2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[chasingneverland]

Who would've thought Maiia could beat Daria, let alone win the free skate in a competition with Kamila, Liza, Alena, and Daria. Good for her, hopefully she got a huge confidence boost for next season. It's always nice to see to come together for someone struggle. It reminds me of Alina's SP in the Olympic season.

I mean it was always a possibility. Maiia's tech is higher than Daria and Daria's always needed mistakes from the others to place ahead of them..

 

[colormyworld240]

Perhaps. Yet, Sasha Cohen for all her balletic prowess did not possess the 10th of Aliona's mastering of the blade.

The skater who is closest to Sasha Cohen today is Anna Shcherbakova. Both have amazing innate musicality, performance ability, and flexibility. Both have skating skills as their weakness. And they're both my favourites.

 

[Amei]

Saying there is no uninjured skater is very simplistic. Aliona struggled enough that she lost her 3A at Sambo and none of her jumps are the same, even while everyone else was regaining their quads/3As. Unless Aliona is uniquely bad and unmotivated, which some people probably convinced themselves of, most likely there are external factors injury/puberty that have severely affected her in a way others haven't been.

I think that's a mischaracterization, she lost the triple axel due to the Covid layoff that occurred that took them off the ice.

Yes they have to make things tougher for KV but not today. I wanted another clean competition from Kamila. I think she's ahead of where Anna and Sasha were at 14 almost 15. But the competition is fierce. No one knows what's going to happen next season and that's part of the excitement and that's part of the uneasiness and then we still have coronavirus to think about,

So when? As of right now next season is still going to be the Olympic season and while Valieva's number 1 priority is getting on the team I think she wants to win gold. She's going to need to increase her FS layout because her quads are not as high valued as what Shcherbakova or Trusova can do. Today is possibly the only meaningless competition for the next year for her and considering her top competition wasn't here it made it the perfect opportunity to make the layout more competitive.

 

[colormyworld240]

I mean it was always a possibility. Maiia's tech is higher than Daria and Daria's always needed mistakes from the others to place ahead of them..

Except planned layout doesn't mean anything, execution is what matters. It was expected that Daria would be ahead based on how they normally skate (and also that Maiia has never beat her until today). Of course everyone knows Maiia's BV is higher, but that never helped her before.

 

[chasingneverland]

Yes they have to make things tougher for KV but not today. I wanted another clean competition from Kamila. I think she's ahead of where Anna and Sasha were at 14 almost 15. But the competition is fierce. No one knows what's going to happen next season and that's part of the excitement and that's part of the uneasiness and then we still have coronavirus to think about,

Kamila didn't necessarily need another clean competition here. She skated everything she's skated before perfectly. Her mistakes were on new things. Yes, she fell on her second 4T but she's never backloaded that before.

She's arguably ahead of where they were last year too. Anna and Sasha weren't clean last year either..

 

[chasingneverland]

Except planned layout doesn't mean anything, execution is what matters. It was expected that Daria would be ahead based on how they normally skate (and also that Maiia has never beat her until today). Of course everyone knows Maiia's BV is higher, but that never helped her before.

That's the point of a planned layout and why quads are risky...(or any jump above a double in some cases.) And Daria wasn't clean before this year anyway and she wasn't clean here either.

 

[RatedPG]

For me the highlight of the competition besides Maia, was Anna Frolova. Last year, at Nationals, she placed in 6th place overall. She really had a redemption skate today as in this was her best back to back performance. I thought the judges would put her below Aliona, and was so happy that they put her in the correct position, at 5th place. She is the best coming up junior outside the Eteri girls. With this performance, she really could be next in line for a Grand Prix Senior spot next year, if someone retires or gets injured. It would be lovely to see her get a chance at a Senior International competition. I was overall sad that Ksenia, last years 5th place finisher, wasn’t here. I think she could have challenged Elizaveta for that third spot this year. If only her year didn’t turn out the way it did. Anyways, congrats to the wonderful Elizaveta. I can’t wait to see her at Worlds.

 

[colormyworld240]

That's the point of a planned layout and why quads are risky...(or any jump above a double in some cases.) And Daria wasn't clean before this year anyway and she wasn't clean here either.

None of this has anything to do with what I said, though. Of course quads are risky, and of course Maiia had 2 planned, I think this is common knowledge. I said Maiia winning the FS was a huge surprise (as was being over Daria overall). Because it's never happened. Do you think it wasn't a surprise, and you predicted Maiia would win the free skate here?

 

[chasingneverland]

None of this has anything to do with what I said, though. Of course quads are risky, and of course Maiia had 2 planned, I think this is common knowledge. I said Maiia winning the FS was a huge surprise (as was being over Daria overall). Because it's never happened. Do you think it wasn't a surprise, and you predicted Maiia would win the free skate here?

No. But I knew Maiia would be clean soon. She wouldn't be trying if she couldn't do it in practice..Eteri would NEVER let her. I also knew if she was she would beat Daria.

I didn't expect her to with the FS - but as soon as I heard Kamila was going to try her 4S I knew there was a not insignificant chance. Because it would mean everything would be new and different and thus there was a higher chance of mistakes. She's a younger competitor too so there's a higher chance earlier mistakes would throw her too and lead to more. Kamila has only landed her two quad program cleanly once - this season. Since then she's added a 3A in both the SP and the FS, added a 4S, changed a 4T-2T to a 4T-eu-3S, and backloaded a 4T (the last 3 things she's never attempted at all before much less all three at once..)

It wasn't a huge surprise....

 

[[email protected]]

So much bile of course conveniently forgetting Valieva had a wonderful SP far ahead of her competitors. The girl still managed to land a beautiful 3A and 2 3-3 combo whilst trying an ambitious 3 quad program. That's still better than anything that's seen outside Russia. There is no double standards here only people who are totally blinded by their hate they can't even do basic scoring.

There are just a couple of trolls left here. And we need them to make life more entertaining.

 

[colormyworld240]

Best 14 year old girl until Akatieva comes along, who will be the best 14 year old until the one after her arrives.

Valieva is good, great even, in many ways. But people used to say the same about the 3A and look where we are now. Utterly outclassed after they were the “ultimate best, historic trio, greatest rivalry FS had ever seen“ just last year.

It's kind of the point of sports, though. No one is the best forever. Then you'd have a pre-determined winner at every competition because they're "the best". What's exciting is that they actually have to earn it each time.

Plus, skaters being beaten eventually doesn't mean they're not great. It doesn't make them over, expired, or forgotten; they still have all their accomplishments. They're just not the only ones who will ever have them. It's normal, it happens to everyone.

 

[chasingneverland]

It's kind of the point of sports, though. No one is the best forever. Then you'd have a pre-determined winner at every competition because they're "the best". What's exciting is that they actually have to earn it each time.

Plus, skaters being beaten eventually doesn't mean they're not great. It doesn't make them over, expired, or forgotten; they still have all their accomplishments. They're just not the only ones who will ever have them. It's normal, it happens to everyone.

It's also a SPORT.

 

[[email protected]]

Precisely my point. PhD in electronics is very admirable indeed. But and here it is - falling on ice, although doesn't cancel the performance in total, decreases the enjoinment from it to a considerable degree. I would have deducted many more points for such a folly, which in turn is bound to encourage skaters to produce a cleaner skate. IMO.

We discussed this millions times. The point is to find the balance. If falls, say, mean 0 points for a jump the risk will be too high. Hence, the sport will be in the stalemate with no progress. What they did some time ago was reducing the base value of quads with +-5 GOE system. Now a perfect triple jump with +5 GOE is worth more than a quad with a fall which is 0.5BV - 1. One should also remember that quads consume a lot of stamina especially quads with falls (there is the aspect of pain as well). All in all, I believe that the math is fair. And the only truth that is left is that today more and more Russian skaters land quads at competitions and even more during practice. And outside Russia we saw just one clean 4S by Rika and some pre-puberty quads by Alysa. Some people push the idea that it gives "unfair advantage" to our skaters.

I won't wish them good luck in their "crusade". Moreover, I hope that quads will be allowed in SP, the sooner the better.

 

[alexocfp]

Hope someome gives Sophia a few hugs. She unfortunately is one of the sad stories coming out of today.

The happy go lucky, effervescent, and jovial Sophia has been snatched and in her place is a morose shell of the original.

Hope it turns around soon.

 

[Scott512]

I think that's a mischaracterization, she lost the triple axel due to the Covid layoff that occurred that took them off the ice.



So when? As of right now next season is still going to be the Olympic season and while Valieva's number 1 priority is getting on the team I think she wants to win gold. She's going to need to increase her FS layout because her quads are not as high valued as what Shcherbakova or Trusova can do. Today is possibly the only meaningless competition for the next year for her and considering her top competition wasn't here it made it the perfect opportunity to make the layout more competitive.

I would have preferred next season so she could work on all these other things in the offseason. Kamila didn't seem to mind a bit and she seemed to enjoy trying different things are harder program too. I don't I doubt they know what they're doing at TT.

But what is Anna thinking when they're adding all these extras into KVs free skate? Anya has been the Phenom that has stayed there for 13 years. She is finally the number one girl after Sasha and aliona left. But Milla is coming.

 

[Scott512]

Hope someome gives Sophia a few hugs. She unfortunately is one of the sad stories coming out of today.

The happy go lucky, effervescent, and jovial Sophia has been snatched and in her place is a morose shell of the original.

Hope it turns around soon.

Who may I ask are you talkin about? St Pete Sofia?

 

[[email protected]]

Best 14 year old girl until Akatieva comes along, who will be the best 14 year old until the one after her arrives.

Valieva is good, great even, in many ways. But people used to say the same about the 3A and look where we are now. Utterly outclassed after they were the “ultimate best, historic trio, greatest rivalry FS had ever seen“ just last year.

So, what's wrong with new skaters being better? It cannot last forever. As of now Kamila is the best skater ever entering the ice. She combines the feather like emotional style which gives you shivers same as Yulia and Zhenya did with Yulia's like crazy extensions with 3As and quads. There have not being a skater like this before. She can be beaten only by the same type of skater with heavy quads: 4Lz and 4F. In men it's the opposite. Clean Nathan can be beaten only by a man who is capable of the same jump content but who is a better skater. Those skaters can appear or they won't. In the latter case we shall say that the sky was reached. In the former - it means that the race is still on.

 

[alexocfp]

Who may I ask are you talkin about? St Pete Sofia?

Yes, Samodurova

 

[Fluture]

It's kind of the point of sports, though. No one is the best forever. Then you'd have a pre-determined winner at every competition because they're "the best". What's exciting is that they actually have to earn it each time.

Plus, skaters being beaten eventually doesn't mean they're not great. It doesn't make them over, expired, or forgotten; they still have all their accomplishments. They're just not the only ones who will ever have them. It's normal, it happens to everyone.

Yeah, I do know how sports work. I don’t want unbeatable champions - as much as I‘m an Evgenia fan and thus biased, I can imagine that those two years of her domination were a very boring time for other FS fans. And that’s not the point either. Tell me any other discipline where 17 year olds are considered “veterans“ and “old“, where your life cycle at the top is at best 3 years. Your usage of the word ”forever“ is especially noteworthy and kind of hilarious there. Maybe rhythmic gymnastics? From what I‘ve seen, the system there is similar. But other than that?

And like I said, it‘s not about having a predetermined winner either. Long lasting rivalries, where anyone can get the gold on any given day, are excting and good for a sport. But what we‘re seeing now, isn‘t that. Instead, we‘re going through an ever changing crop of talented youngsters who have a year where they‘ll be the “best 14-15 year old ever and “game-changing, historic etc.“ until there‘s a new shiny kid on the block. I’ve not been a skating fan for long but in my time, we’ve already gone through four generations of Russian ladies. Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva, Zagitova, 3A. We‘re now at the end of the 3A cycle, beginning Valieva and co. Is that the essence of sport? Children fighting it out, until they’re replaced with even younger children, a few adults scattered in between? Maybe so.

And yes, I‘m bitter. The sport I fell in love with (was an Eteri skater, by the way, who made that happen) is changing and I, personally, do not like what I‘m seeing whatsoever. And for clarification: it‘s not about athletes being pushed out of the top, that‘s normal, that‘s natural. It’s about the time line. It’s also not about 15 year olds competing and winning - this has always happened. But it is about 15 being the default peak age, with everyone older having to fight their very hardest to even have a shot. For me, it‘s not progress, I don‘t find it normal. Everyone has their own definition, though, I realise that there are others who like these changes. And my bitterness will only last so long as to I let go of the rest of my emotional attachment and find a sport/discipline better suited to my tastes. Or miraculously fall back in love with it again. Sasha, at the very least, seems to be intent on staying for at least two Olympic cycles. Maybe she can do it. Let‘s see.

 

[[email protected]]

I know it won't happen. But I really hope this is the last time we see skaters not completely recovered and barely making it through their programs skating because they feel like they have to. (Although with world's I still think we see it at least once more.)

They're all courageous but I don't want to see Sasha, Liza, Anna, and Aliona skate like this again... Unfortunately I think precedent has been set - and really has been set forever - Evgenia,etc? but...

This will never happen. Like Eminem said about "one shot" there are not that many of those. And you cannot match the peak of your condition with those shots. It was always like this. I can't remember who it was but many years and even decades ago there was a case when Russian skaters won either Olympics or worlds with very high fever.