2020–21 Canadian Figure Skating

[BearryBear]

Interview with Keegan Messing starts around 15:30

I found it a bit interesting, he talks about WTT trophy a little. He mentions that he could have went and he wanted to but they decided it was "fair" to send the other skaters. I was under the impression that we had to send the top ranked skaters of the season unless they decline, so I guess he was persuaded by the Fed not to go. Tough call. I'm glad we get to see Nam and Roman skate, but that a pretty big loss for Keegan if he wanted to go (especially the prize money when he has a baby on the way).

 

[4everchan]

whether a skater's family is growing or not shouldn't be a factor of selection. I find that comment a bit weird.

 

[BearryBear]

I mean it as, it should have been his choice to go, not persuaded to give up his spot (the spots are not assigned by the Fed like other competitions, they are supposed to go to the top skaters of the season). There's a lot of money involved in WTT, even the losing teams walks away with a big payday. Was it fair to ask him to give up a minimum of $16k to give others a chance to skate. Especially since there was almost no opportunity to earn money this season. A growing family does factor into a skaters decision to keep skating or not, just like with anything else. This is their income. He earned his WTT spot from his World's skate and he had to decline it to let others go.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I mean it as, it should have been his choice to go, not persuaded to give up his spot (the spots are not assigned by the Fed like other competitions, they are supposed to go to the top skaters of the season). There's a lot of money involved in WTT, even the losing teams walks away with a big payday. Was it fair to ask him to give up a minimum of $16k to give others a chance to skate. Especially since there was almost no opportunity to earn money this season. A growing family does factor into a skaters decision to keep skating or not, just like with anything else. This is their income.

Yes, it's our income as skaters, but many time for this event, a number top skaters from all countries at WTT chose to give up their spots for lower ranked skaters. For example: H/D aren't there for US H/B are instead. Nam/Roman are just as capable as Keegan. At least he's had a chance to compete this season, many others have not.

 

[Colonel Green]

I don't think it's odd to note that Keegan could always use the money. But on the net I think it's appropriate for the federation to have an eye toward athlete development, particularly on the men's side where Nebelhorn (and the choice of who to send) looms.

 

[BearryBear]

Yes, it's our income as skaters, but many time for this event, a number top skaters from all countries at WTT chose to give up their spots for lower ranked skaters. For example: H/D aren't there for US H/B are instead. Nam/Roman are just as capable as Keegan. At least he's had a chance to compete this season, many others have not.

H/D train in Canada, so they would be stuck in the quarantine on return from Worlds.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

H/D train in Canada, so they would be stuck in the quarantine on return from Worlds.

They all do. H/B were at Worlds too and train in the same place. H/D just came out of quarantine today not that it's relevant to this discussion. And by that means, Keegan would have been in quarantine as well, meaning by your standards he wouldn't have gone anyway.

 

[BearryBear]

They all do. H/B were at Worlds too and train in the same place. H/D just came out of quarantine today not that it's relevant to this discussion. And by that means, Keegan would have been in quarantine as well, meaning by your standards he wouldn't have gone anyway.

Keegan lives in Alaska he did not have to quarantine. He mentions in his interview that he was able to go to WTT because he was not subject to the 2 week quarantine that teams who return to Canada had. most skaters who train in Canada decided to go back to their hone country between Worlds and WTT to avoid the quarantine. Canadian skaters, residing in Canada didn’t have that option, which is why they couldn’t go to WTT.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Keegan lives in Alaska he did not have to quarantine. He mentions in his interview that he was able to go to WTT because he was not subject to the 2 week quarantine that teams who return to Canada had. most skaters who train in Canada decided to go back to their hone country between Worlds and WTT to avoid the quarantine. Canadian skaters, residing in Canada didn’t have that option, which is why they couldn’t go to WTT.

Anyone that flies and travels like that has to quarantine. Especially since the skating feds are enforcing it, IDC where one lives, and yes that includes Alaska. If he chose not to, then that's on him, but if it were me I would not be exposing my pregnant wife to that.

 

[BearryBear]

Anyone that flies and travels like that has to quarantine. Especially since the skating feds are enforcing it, IDC where one lives, and yes that includes Alaska. If he chose not to, then that's on him, but if it were me I would not be exposing my pregnant wife to that.

The Canadian quarantine is part of government regulations. Other countries don’t have that. That’s why other teams like US and Russia can use the same skaters from Worlds. No skating feds enforced it except Canada (because of the government) and Japan (which set up a training rink for them). All other skaters, it’s fair game.

 

[el henry]

The Canadian quarantine is part of government regulations. Other countries don’t have that. That’s why other teams like US and Russia can use the same skaters from Worlds. No skating feds enforced it except Canada (because of the government) and Japan (which set up a training rink for them). All other skaters, it’s fair game.

And it is also why Jason (who always planned on visiting his parents in Chicago after Worlds) could go to WTT and not Tracy Wilson. And why JeanLuc and Kaitlin trained at Great Park for the last two weeks rather than return to IAM.

I don't know of any jurisdiction in the US that requires a two week quarantine by government regulation. (ETA: although I certainly don't know them all).

And I agree with you, the payday would have been nice for Keegan, as it is for all the skaters.

 

[4everchan]

anyways... this discussion is turning in circles.
1) all athletes need money....
2) the federation decided to send nam and roman to wtt and keegan to worlds.. that was always the deal...and people complained so hard that Roman wasn't chosen .. or Nam could have done really well too... and bla bla... but in the end, Skate Canada had made what they thought was a fair decision with 3 potentially even competitors.... the fact that Keegan did so well at worlds is perhaps making some fans upset he cannot go to WTT (i was one of the ones who was in agreement to send Keegan to worlds as I thought that his international PCS scoring window was higher) but that discussion is moot... the decision was already made. And actually, before worlds, most people were happy about it... so why the change now??? Because he finished 6th at worlds? Well ... let's go back two months ago... many thought Nam would get the best finish... Even more thought it would be Roman... So.. .now, they have their chance !

 

[el henry]

@4everchan I will be happy to see Nam and Roman skate and I'm glad they get the opportunity. I'm not saying Keegan should have been sent ahead of them, and I don't think SkateCanada should go back on that decision.

(Very tangentially related, but important to me, during Worlds I learned from a person who sits near me at the Philly summer comp that Keegan used to go every summer before I started going, I was so bummed I missed it. She asked on Twitter if Keegan would come back, and whoever runs his account said it was too far for the Messings.)

Oh well.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

The Canadian quarantine is part of government regulations. Other countries don’t have that. That’s why other teams like US and Russia can use the same skaters from Worlds. No skating feds enforced it except Canada (because of the government) and Japan (which set up a training rink for them). All other skaters, it’s fair game.

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I'm now done with this little discussion. We'll just have to agree to disagree, even though I've experienced this first hand with skating and travel.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

And it is also why Jason (who always planned on visiting his parents in Chicago after Worlds) could go to WTT and not Tracy Wilson. And why JeanLuc and Kaitlin trained at Great Park for the last two weeks rather than return to IAM.

I don't know of any jurisdiction in the US that requires a two week quarantine by government regulation. (ETA: although I certainly don't know them all).

And I agree with you, the payday would have been nice for Keegan, as it is for all the skaters.

There were bigger reasons why H/B trained in California rather than return to Montreal, but that's discussion for another day and time.

 

[BearryBear]

I don’t think you understand what I was saying. It’s not about sending Keegan to World and the other two to WTT. Skaters for WTT are not picked by the federations, not like it was for Worlds. Federations have to send their skaters by season rankings. Others skaters next on the list can only go if the skater above them declines. I was trying to discuss the ethics of the Canadian Fed persuading Keegan to give up his spot when he clearly wanted to go from his interview and the loss of money from having to pass his spot. Like I said, I’m glad to see Roman and Nam skate and I do like they all got a chance to, but was it right to make Keegan give up his spot that he earned from his World’s skate if he wanted to go and had the ability to?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I don’t think you understand what I was saying. It’s not about sending Keegan to World and the other two to WTT. Skaters for WTT are not picked by the federations, not like it was for Worlds. Federations have to send their skaters by season rankings. Others skaters next on the list can only go if the skater above them declines. I was trying to discuss the ethics of the Canadian Fed persuading Keegan to give up his spot when he clearly wanted to go from his interview and the loss of money from having to pass his spot. Like I said, I’m glad to see Roman and Nam skate and I do like they all got a chance to, but was it right to make Keegan give up his spot that he earned from his World’s skate if he wanted to go and had the ability to?

(not rude tone) I don't think you understand that I don't need this explained for me, I've lived it in the past. And as @4everchan has stated, this was all decided before anyway. It's doesn't matter if keegan was supposedly talked out of it or not. Can we move on from this now please?!

 

[4everchan]

I don’t think you understand what I was saying. It’s not about sending Keegan to World and the other two to WTT. Skaters for WTT are not picked by the federations, not like it was for Worlds. Federations have to send their skaters by season rankings. Others skaters next on the list can only go if the skater above them declines. I was trying to discuss the ethics of the Canadian Fed persuading Keegan to give up his spot when he clearly wanted to go from his interview and the loss of money from having to pass his spot. Like I said, I’m glad to see Roman and Nam skate and I do like they all got a chance to, but was it right to make Keegan give up his spot that he earned from his World’s skate if he wanted to go and had the ability to?

this is correct in regular years... not right now... Also, why do you focus on Keegan then? MTM, Piper and Paul FBS and even LALA are way ahead of their competitors... I mean piper and paul are world medal winners... it would have been great for them to go, especially considering that the two top American teams are not there.. .they would have had a chance to secure their rankings and get closer to the RUssians... BUT the decision was made before worlds, and considering Canadian circumstances. SKATE CANADA here obviously made a deal : there is a quarantine, if there is a Canadian team at WTT it will be non-worlds athletes... It is what it is.

 

[BearryBear]

this is correct in regular years... not right now... Also, why do you focus on Keegan then? MTM, Piper and Paul FBS and even LALA are way ahead of their competitors... I mean piper and paul are world medal winners... it would have been great for them to go, especially considering that the two top American teams are not there.. .they would have had a chance to secure their rankings and get closer to the RUssians... BUT the decision was made before worlds, and considering Canadian circumstances. SKATE CANADA here obviously made a deal : there is a quarantine, if there is a Canadian team at WTT it will be non-worlds athletes... It is what it is.

I was focusing on Keegan’s situation because he was the only one not subject to quarantine rules so he was able to actually attend WTT unlike the other Canadian athletes.

(not rude tone) I don't think you understand that I don't need this explained for me, I've lived it in the past. And as @4everchan has stated, this was all decided before anyway. It's doesn't matter if keegan was supposedly talked out of it or not. Can we move on from this now please?!

Sorry I forgot to quote in my reply, it wasn’t directed to you but to 4everchan. But it’s a bit rude to try to end someone’s discussion because you don’t like. You can simply not reply if you don’t like the conversation.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I was focusing on Keegan’s situation because he was the only one not subject to quarantine rules so he was able to actually attend WTT unlike the other Canadian athletes.

Sorry I forgot to quote in my reply, it wasn’t directed to you but to 4everchan. But it’s a bit rude to try to end someone’s discussion because you don’t like. You can simply not reply if you don’t like the conversation.

First of all, it wasn't directed at anyone aka you didn't say one of our names nor quote us and was a continuation of your point to me over and over, so how I was I not to know you weren't directing it at me? Also, I said in my post specifically, that i was not being rude in anyway. And FWIW, we say agree to disagree and end a conversation like that here on forums. Which I said many post ago in this thread, you chose to continue.