2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Finley]

Agreed on Jordan (absolute legend and sport changer), but Messi is 'just' one of the best footballers in history and I think Alina is one of the best figure skaters in history as well. Alina won everything she possibly could, Messi doesn't have the most important title in his sport - World Championship, Alina left big impact by changing the rules of backloading jumps in the programs, Messi has longevity on his side obviously, but he had poor seasons as well. I personally think Ronaldinho Gaucho was much greater talent, innovator and most of all - a World Champion, same Pele and Maradona.
I think in female figure skating reality, which is incomparable to football, Alina did her best and can be compared to Messi as figures in their respective sports.

Mishin agreed. He compared Alina to Messi.

Professor on the VTsIOM poll results:

- For me, Alina has for a long time been not just a figure skater, - said Mishin. - She is also already a public person. She has an amazing capacity for work and is very talented. As a young lady, athlete and media personality, she appeals to me. I would put only one athlete ahead of her - Lionel Messi, who recently broke Pele's record. I understand that the rating consists of Russian athletes, but this is my opinion. She has no equal for a long time in the Russian media field.

 

[Finley]

I don't know if that's really what it was and I don't want to misrepresent! I just remember some survey of "the most admired athlete" and she ranked first. Now I should really see if I can find it...

Edit: well there's this, from our forum:

Alina Zagitova

While we are comparing the uncanny similarities between two of Russia's most successful athletes, I bring you another - One of Khabib's strongest qualities, and one that is often brought up in interviews with the people around him, is his humility. He always emphasizes the importance of staying...

www.goldenskate.com

But I can't find original sources.
Some kind soul from the RLT will be along soon to help out, maybe....

Jordan is a stretch but Alina's name can be found in the top 10 of these lists under names like Ovechkin, Khabib, Kovalchuk & Dzuba.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIgJmRfHg3G/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJI2_dIrBlE/

And there is this -

And once again, THIRD YEAR IN A ROW, Alina is named BEST FEMALE ATHLETE OF THE YEAR by the Russian people (VTsIOM yearly poll results were published today; Khabib is first with 10%, followed by Dzyuba, the football player, with 8%, and Alina, Alexandre Ovechkin and Daniil Medvedev (tennis) with 2% each.

From Khabib's Instagram. The list is in the second photo.

Today VTsIOM (All-Russian Public Opinion Research Center) has published the data of the national rating of the best sportsman in Russia!

It is one thing when you are recognized by experts, trainers, fighters and specialists, and another thing is the recognition of the People.
Thank you for being there ️
It would be almost impossible without you.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJHNF3nsCPx/

 

[Scott512]

This board has taken a kinder, more supportive tone recently and I'm into it

Let's see if it lasts if KV score 95 points in the SP at the Russian Cup Final.

 

[icybear]

Agreed on Jordan (absolute legend and sport changer), but Messi is 'just' one of the best footballers in history and I think Alina is one of the best figure skaters in history as well. Alina won everything she possibly could, Messi doesn't have the most important title in his sport - World Championship, Alina left big impact by changing the rules of backloading jumps in the programs, Messi has longevity on his side obviously, but he had poor seasons as well. I personally think Ronaldinho Gaucho was much greater talent, innovator and most of all - a World Champion, same Pele and Maradona.
I think in female figure skating reality, which is incomparable to football, Alina did her best and can be compared to Messi as figures in their respective sports.

Sorry but Alina is incomparable to Messi. Okay I give Alina the point for winning a grand slam which Messi doesnt have but he has multiple trophies of everything else in club football. Also changing rules because of your backloading isnt really a victorous feat. Nobody really remembers who Elaine Zayak is. Also you're bound to have some poor seasons when you've been playing for 17 senior seasons compared to skating for just 2 and half season. And the goal tally he gets in his "poor" season would be a dream tally for most top goalscorers. As for talent, most football experts would agree Messi is definitely the most talented. Tons of current and past footballers and coaches praises him. Is Alina one of the greatest talent in fs? In terms of artistry, I cant even say top 3 in the current field. And her tech has been well and truly surpassed by now.

 

[dhjh811]

Don't mean to be the sour-puss of the lovefest happening here, but Michael Jordan regarded as the greatest ever and the gold standard of his sport, because Jordan in his prime in today's game would still be the top athlete of his sport (I don't follow soccer/football so can't speak to Messi). Pick a 'prime' Zagitova performance against today's Russian ladies, she wouldn't be on the podium, much less the gold medal spot. Perhaps 'fame' wise she might be Jordan/Messi status (don't live in Russia so IDK), but untouchable in regards to their actual sport, her prime performance has already been surpassed.

Agreed. Which was why I was so shocked when reading that Alina is at that level in Russia. People who don't really follow football may not have a clear idea of his influence despite knowing his name, but Messi is actually worshipped across continents. He's arguably the greatest player ever across decades in the most popular sport, so it's not surprising. Same for Jordan, people who don't even follow basketball know him and his iconic shoe line. Alina may be loved, but I'll be shocked if she somehow ever reaches that level of prestige.

 

[dhjh811]

And why do you think Jordan/Messi prime performance is not surpassed today (or its going to be) by the younger athletes? Because Mbappe is already a better soccer player than Messi was in his age. And there are quite of them comparing to Michael. I'm pretty sure Lebron is a better basket player, just the game is/was different. I think all the new athletes in the world of sport will surpass the older ones in terms of an athletic performance. But some of the old records (defined by some exact number) may still stand, which is fine too.

He was at that level for well over a decade. It's a bit ridiculous to compare Messi eventually being surpassed at nearly age 34 (and still being much better than most footballers in his positionS) and Alina being surpassed now...

+Arguably, no one has surpassed Messi's performance at his peak years. Some may argue Ronaldinho showed more quality during his prime, but even that's debatable. Mbappe and Haaland are promising, but they will have to go a long way to even come close to Messi at his peak. Beyond stats, his technical ability and vision were of another level, and numerous then active and retired legends of the sport commented that he is the greatest player of all time.

 

[Finley]

Sorry but Alina is incomparable to Messi. Okay I give Alina the point for winning a grand slam which Messi doesnt have but he has multiple trophies of everything else in club football. Also changing rules because of your backloading isnt really a victorous feat. Nobody really remembers who Elaine Zayak is. Also you're bound to have some poor seasons when you've been playing for 17 senior seasons compared to skating for just 2 and half season. And the goal tally he gets in his "poor" season would be a dream tally for most top goalscorers. As for talent, most football experts would agree Messi is definitely the most talented. Tons of current and past footballers and coaches praises him. Is Alina one of the greatest talent in fs? In terms of artistry, I cant even say top 3 in the current field. And her tech has been well and truly surpassed by now.

Her tech has indeed been surpassed, but the original question was about the level of her popularity. Not her mastery of the technical aspect of her sport in comparison with Messi's.

Alina Zagitova is among the top 10 most discussed athletes in the social network "ok". She is the only sportswoman on the list.

https://twitter.com/teamzagitova/status/1336651744068177921

Top 10 Discussed Athletes of 2020 in OK:

1. Lionel Messi (football)
2. Artem Dzyuba (football)
3. Khabib Nurmagomedov (single combats)
4. Conor McGregor (single combats)
5. Cristiano Ronaldo (football)
6. Alexander Ovechkin (hockey)
7. Alexander Kokorin (football)
8 Neymar (football)
9. Alexander Loginov (biathlon)
10. Alina Zagitova (figure skating).

The research was carried out on the basis of the analysis of publications and comments of OK users in the open access. To assess the mention of events, phenomena and people, the total number of mentions of the event for the whole year and the bursts of activities on a certain topic, as well as the resonance of events in time, were taken into account, the press release notes.

https://sport24.ru/news/football/2020-1 ... -i-khabiba

From Jazz Up back in Dec. -

Just to show the level of popularity and public interest in anything to do with Alina: sports.ru, the most popular Russian sports portal, published some interesting statistics in Dec last year - and Alina related articles posted during last 3 years gathered just 300 less comments than articles on Leo Messi. Posted during last 10 years

 

[Finley]

Agreed. Which was why I was so shocked when reading that Alina is at that level in Russia. People who don't really follow football may not have a clear idea of his influence despite knowing his name, but Messi is actually worshipped across continents. He's arguably the greatest player ever across decades in the most popular sport, so it's not surprising. Same for Jordan, people who don't even follow basketball know him and his iconic shoe line. Alina may be loved, but I'll be shocked if she somehow ever reaches that level of prestige.

I look forward to you being shocked someday. But that will never happen. Figure Skating will never be as popular globally as football/soccer. But within her own country, considering she hasn't competed in over a year and suspended her career, her level of popularity is pretty good when compared to the most popular legends of Russian sports.

Looking at the media index numbers on the list Alina ranks among the top ten -

#1 is Khabib Nurmagomedov. (He lost his father to Covid, defended his title, retired, and started a new fight promotion among other things.)

#2 is Artem Dzuba. #3 is Korkorin.

Alina ranks 4th in IG followers among the top 10, behind Khabib, Ovechkin & Dzuba.

I think its worth pointing out that these are men in their 30's engaged in popular, financially lucrative sports for a number of years. Alina is 18 from the world of FS. Considered to be very much a 'niche' sport by most of the world. And she has achieved her success in a matter of 3-4 years if you count her victorious junior season.

Some interesting things in common that Alina shares with Khabib - Both are the reigning champions of their sport in their respective divisions. Both have suspended their careers; Alina, by taking a break, Khabib retired. Khabib still retains his title and will continue to do so until another title fight happens. Alina will hold hers until the next World FSC happens.

Alina did not have longevity but due to her achievements and her personal charisma she has more popularity in Russia than other skaters whose careers lasted twice as long. She may be retired but so is the #1 guy.

I don't think her popularity can be compared to Jordan or Tom Brady but she is up there somewhere. And she is only 18, who knows who she will turn out to be and how far she can go?

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[lopsilceci]

I don't think you can actually compare football/basketball stars to figure skating stars, since those sports couldn't be more different from each other in every possible way, but if the question is whether Alina is the most popular representative of her sport in Russia, then yes, definitely. And she's also one of the most popular russian athletes across all sports.

We could maybe compare what Alina represents for russian fs with what Yuna represents for South Korean fs, in terms of influence, media presence, popularity, interest and achieving the Super Slam, which will probably not happen again soon.

 

[dhjh811]

Hey, I hope to be shocked one day too. It would be amazing if not only Zagitova, but figure skating as a whole reached that level. But realistically speaking, she's not worshipped to the point that Messi is in Argentina. I don't even think that she comes close to Messi's status in Russia because Messi surely surpasses the athletes you listed in media index numbers and more. I do agree that Alina for Russia could be somewhat compared to Yuna for Korea.

+I'm saying this as a reply to what the original poster that first brought up Messi and Jordan asked about Alina having that same legendary status that they have in their respective countries. I would never think to compare these athletes otherwise. In terms of what they represent to their respective sports and countries, Messi is untouchable. But Alina has so much to be proud of and is beloved in Russia, nobody will argue against that.

 

[brakes]

In terms of what they represent to their respective sports and countries, Messi is untouchable. But Alina has so much to be proud of and is beloved in Russia, nobody will argue against that.

Wow, all I can say you're living the moment entirely too much. You do realize modern football has 150 years of history?
Are you familiar with a player named Diego Maradona, the world champion, who literally has a church in Argentina and is treated as a god there? Do you know what "hand of god" means? Do you know there are wayside shrines in Italian city of Napoli, where he played for a local club and won national championship? I'm not even his fan, but if Messi was half of a winner Maradona was, Argentina would've twice as much World Cups as it has now. I won't elaborate on pure football talent, let Ronaldinho's video speaks for itself.

 

[dhjh811]

Wow, all I can say you're living the moment entirely too much. You do realize modern football has 150 years of history?
Are you familiar with a player named Diego Maradona, the world champion, who literally has a church in Argentina and is treated as a god there? Do you know what "hand of god" means? Do you know there are wayside shrines in Italian city of Napoli, where he played for a local club and won national championship? I'm not even his fan, but if Messi was half of a winner Maradona was, Argentina would've twice as much World Cups as it has now. I won't elaborate on pure football talent, let Ronaldinho's video speaks for itself.

Yes, I've watched football for years, so obviously I know those footballers very well. I've even mentioned Ronaldinho in a previous comment too... I was speaking in terms of what Messi and Jordan represent to their sports and countries COMPARED to Alina, not compared to other athletes of their sports... And anyways, Messi is someone that people will consistently name as the greatest player of all time, or at least in their top 3 list, at the very LEAST top 5. I'm well aware of Maradona, thanks

Arguing that Maradonna was more revered than Messi or that Ronaldinho was more talented adds nothing to this discussion other than make it go off a tangent. I'm sure that for both claims, you can find many people who argue the opposite. The question being asked was whether Alina is to Russia what Messi and Jordan are to Argentina and the US, and people gave their two cents.

 

[colormyworld240]

Mishin agreed. He compared Alina to Messi.

Professor on the VTsIOM poll results:

- For me, Alina has for a long time been not just a figure skater, - said Mishin. - She is also already a public person. She has an amazing capacity for work and is very talented. As a young lady, athlete and media personality, she appeals to me. I would put only one athlete ahead of her - Lionel Messi, who recently broke Pele's record. I understand that the rating consists of Russian athletes, but this is my opinion. She has no equal for a long time in the Russian media field.

That's kind of Mishin.

But hard work and talent can be missed by even the best coaches. Alina actually went to Mishin first, before Eteri, didn't she? I think around the same time as Lozko. And Mishin rejected her.

It makes you wonder about the many kids who are rejected by Mishin/Eteri etc. who might've been Olympic champion if one of the coaches took them. Especially the "late bloomers" like Alina was. I wonder if we'll ever see another Olympic champion who didn't have their triples as a 12 year old.

 

[Finley]

I agree that no way is Alina at Messi levels. And realistically, when you compare what Football means to most of the world to what Figure Skating means to most of the world, she never will be. She could win every gold medal from now until the end of time and never achieve that level of hero worship. Two very different sports with two very different audiences.

On the plus side, that kind of worship can be scary and dangerous. It's a double edged sword and I personally think Alina is better off without it. This is just my opinion, but she seems to be at a manageable level of fame right now. Earning money, getting opportunities, name recognition, passionate fans, but she can still go to university and walk her dog without getting harassed.

I hope she has continued success in life, but not the kind that comes at too high of a price.

 

[Tonight's the Night]

Thank you, kind soul named Finley, for providing all that data. (Delicious, delicious data!) Those are some good metrics by which we can judge that Alina is perhaps the most popular figure skater (by the metrics provided) in Russia, but not necessarily the most popular athlete in general. Not sure what survey I had remembered seeing, but no matter.

By the way, who is this tennis player named Medvedev? I wonder if Alina has a longstanding rivalry with him. (OK, sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

[Tonight's the Night]

Just to be clear, the Russian Cup Final is being streamed on Channel One, right?

Here's a response from another thread:

Channel One already announced their schedule for those in Russia:

“Channel One presents broadcasts from the Final of the Russian Figure Skating Cup, which will be held in Moscow from February 27 to March 2 and after which the composition of the national team for the World Cup will be finally determined. Competitions for women and pair skating will be broadcast on television, and the entire tournament (including junior performances) will be available on the Channel One website.

TV broadcasts:
February 27 at 17:40, live from Moscow
Women. Couples. Short program

February 28 at 17:40, live from Moscow
Women. Couples. Free Skate”

Channel 1 in most, if not all cases, also provides streams for the rest of the world. Don't see why it would be different this time around.

I haven't seen a link yet.

 

[Finley]

Thank you, kind soul named Finley, for providing all that data. (Delicious, delicious data!) Those are some good metrics by which we can judge that Alina is perhaps the most popular figure skater (by the metrics provided) in Russia, but not necessarily the most popular athlete in general. Not sure what survey I had remembered seeing, but no matter.

By the way, who is this tennis player named Medvedev? I wonder if Alina has a longstanding rivalry with him. (OK, sorry, couldn't resist.)

You are very welcome.

I think it's a big leap for Alina to exceed the popularity of legends like Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Khabib. Hockey > Figure Skating in Russia.
Also, MMA > Figure Skating in the world. And these guys have been competing for a long time and achieving success and name recognition. But it is nice to see her name so high on these top 10 lists. She is the only woman, the only figure skater, the only person under 20 anywhere close to these sports idols.

She didn't drop off the radar after she announced her break from competition last season. And since she is more popular than ever despite not returning this season, it's safe to say her fame isn't dependent on continued sporting achievements. People are interested in her as a skater, but more importantly as a person, not just an athlete. It will be interesting to see where that takes her in life.

The way things are currently trending in Russian Ladies FS does not lend itself to career longevity. If you do not have a body type ideally suited to jumping then you have a problem. Puberty and genetics can complicate things and make it difficult, if not impossible, to compete at the highest possible level. And just because you can do what it takes to force your body into the 'optimal' form to attempt quad jumps doesn't mean you should. You may have solved one problem by creating another.

Alina's senior competitive career lasted two and a half seasons but she made it count. Sometimes you only get one chance at something. Swing and don't miss. She did that and put her name in the history books.

Daniil Medvedev is a great tennis player, but he just lost to Djokovic at the Aus. Open. Poor Guy.

 

[FelineFairy]

The question being asked was whether Alina is to Russia what Messi and Jordan are to Argentina and the US, and people gave their two cents.

Absolutely not. Alina is the most popular female athlete at present in Russia but way behind those on top according to the poll. Even Khabib and Dzyuba who are first and second can not be compared to the God-like status of Messi and Jordan respectively among fans in Argentina and the USA, which is is something else.

She has no equal for a long time in the Russian media field.

This is where the stress is in Mishin's words: he praised Alina first and foremost as a media person.

Alina's popularity is not only well-deserved, based on objective data - her achievements and attractiveness, but also, on the other hand, media interest was based on the drama of 2018 and the ensuing controversy which has been happily used by media ever after. The latter is still a welcome topic for the media: we've had a proof in the 1st Channel Cup.

 

[JazzUp]

Alina is perhaps the most popular figure skater (by the metrics provided) in Russia, but not necessarily the most popular athlete in general.

but she is - according to VTsIOM polls (and MatchTV), Alina is the most popular female athlete, three years in a row.

 

[starlight97]

I didn't mean to unleash this kind of discussion haha.
I simply said it appears to me Alina is the most popular female skater currently, besides Yuna, in spite of how everyone favored Medvedeva over her in 2018.

Of course she cannot possibly be compared to people like Messi or Ronaldo Not even Yuzuru can. They are multi millionaires. Then have fan merch. They are international celebrities. Go anywhere in the world and people know those names. Ask someone on the street outside of Russia about Alina Zagitova, or any skater, and they'll have never heard of them. Figure skating is not a popular sport and never will be.
Russia and Japan are the best we can do, the rest of the world doesn't care really.