2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[readernick]

I agree about fair scoring, but disagree on people presenting this issue dominantly as somehow russian/Eteri thing, "nah, Eteri bonus", "russian bias" and all this. Just now the most problematic scoring/tech panel calls didn't concern Eteri or Russia yet it is once again the most pushed way of the conversation, but people should accept that sometimes those they don't like just deserve to win.

Now I'm finally going back to pairs

Do that! Watching pairs is better than any discussion on this forum! All of us should just go watch pairs when we feel like starting an argument It will cure us of our dissatisfaction. I am also going to watch pairs and perhaps I will go to sleep

 

[flanker]

Do that! Watching pairs is better than any discussion on this forum! All of us should just go watch pairs when we feel like starting an be argument It will cure us of our dissatisfaction. I am also going to watch pairs and perhaps I will go to sleep

It's interesting how the atmosphere around pairs is so much more quiet, decent and relaxed

 

[Draculus]

What a human you are is not relevant here. We discuss skating and sport. None of this has anything to do with what kind of person the athletes are.

Well, you can limit yourself in any way you like, but sportsman personality is important part of the sport for many people. Especially in a sport that has so many art components. So it was and and will be discussed here. You can abstain, it is allowed.

We are not discussing Boston Dynamics robots.

 

[Shayuki]

Anna isn't my favourite but I have to give to her .. she never faills so for that she deserves the win

She's failed plenty of times .-. Out of the important competitions she's really only delivered at Russian nationals.

Here's to hoping that she indeed will never fail, though.

 

[silveruskate]

Any information on practices today and yesterday?

 

[Scott512]

Do that! Watching pairs is better than any discussion on this forum! All of us should just go watch pairs when we feel like starting an argument It will cure us of our dissatisfaction. I am also going to watch pairs and perhaps I will go to sleep

Why would you prefer pairs to ladies? Less arguments there?

 

[readernick]

Why would you prefer pairs to ladies? Less arguments there?

The quality at the top is just great. Wonderful maturity in the skaters and programs, Moskvina! and less arguments. You can have real discussions of strengths and weaknesses without getting too nationalistic or risk offending someone with a technical opinion. Men's skating is also just on a whole different level now... The quality... Ladies skating is great but far from the best discipline at the moment.

 

[Scott512]

She's failed plenty of times .-. Out of the important competitions she's really only delivered at Russian nationals.

Here's to hoping that she indeed will never fail, though.

Depends what you mean by failing. Anna has not failed plenty of times as a senior. Remarkably good and consistent in her 2 senior seasons. Silver or gold in everything right? And it will probably be silver or gold for Anna tomorrow at worlds.

 

[Paulipau]

There is an Austrian Alpine skier (Feller) who has the most awful skiing technique ever. It looks messy and he's all over the place, and the "expert" commentators always give him negative critique for his technique. But sometimes it works, and he wins. The goal is to have the fastest time, and that's what matters.

Same goes for figure skating. It's a numbers game. Who cares about technique if you can get the points and get the job done?

The thing is I wish the judges cared, so that skaters can work and develop better technique. What saddens me that it is indeed not advantageous to have better technique if the faulty one get you the GOEs.

Same goes for ignoring Karen's URs, why would she try harder and get better if her mistakes are being ignored.

And I'm not hating Anna or saying that with fair judgeing she would be 7th or some other bs, because I believe that with fair judgeing she would still be 1st as noone else delivered the quality she did.

 

[Fluture]

dominantly as somehow russian/Eteri thing, "nah, Eteri bonus", "russian bias"

One look at the results of the SP and how both South Korean ladies were pushed behind the Americans (+PCS in the men’s event) shows that this is clearly not only an Eteri/Russian thing. That doesn‘t make any of it right, however, and in a thread about Russian ladies, of course the Russians and their scoring will be primarily discussed.

 

[Scott512]

The quality at the top is just great. Wonderful maturity and less arguments. You can have real discussions of strengths and weaknesses without getting too nationalistic or risk offending someone with a technical opinion. Men's skating is also just on a whole different level now... The quality... Ladies skating is great but far from the best discipline at the moment.

Ladies is the only real discipline I follow. I know pairs is loaded with several outstanding Russian teams and Chinese teams too.

Less arguing is good. Anna is a target. The problem is some people act like their favorites are flawless compared to Anna. That's not the case. They all have their flaws and are still fantastic despite their flaws.

If Russia wants to win the team event at the winter Olympics they're going to have to dominate in ladies and pairs I would think and hope dance and men don't kill them.

 

[flanker]

One look at the results of the SP and how both South Korean ladies were pushed behind the Americans (+PCS in the men’s event) shows that this is clearly not only an Eteri/Russian thing. That doesn‘t make any of it right, however, and in a thread about Russian ladies, of course the Russians and their scoring will be primarily discussed.

The thing is it is discussed elsewhere as well. Yes, negative ad is still ad, but reading some completeluy unrelated thread that turns into Eteri team bashing (which happens more than rarely) is annoying.

Yes, pushing the korean girls under the US ladies was obvious, but doesn't create a passian at all comparable to what we see here (maybe in some particular moments like there are still people making Yuna Kim affair or Eunsoo vs. Mariah things, but those are exceptions).

 

[readernick]

Ladies is the only real discipline I follow. I know pairs is loaded with several outstanding Russian teams and Chinese teams too.

Less arguing is good. Anna is a tarvst. The problem is some people act like their favorites are flawless compared to Anna. That's not the case. They all have their flaws and are still fantastic despite their flaws.

If Russia wants to win the team event at the winter Olympics they're going to have to dominate in ladies and pairs I would think and hope dance and men don't kill them.

I think the thing about Anna is that some people think she is terrible and others think she is perfect. I think she is a good skater with strengths and weaknesses like any other but that opinion doesn't seem to be accepted by either side! Anyway, enough of that.

Russian pairs are fantastic! The Chinese and Russians are just fabulous in pairs and I think everyone loves all of them ... The Russian pairs teams will definitely help the Russians next year in their quest for a medal. Russian man are much less consistent but there is a lot of talent there. You should watch other disciplines! They are just engrossing!

 

[Scott512]

I think the thing about Anna is that some people think she is terrible and others think she is perfect. I think she is a good skater with strengths and weaknesses like any other but that opinion doesn't seem to be accepted by either side! Anyway, enough of that.

Russian pairs are fantastic! The Chinese and Russians are just fabulous in pairs and I think everyone loves all of them ... The Russian pairs teams will definitely help the Russians next year in their quest for a medal. Russian man are much less consistent but there is a lot of talent there. You should watch other disciplines! They are just engrossing!

I don't know how you could watch all the disciplines would take a lot out of me.

No Anna fan thing she's perfect. But it is what it is and the ladies discipline is more talked about more controversial a more arguing then I gather the other disciplines are.

 

[lopsilceci]

It is fine to disagree. I mean I think video evidence will show you what Anna's edges are like, but I don't want to argue about this. Especially because it makes me a bit sick when people bully skaters personally and that is happening to Anna right now. However, again, the issue isn't about Anna it's that judges aren't supposed to be making personal judgements about what they consider important. They are suppose to follow the rules. A jump with an unclear edge does not necessarily deserve negative GOE but the GOE should never be above a 3 because you need to reduce GOE by 2 points. I am not saying Anna should have negative GOE on all toe jumps but a skater with proper edge and excellence in other qualities should get a +5 on a good jump ( Let's say Rika's lutz she has good transitions and nice landings too/ maybe Liza's but she didn't necessarily have the transitions or nice landings) and a skater without a proper edge should have GOE that tops out at +2. It isn't the only important variable, but it is important... And that's not my opinion that's what the rules say

Anna having flat-ish to very slight edges maybe, but she never has a wrong edge on her lutz, that's what I disagree about.

Rika does have clear edges and transitions and flow but she struggles with under rotations.
Liza also has clear edges but she has basically zero transitions into the jumps and the way she uses her arms to jump is not pretty.
Everyone has their own problems. If we judge them all with high standards then no one really deserves +5s.

I personally prefer a jump with difficult transitions in and out, nice air position and good flow with flat-ish edges to a simple, telegraphed jump with clear edge.
Maybe this is also a matter of personal preference.

 

[readernick]

Anna having flat-ish to very slight edges maybe, but she never has a wrong edge on her lutz, that's what I disagree about.

Rika does have clear edges and transitions and flow but she struggles with under rotations.
Liza also has clear edges but she has basically zero transitions into the jumps and the way she uses her arms to jump is not pretty.
Everyone has their own problems. If we judge them all with high standards then no one really deserves +5s.

I personally prefer a jump with difficult transitions in and out, nice air position and good flow with flat-ish edges to a simple, telegraphed jump with clear edge.
Maybe this is also a matter of personal preference.

Again I am talking about the rules. You can have whatever opinion you like but judges should apply the rules and no Rika does not struggle with rotation on her lutz. She doesn't usually struggle with rotation at all but she apparently stopped jumping for a while due to injury so her jumps aren't as good as usual. Her lutz here was rotated. This particular competition she had qs on her axel and toe but what isn't normal either. Those qs don't apply to the flip or lutz which is the jumps we are discussing here. Anyway this isn't about any particular skater it is about rules. If no skater deserves a +5 then no skater should get a +5.. What's wrong with that? Just don't give any skater a +5.

 

[Lzbee]

I just want to say I loved Liza's SP. It suits her so well and the last spin where she changed positions right on the beat was awesome.

 

[silveruskate]

Anna having flat-ish to very slight edges maybe, but she never has a wrong edge on her lutz, that's what I disagree about.

Rika does have clear edges and transitions and flow but she struggles with under rotations.
Liza also has clear edges but she has basically zero transitions into the jumps and the way she uses her arms to jump is not pretty.
Everyone has their own problems. If we judge them all with high standards then no one really deserves +5s.

I personally prefer a jump with difficult transitions in and out, nice air position and good flow with flat-ish edges to a simple, telegraphed jump with clear edge.
Maybe this is also a matter of personal preference.

I never understood this. Any edge aside from an Outside edge on a Lutz should be a wrong edge shouldn't it? Flat or inside is not outside. The judging just doesn't make sense to me sometimes.

 

[silveruskate]

Again I am talking about the rules. You can have whatever opinion you like but judges should apply the rules and no Rika does not struggle with rotation on her lutz. She doesn't usually struggle with rotation at all but she apparently stopped jumping for a while due to injury so her jumps aren't as good as usual. Her lutz here was rotated. This particular competition she had qs on her axel and toe but what isn't normal either. Those qs don't apply to the flip or lutz which is the jumps we are discussing here. Anyway this isn't about any particular skater it is about rules. If no skater deserves a +5 then no skater should get a +5.. What's wrong with that? Just don't give any skater a +5.

The axel was UR. But lenient call.

 

[readernick]

The axel was UR. But lenient call.

I don't think it was UR..q is correct. The toe may have been UR but neither of those jumps was a flip or lutz so that doesn't have anything to do with whether a flat edge should , following the rules, be called and GOE deducted on the jump. This isn't about the scoring yesterday, it is about all scoring and it should happen because that is the rule. If they don't want to follow the rule, they should change it.