2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[chasingneverland]

If Sasha goes for four quads and lands 3 watch out! Her friendship with Anna will be tested.

First of all, Anna's always been gracious when she doesn't win. And she's been beaten before - Alena has beaten her twice in international competition as seniors. (They don't seem to be mortal enemies - in fact they were just recently photographed smiling together.) Surely she knows better than anyone what Sasha is capable of, considering she's seen her land her quads in practice before - or did you forget that they trained together from 2016 until this year and in fact learned their quads together, constantly pushing each other. (She's certainly watched Sasha practice for 4/5 quad programs and land them all - even before competitions where she's also competing.) And she's definitely skated in competitions where she's known Sasha will go for a 3A and 4 quads before (Euros for one).

Second of all, Sasha has gone for 4 quads and landed 3 of them internationally before at an ISU event. (Besides her Japan Open event where she went for 4 and landed 4 although not cleanly, scoring a 160.) She's scored a 166 at Skate Canada, where she went for 4 and rotated all 4, although she did fall on her 4S. So Sasha going for 4 quads and landing 3 will certainly not be a new concept for Anna.

Finally, Anna has scored a 162 internationally while going for 3 and landing 2, falling on her 4F, although she also did under-rotate one of her 4Lz. And she lost about 6 points merely by not rotating the second 4Lz, even though she didn't fall on it. (She's scored almost 14.8 points on a 4Lz before - 14.79 at Skate America - and she only got a 8.81 here.) (If she was clean on the second 4Lz even if she fell on the 4F (provided she rotated it) she'd be at around 167/168.)

And while comparing scores between events is questionable, it's not a given that even if Sasha goes for 4 and lands three than she'll beat Anna even with Anna "only" going for 3, even if neither are clean - although the 3A in the SP will certainly play a role. I certainly would not be surprised if Sasha does go for 4 quads here, and I highly doubt Anna would be either. I doubt Sasha going for 4 and landing 3 would come as a shock to Anna. Sasha will certainly want to go for 4 quads - it'll depend on her health (injury) and the need to balance consistency with difficulty.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I feel like the RusFed probably made a lot of the arrangements and probably does all takes care of most of the registrations anyway. And it was more just make sure everyone was registered and the ISU doesn't actually care as long as there is a 1-1 skater coach ratio and each skater has a coach named.

I mean in the past there was one competition where Eteri had a literal army because there were so many of her skaters registered (so it's not exactly new to not bring your actual coach haha.)

And besides I think RusFed is going to go with a best for everyone policy.

Oh so I guess Eteri's team was the only one who needed another spot? I guess the rules do only say that its one coach per skater and not one coach per their own club's skaters so maybe it is totally within rules.

 

[chasingneverland]

Oh so I guess Eteri's team was the only one who needed another spot? I guess the rules do only say that its one coach per skater and not one coach per their own club's skaters so maybe it is totally within rules.

I mean Anna can probably only have one person (mostly likely Eteri) at the boards and kiss and cry with her. But they might have thought it was best to bring the whole team, since there was space?

It is kinda funny to think that if this was in place last year the 3A would have still had their entire team there, all the time (plus probably brought a long a personal trainer haha or someone because Moirisi.) (Which would have been kinda an advantage.)

 

[Amei]

I would think that Sasha might go for 4 quads, and land at least 3 of them cleanly (obviously depending on the state of her injury).
At cup stages, she first went for 3 quads, landed 2, on the following stage she went for 4 and landed 3. So having room for error might be able to help her psychologically. Seeing how she attempted 3 at 1TV cup, I would think she’s preparing for skating either that content or upgrading with 1 more quad.

While I do think they are going to up her technical difficulty I don't agree with the idea that 'room for error' helps her psychologically, that was how she was going into competitions all last season, that she had so many quads she could afford errors - that worked okay at her solo GP events but once she got to the Final she couldn't seem to stop at 1 mistake it was multiple mistakes and with the exception of Nationals this year it's been the same way - her FS's have had multiple mistakes.

Anna is a question mark for me, I would think they will go for a safe option of 2 quads and bet on consistency.

The only thing that would surprise me about Shcherbakova is if she stuck with the same layout from nationals/channel 1, I think she either upgrades to 3 quads and adds a combination or sticks 2 and upgrades 1 to a combination.

 

[Scott512]

Oh so I guess Eteri's team was the only one who needed another spot? I guess the rules do only say that its one coach per skater and not one coach per their own club's skaters so maybe it is totally within rules.

It is.

 

[Scott512]

First of all, Anna's always been gracious when she doesn't win. And she's been beaten before - Alena has beaten her twice in international competition as seniors. (They don't seem to be mortal enemies - in fact they were just recently photographed smiling together.) Surely she knows better than anyone what Sasha is capable of, considering she's seen her land her quads in practice before - or did you forget that they trained together from 2016 until this year and in fact learned their quads together, constantly pushing each other. (She's certainly watched Sasha practice for 4/5 quad programs and land them all - even before competitions where she's also competing.) And she's definitely skated in competitions where she's known Sasha will go for a 3A and 4 quads before (Euros for one).

Second of all, Sasha has gone for 4 quads and landed 3 of them internationally before at an ISU event. (Besides her Japan Open event where she went for 4 and landed 4 although not cleanly, scoring a 160.) She's scored a 166 at Skate Canada, where she went for 4 and rotated all 4, although she did fall on her 4S. So Sasha going for 4 quads and landing 3 will certainly not be a new concept for Anna.

Finally, Anna has scored a 162 internationally while going for 3 and landing 2, falling on her 4F, although she also did under-rotate one of her 4Lz. And she lost about 6 points merely by not rotating the second 4Lz, even though she didn't fall on it. (She's scored almost 14.8 points on a 4Lz before - 14.79 at Skate America - and she only got a 8.81 here.) (If she was clean on the second 4Lz even if she fell on the 4F (provided she rotated it) she'd be at around 167/168.)

And while comparing scores between events is questionable, it's not a given that even if Sasha goes for 4 and lands three than she'll beat Anna even with Anna "only" going for 3, even if neither are clean - although the 3A in the SP will certainly play a role. I certainly would not be surprised if Sasha does go for 4 quads here, and I highly doubt Anna would be either. I doubt Sasha going for 4 and landing 3 would come as a shock to Anna. Sasha will certainly want to go for 4 quads - it'll depend on her health (injury) and the need to balance consistency with difficulty.

Super gracious. Anna is the best. No attitude. Never a problem. I was being tongue in cheek about her friendship with Sasha. I should have used the but I know some people don't like it. .

 

[Amei]

I feel like the RusFed probably made a lot of the arrangements and probably does all takes care of most of the registrations anyway. And it was more just make sure everyone was registered and the ISU doesn't actually care as long as there is a 1-1 skater coach ratio and each skater has a coach named.

I mean in the past there was one competition where Eteri had a literal army because there were so many of her skaters registered (so it's not exactly new to not bring your actual coach haha.)

And besides I think RusFed is going to go with a best for everyone policy.

While it doesn't appear that anyone has violated a rule, it seems someone else with multiple skaters isn't bringing all the trainers/coaches that they could which means the Rus Fed can have another skater bring additional coaches. It does feel like it violates the 'spirit' of the rule which was to limit the amount of people at the event to a bare minimum. But Eteri is a master at finding the loopholes in the rules - are we sure she's not a lawyer?

I mean Anna can probably only have one person (mostly likely Eteri) at the boards and kiss and cry with her. But they might have thought it was best to bring the whole team, since there was space?

I think if Shcherbakova has a choice I would think it would be Danill over Eteri, when he and Eteri are both at the boards with Shcherbakova before she skates, he's always the one giving her the 'final' words and he seems to always be at competitions with her.

 

[chasingneverland]

While it doesn't appear that anyone has violated a rule, it seems someone else with multiple skaters isn't bringing all the trainers/coaches that they could which means the Rus Fed can have another skater bring additional coaches. It does feel like it violates the 'spirit' of the rule which was to limit the amount of people at the event to a bare minimum. But Eteri is a master at finding the loopholes in the rules - are we sure she's not a lawyer?

1. We don't actually know what coaches are coming. We don't even know what coaches will travel. We don't even know that other coaches with multiple skaters aren't doing the same thing, or bringing multiple members from their team - certainly that is nothing new. Consider perhaps all the ice dancers in Montreal with the same coach? Or the pairs skaters with the same coach?

2. It doesn't change the amount of people that the ISU was planning to have. So no.

3. We don't even know it was Eteri that made the call. Mishin could have offered. The Fed just could have decided. Any number of things could have happened.

 

[chasingneverland]

While I do think they are going to up her technical difficulty I don't agree with the idea that 'room for error' helps her psychologically, that was how she was going into competitions all last season, that she had so many quads she could afford errors - that worked okay at her solo GP events but once she got to the Final she couldn't seem to stop at 1 mistake it was multiple mistakes and with the exception of Nationals this year it's been the same way - her FS's have had multiple mistakes.

I actually don't think they went into her skates at all with the idea of "room for error".

In fact, in Sasha's first senior programs - where first she landed a 3 quad program becoming the first lady to ever do that, then she landed a 4 quad program being the first lady to land two quad-triple combos in one program and the first to backload a quad - she actually WAS fairly consistent and she certainly was more consistent than Anna as a junior (although Anna was injured for her first year and quads are, after all, hard.)

We KNOW that she (Sasha) was hitting all her quads in practices - even the ones right before her skates.

We also KNOW that, while Eteri does certainly encourage her skaters to push the limits and constantly challenge themselves and improve, she also doesn't let them skate programs, especially in meaningful competitions, that they can't do reasonably consistently in practice. (And by all accounts, Sasha DOES hit her 4/5 quad programs perfectly in practice. Last year, she was often better in practice than Alena and Anna were - they would more often have less-than-ideal practices but perform brilliantly, while Sasha was often perfect in practice but more often faltered during the actual skate.)

We also KNOW that Eteri was actually trying to limit the amount of quads Sasha was doing in competition so she could gain some consistency (and the confidence, reputation, PCS, etc that come with that). In fact, it's a main reason why Sasha left. AND that would actually "reduce" the "room for error", as you so put it, as she would have less of BV buffer.

I actually disagree completely with the notion that that's how she was going into competitions last year. In fact, I think it's the exact opposite. It also flies in the face of reason to say "she had so many quads that she could afford errors", when she was cleaner when she was doing LESS of them. It's completely contradictory. It's also absurd to assume that a skater (especially at this level) is EVER content with mistakes. In fact the fact that it suggests that Sasha planned to fall or make at least 1 mistake, and then simply got carried away (with making mistakes apparently) is soo utterly ludicrous.

I also think Sasha herself, upon seeing that Anna and Alena's BV's were increasing and that they were getting PCS that she wasn't, wanted to up her quad content. (Rather actually like I think Alena panicked this year when she couldn't get her 3A back.) Especially as it must have been very hard to continually place third when she had the most challenging programs and she could do them. I think Sasha goes into competitions, like the others, knowing they worked hard and can do their programs.

 

[bouncy]

I also think Sasha herself, upon seeing that Anna and Alena's BV's were increasing and that they were getting PCS that she wasn't, wanted to up her quad content. (Rather actually like I think Alena panicked this year when she couldn't get her 3A back.) Especially as it must have been very hard to continually place third when she had the most challenging programs and she could do them. I think Sasha goes into competitions, like the others, knowing they worked hard and can do their programs.

I miss the carefree Sasha in her junior days. I can't think of how much pressure she's under just watching other girls out-skate her bit by bit. It must be hard.

 

[Skatefan15]

I miss the carefree Sasha in her junior days. I can't think of how much pressure she's under just watching other girls out-skate her bit by bit. It must be hard.

That and it’s looking like she will most likely be the only non-Eteri skater fighting for a spot on the Olympic team (and Liza T— you can’t ever count her completely out haha). Which is a lot of pressure, so I hope she’ll be ok mentally and such. She also has the pressure of knowing she has to mostly be perfect (one quad fall at max) at worlds or many people may count her out (so so much pressure especially since the judges may not help her out with her scores anymore ).

 

[chasingneverland]

I miss the carefree Sasha in her junior days. I can't think of how much pressure she's under just watching other girls out-skate her bit by bit. It must be hard.

I actually think that's the case for all of them. While, certainly they wanted to skate and win before, there was no senior World's or Olympics or even national team spot to worry about.

Although for Sasha she hasn't actually been "out-skated" - sure she hasn't been perfectly consistent, but really neither has anyone else.

It's just that she's defined by her quads - they're her "thing", whereas the others even though they have them too (and a whole generation is now learning them) aren't defined by them - they're characterized by other elements, styles, etc. This actually leaves Sasha more "vulnerable" when she doesn't land them (naturally - no one is perfect on quads). It's actually kinda a disservice to her. It's kinda interesting too because Anna was actually first landing quads at the same time Sasha was. Anna just then got seriously injured injured and missed her first international junior season so Sasha ushered in the "age of quads" alone and became known as the "quad queen" - with all the recognition that came with that - of which she is wholly deserving. I do wonder sometimes though, if it might have been better not just for Anna, obviously, but also for Sasha if Anna hadn't been injured and they had both taken the world by a storm together. I think then Sasha might not have been "expected to" and "known as the one who does quads" which has had the effect of making her seem one-dimensional while also putting a lot of pressure on her to "obviously succeed".

However, even still Sasha still has the highest technical content and the widest arsenal. While that may change with time - Kamila's rapidly increasing arsenal and other skaters upgrades - it hasn't changed yet. It still remains true that, assuming layouts are what we expect, if Sasha is clean she should win.

However, as for pressure, it's true for both Anna and Sasha, for whom quads were a challenge, unheard of, and probably initially started almost "for fun". Now, it's expected. Now, they need them. And where once - Sasha especially - they were the trailblazers and quads were something completely new, now they desperately need their quads to not be overtaken and quads have become expected and needed. And while certainly, the fact that the OGM is never assured, there is always the "next best thing", and figure skating careers are short has always been true, it's never been at quite this speed. In the past if one could maintain their World champion level, they were nearly a guarantee to make the team the following year (provided they didn't get injured, maintained all their jumps, etc - basically provided they still skated as a World champion). Now, there is a not insignificant chance that one of Anna and Sasha could win a World's championship title here and even while maintaining all their skills and level, still not make the Olympic team next year. (And while certainly a World's title will strengthen their argument for making the Olympic team they can also be assured that everyone will upgrade and be training increasingly difficult programs and elements to beat them and that they will not be a guarantee to make that team.) There is also a very very strong chance that the Fed, when choosing the Olympic team for next year, leaves behind 5+ girls capable of doing consistent quads and/or 3As.

But also for Rika too (it's still only her 3rd senior season). Ignored in all this is that she was the youngest lady to land a 3A and the first lady to land a 3A+3T as well as the first lady to land 8 triples in a FS. That used to be amazing and while she wasn't perfectly consistent - well neither is anyone else. But now she not only needs those ground-breaking 3As she also needs to upgrade and add a 4S. And it still very likely won't be enough. It mostly likely won't be enough for gold and she needs to be be relatively clean (at least rotate everything) to even stay on the podium. And that even being clean might not be enough to podium next year, unless she upgrades..

I think it's hard for everyone. And they're all under so much pressure...

 

[Tonight's the Night]

I just tabulated the number of #1 votes for the ladies in the Worlds prediction thread. There were 58 entries (some people didn't vote in this category, but still the number of posts listed in the forum header seems off). Take a guess as to the results if you want; information underneath the spoiler.

Spoiler: Number of #1 votes for ladies.

Anna: 26
Sasha: 20
Rika: 12
Others: 0

 

[chasingneverland]

That and it’s looking like she will most likely be the only non-Eteri skater fighting for a spot on the Olympic team (and Liza T— you can’t ever count her completely out haha). Which is a lot of pressure, so I hope she’ll be ok mentally and such. She also has the pressure of knowing she has to mostly be perfect (one quad fall at max) at worlds or many people may count her out (so so much pressure especially since the judges may not help her out with her scores anymore ).

Don't forget Kseniia either.

Besides, it's not like Eteri can add spots to an Olympic team.

And everyone has to be mostly perfect here. That's definitely not just Sasha. And it's not just Sasha that has to be practically perfect leading up the the Olympics or people may count her out. That's everyone. (Or do you forget that it's somehow always Anna who gets ignored? That people used to say send her back to juniors? Or that people are still waiting for her to lose her quads? Or that Alena didn't make the World's team? Or that Liza is apparently too old (especially for learning quads)? Or that Daria needs 3As/quads and everyone forgets about her? Or that no one ever thought Maiia was going to ever land those quads and now people think it was a one time thing? And sooo many others?)

Furthermore, she'll get scores - definitely internationally - she's RusFed #2. As for domestically, anyone questioning if Plushy's skaters don't get scores just has to look at Alena's - there was one skate where she got a 77 (without the bonus) with a step out of her combo and disaster of a spin. Which makes me think that it's not a Eteri bonus as much as it's a reputation bonus (and kinda a consistency bonus - kinda like a what have you done for me lately bonus) - Eteri's skaters just have won everything internationally, recently. Also, the Fed had no problem bestowing Liza with PCS at the Channel Cup. (Now while domestic PCS (and GOE for that matter) are always crazy, that's higher that Alena got at Euro's or the GPF. Liza is certainly a charming skater but Alena she is not.)

 

[Azikin]

Don't forget Kseniia either.

And Nastya T.!

 

[starlight97]

I can't believe you guys are seriously suggesting Ksenia or Nastya could have a realistic shot at the Olympic Team...
I mean yes it's great to be positive and wish every skater the best, not forget about the second tier and acknowledge their efforts ... but come on.

You wanna tell me that out of the 7 actual contenders: Kamila, Anna, Sasha, Alena, Liza, Darya, Maya, 6/7 will suddenly regress so badly or get such a serious injury all in the same season that suddenly girl like Ksenia and Nastya have a shot?

 

[Vandevska]

It's really not that big of a deal that all 3 coaches are going. There are multiple ways in which they can arrange this: one that's obvious is that they can have Eteri and Daniil assigned to Anna, and then have Eteri and Dudakov, or just Dudakov assigned to Moris.

Speaking of Moris, is he traveling in the same plane?

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

There are multiple ways in which they can arrange this: one that's obvious is that they can have Eteri and Daniil assigned to Anna

It's one coach per athlete, so no, they can't do it like this.
Mishin has 3 athletes and only 2 coaches are going, so team Tut is getting a coach spot from them. Still no big deal though.

 

[Amei]

Saw some pictures of skaters training in the Russian bubble - we all forgot Eteri does in fact have 3 skaters going to Worlds... Kostornaia is an alternate.

 

[Vandevska]

It's one coach per athlete, so no, they can't do it like this.
Mishin has 3 athletes and only 2 coaches are going, so team Tut is getting a coach spot from them. Still no big deal though.

I thought it was 2 per skater, or 1 coach and 1 assistant/choreographer, but I might have confused it with how many people can be at the boards.