that too on the news last night and my first thought was oh my God the Worlds!!
Would they consider postponing rather than cancelling I wonder?

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Here's a link to a new ISU document where they clarify several protocols/procedures if anyone's interested
https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...ze-an-isu-event-covid-19-august-31-final/file

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Yes I heard that too on the news last night and my first thought was oh my God the Worlds!!
Would they consider postponing rather than cancelling I wonder?

I don't think that's very viable. If anything it will be moved to another location, but then that would also be rather not so safe. And if they are to postpone in Sweden, then it will be not just a month or two, but at least 3. It's go ahead or cancelled.

Interesting point about the Russians and other non-compliant countries being banned. What do you all think of this?

I have a skating friend in Canada, says that when there is quarantine there are people who come to check on you to make sure you are doing it, you will get fined if you don't wear masks and keep large distancing, etc. We think that the Russians would climb out of their windows to go party if such a thing happened in Stockholm.

Btw i'm waiting for the moment the Russian team meets the Chinese http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13906244

 

[Gabby30]

One word answer:

SWEDEN.

Sweden's response to the pandemic has been absolutely appalling from the start, and they're only very slowly fixing that. Add the ISU's lax protocols and the inclusion of a large party of the Russian team who have proven time and again they cannot be trusted to follow the most basic protocol...

The size of the Russian delegation at Worlds will be much, much larger than at Challenge Cup and will contain people who have already proven they cannot be trusted.

And you can dare say it, I've been quite vocal that I don't think the Russians should be allowed to attend if this unwisely goes ahead. The attitude is deeper than fed-deep, and it's quite unfair to the other skaters to risk exposure because another team thinks rules don't apply to them.

This is a very important point, and why the ISU needed to come up with an alternative.


The fact that none of that was already in place exactly proves the point of those of us that think this should be cancelled!

This is the MOST BASIC STUFF that should have been there from the START! The fact that it has only been introduced now tells us exactly how seriously the ISU is taking this!

Recommended, not required...the ISU threw their spine out...

The fact that so many Russians have got COVID (don't forget to include those who had "pneumonia", which we know is a lie to cover up COVID) maybe proves that people being angry with them were right, don't you think?

The Russians can't be trusted. They were allowed to have a GP and turned it into a super-spreader. They cannot be trusted at Worlds. And other skaters from other countries should not have to put their own health at risk just to stroke the ego of a team who seems to think rules don't apply to them.

Well, by wearing your mask you immediately proved yourself more sensible than three quarters of the Russian skating team.

Yes, it's basic stuff, why would the ISU even NEED to mention these rules, when people/ skaters should already know all of this from the start? Oh, i forgot, it's the evil ISU, responsible for all problems in the world

 

[Winnie_20]

Yes, it's basic stuff, why would the ISU even NEED to mention these rules, when people/ skaters should already know all of this from the start? Oh, i forgot, it's the evil ISU, responsible for all problems in the world

And... on the flip side, we still have a month. Why should the ISU have everything perfectly worked out already? They have other concerns, too. They have a World championship Short Track to deal with, *before* the figure skating (also with Russian representation, btw).
Some of the safety details, I'm sure they'll continue to work and update them for the whole month to come, not in the last after basing them on the FS events that have taken place, the CC, and yes, the Worlds short track, too.

 

[Cutting the ice]

Most of the conversation here is about protocols to prevent infection and spread of COVID within the competition and that is a very necessary conversation.

But I believe we should be equally concerned about whether this Worlds would be a fair competition if it goes ahead as planned, given the constraints some skaters / countries have had to endure when attempting to train. Because Worlds is the qualifier for Olympic spots, it should be as much as possible - a fair competition. Skaters from countries that have instituted stricter protocols or higher infection rates should not be disadvantaged because they a) could not get sufficient / any international experience this season b) and more importantly could not get sufficient ice time (or ice at all) to train properly.

For that reason, I would be in favour of delaying Worlds until the early autumn when it might be more possible for skaters and associated staff to train and compete safely. At least by then, most skaters will have had the opportunity to get vaccinated without the need to queue jump in front of more high-risk individuals.

 

[ruga]

The problem with Worlds in autumn is that skaters would have to peak twice, if not three times next season - during Worlds, Olympics, and then some at Worlds again. This could be a fair qualification, but an absolute mess schedule wise. A better decision could be giving more importance to Nebelhorn - say, 10 spots given there instead of usual 4 or 6. But I believe ISU will revise qualification after feds confirm their participation in Worlds.

 

[[email protected]]

I agree that qualification for Olympics for those skaters who could not participate in the Worlds should not be limited just to this year worlds. If this is taken care of I see no point in cancelling the worlds just because there are certain circumstances with certain skaters. There are rules. Like there are rules to have the Worlds after the Olympics to obtain country's next year quotas. Stupid rules, indeed. Zhenya could not go in 2018 and Alina had to go despite her health issues. Would it be fair that having gold and silver Olympic medalists Russia would not get next year quotas even if no one would go to the worlds? I think, it would be unfair. But these are the rules. And Alina had to go and had to fight.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Look, Olympic qualification, and sports in general, are always unfair. Some have better genetics than others, some have personal issues, untimely injuries, and inherently, more resources than others. It's never going to be perfectly fair.

But in this case, many have been dealing with so much, and such a lack of training time, that it is unfair to the epic proportions. Some federations may not even be willing to send their skaters! Could they not host a virtual event?

 

[eaglehelang]

The protocols, guidelines are all well and good but regular testing still needs to be done. More so with the presence elite skaters who already have been infected(Russia). These are considered high risk group/high risk country.

Training & moving in a bubble, wearing masks, using sanitizers, social distancing is good but still need to test. Cos the athletes can still test positive after 7 days as has been proven in other sports(badminton).

There are people who follow the protocols meticulously & yet still get infected by co workers(workplace cluster). Because they work in a closed environment.


Some forumers might not be aware of how easily the virus can spread because their Health Ministry does not release details on Covid clusters. For those who do, we can see each cluster how it spreads from patient zero to X number of people. Whether the patient zero came from high risk states(states with high number of cases), etc.

 

[anonymoose_au]

It is indeed a big worry that there's no quarantine period at all. Even if skaters attempted to quarantine in their country of origin before leaving, unless they're taking a private jet to Sweden it's a waste of time. Although any team based in Europe could manage it I guess, if they travelled in a private bus to Sweden after quarantining at home.

But commercial planes are a big problem, at the Australian Open there were quite a few people who tested negative before arriving and after only to test positive a few days later. Fortunately the quarantine period kept the event safe, but had it been a Bubble of the type the ISU is planning it could have been a disaster.

If anything a lack of quarantine makes the Bubble dangerous, because it just one person tests positive everyone in their team and warm-up group would have been exposed. And with the Bubble teams will have spent all their time together....basically everyone on the same floor in the hotel will be a close contact.

I'm rather annoyed that the ISU didn't even try to assess the possibility of a virtual event. Sheer laziness if you ask me.

 

[Skatesocs]

Could they not host a virtual event?

There's been much discussion of virtual events on the forum, but tbh if anyone wanted it on an international stage, we would have had protocols for it a while back. It's not something you can come up with just for the biggest event of the season.

 

[ruga]

There are all kinds of video manipulation possible. It would be difficult but with some effort I believe it is possible to play pre recorded video as live. Also, not all skaters can get ice dedicated only to themselves at a certain time. Besides, timezones would make it impossible to stream it in real time. Camera quality is another issue - skaters can choose a specific angle in which their mistakes could not be checked. And what if there are technical problems when filming or streaming? ISU approved TES minimums by video, which is great, but qualification to Olympics and biggest event of the season simply can't be held that way.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

It is indeed a big worry that there's no quarantine period at all. Even if skaters attempted to quarantine in their country of origin before leaving, unless they're taking a private jet to Sweden it's a waste of time. Although any team based in Europe could manage it I guess, if they travelled in a private bus to Sweden after quarantining at home.

But commercial planes are a big problem, at the Australian Open there were quite a few people who tested negative before arriving and after only to test positive a few days later. Fortunately the quarantine period kept the event safe, but had it been a Bubble of the type the ISU is planning it could have been a disaster.

Wouldn't the planes be mostly empty because of international travel bans? Or maybe I'm just dreaming. But this is the one glaring issue with the bubble system.