James/Radford announce partnership

[BearryBear]

I’m not sure why you feel the need to be rude, but I’m a lawyer so yeah, I read a shitload of articles.

I wasn’t trying to be rude. I just didn’t understand why you were trying to put down the article because it follows normal standards. But I think what you said here highlights the problem? Academic writing is much different from journalistic writing. They don’t really follow the same rules when it comes to sourcing and referencing. You can’t really expect a news piece or blog article to follow the strict standards of an academic or legal paper, it’s just not how it’s done in the industry. But that’s a whole other debate...

 

[4everchan]

In less than a week? That IS hard.

Also, the fact that they're not following each other on social media suggests a breakdown of communication and desire for distance.

i disagree. Enough? Two calls in a week? When she's hurting ? To me, the simple fact that she is not picking up the phone shows how much more than a simple misunderstanding this is. When the wound is very deep and fresh, putting a bandaid on it will not do any good.

You and I do not know what exactly happened but a simple hypothesis : with his CBC statement, if Eric "lied" about anything, he just aggravated Meagan's already hurt feelings.. . he made a statement to "clarify his point of view" but made it look like she was the one giving up on him to have babies... or that she was a Plan B... I am sorry but if such a thing had been done to me, I would also not pick up the phone, and I would wait for a convincing apology. If or course, he means it... and btw, how do you know these things? Like how many times a skater calls another one and whether or not they picked up the phone?

 

[chasingneverland]

i disagree. Enough? Two calls in a week? When she's hurting ? To me, the simple fact that she is not picking up the phone shows how much more than a simple misunderstanding this is. When the wound is very deep and fresh, putting a bandaid on it will not do any good.

That's why maybe time is what's needed rather than instant reconciliation. Also sometimes, people aren't ready to talk and that's okay.

Forcing something doesn't help.

 

[Tavi...]

I wasn’t trying to be rude. I just didn’t understand why you were trying to put down the article because it follows normal standards. But I think what you said here highlights the problem? Academic writing is much different from journalistic writing. They don’t really follow the same rules when it comes to sourcing and referencing. You can’t really expect a news piece or blog article to follow the strict standards of an academic or legal paper, it’s just not how it’s done in the industry. But that’s a whole other debate...

Okay, understood. Thanks for clarifying and sorry for the misunderstanding. I agree that academic writing is different, and legal writing is especially careful about attributions, but I actually read quite a lot of news (NYT, WaPo, etc) and magazines (Atlantic, New Yorker etc) as well as other stuff. Not all of them are super scrupulous, but in case like this, where public statements by Meagan were out and where Bev’s article said stuff that contradicted those public statements, I do think she should have been clearer.

Here’s an NBC sports article about the new partnership. It very clearly attributes the sources, and as a result, the story is also clearer. And that’s what I would have expected from Bev Smith.

Decorated pairs’ skaters Vanessa James, Eric Radford team up for Olympic season

Both world and Grand Prix Final medalists with different partners and for different nations, James and Radford are teaming up in time for the 2022 Olympic season.

olympics.nbcsports.com

 

[BearryBear]

Okay, understood. Thanks for clarifying and sorry for the misunderstanding. I agree that academic writing is different, and legal writing is especially careful about attributions, but I actually read quite a lot of news (NYT, WaPo, etc) and magazines (Atlantic, New Yorker etc) as well as other stuff. Not all of them are super scrupulous, but in case like this, where public statements by Meagan were out and where Bev’s article said stuff that contradicted those public statements, I do think she should have been clearer.

Here’s an NBC sports article about the new partnership. It very clearly attributes the sources, and as a result, the story is also clearer. And that’s what I would have expected from Bev Smith.

Decorated pairs’ skaters Vanessa James, Eric Radford team up for Olympic season

Both world and Grand Prix Final medalists with different partners and for different nations, James and Radford are teaming up in time for the 2022 Olympic season.

olympics.nbcsports.com

The difference is that article is using third party sources to piece together an article. They didn’t directly interview the participants. But whatever. Regardless, it’s clear there’s a disconnect between statements to different sources and it’s creating a lot of confusion for everyone involved.

 

[solani]

I guess Bev must have recorded the phone call. She's being gracious, not Meagan. I actually like Meagan a lot, but she clearly can't remember her own words. Meagan is very open and talkative. And that makes me wonder what she told Eric over all those years. Babies included.

And she's influnced by TSL. Dave is twittering wrong infos (like what's written in Aljona's book) and Meagan is responding to that. She must think that Eric didn't actually want to skate with her all those years ... this must hurt and there's no proof for that. Dave should be ashamed, because he's making her feel worse than necessary.
I'm against burning bridges. But that's what Meagan does, fired up by TSL.
Again, I don't see why they could not do shows together after the Olympics. But after this mess ... it's just sad. And so unnecessary.
Eric seems so excited about this new opportunity. A friend should be happy for him. Sometimes one gets hurt and there is no one to blame, only the circumstances.

 

[skylark]

.... Vanessa and Eric. I am not convinced that their pairing will yield the results that they think it will, ...

But they haven't said what results they think their partnership will yield, have they, so how do we know what they think in terms of results? In all I've read so far, they've dwelt on the fact that they have an unexpected opportunity to grow as athletes and artists.

*[ETA: okay, I read another article, and Vanessa has said, "But it's definitely a goal and dream for us to get to the Olympics and hopefully an Olympic medal." ]*end of correction. My main thoughts are unchanged.

*[ETA #2: Vanessa saying "hopefully an Olympic medal" is different from expecting or thinking they'll get a particular result. And it's true that journalists and fans expect them to be thinking in terms of what medal they're aiming for. What skaters aim for and what they think they'll get may not be the same.]

It's puzzling to me that so much of the discussion of Vanessa and Eric (other than scandal, betrayal, etc.) has been taken in the direction of results. When actually, they've both said clearly that while they're looking forward to competing, they recognize that re-learning how to compete well will probably be their biggest challenge. Eric specifically said in the Bev Smith article that they "didn't form the partnership to win the Olympics or a bunch of medals."

I agree with @TontoK's view that James/Radford might have a chance of being in the top 5, but more likely the top 10 worldwide. Well, what's wrong with that? Knierim/Frazier achieved 7th place in their first Worlds, having been skating together for a year, plus they're younger than J/R and didn't miss years of high-level training. Most everyone, including me, thinks that's a fine result, even though it's clear they've skated better. The WTT result shows that building their experience as a team has them on an upward curve.

A pair like Vanessa and Eric, who've been away from competition for 2 (Vanessa) or 3 (Eric) years, may face bigger challenges. Which they recognize and acknowledge.

By far the largest number of the things that Vanessa and Eric have said, in "That Figure Skating Show" and the Bev Smith interview, indicate that they're most engaged and looking forward to taking their pairs skating in new directions and exploring what they can do. It's about the skating and creating something unlike what they created with their previous partners. So, developing their own Body of Work, but not in something measurable like results, but by taking their artistry and elements in new directions. That kind of expanding.

That's what I'm really looking forward to seeing and enjoying and marveling at.

 

[ice coverage]

... Here’s an NBC sports article about the new partnership. It very clearly attributes the sources, and as a result, the story is also clearer. And that’s what I would have expected from Bev Smith.

Decorated pairs’ skaters Vanessa James, Eric Radford team up for Olympic season

Both world and Grand Prix Final medalists with different partners and for different nations, James and Radford are teaming up in time for the 2022 Olympic season.

olympics.nbcsports.com

Adding to BearryBear's replies:

The NBC Olympic Talk blog often has recap-type articles that include zero original reporting.
An example is its recap of non-original reporting regarding the new James/Radford partnership and Duhamel's reaction.

The "byline" for the recap is simply, "Olympic Talk" -- as opposed to an actual reporter (such as Nick Zaccardi, Lynn Rutherford, Phil Hersh).
As is ethical practice, the recap properly gives credit to the outside sources (CBC, FFSG, Skate Canada release, Duhamel tweet).

In contrast is (for example) Lynn Rutherford's Apr 13 piece for NBC Olympic Talk about Jason Brown (which no doubt is familiar to you):

Jason Brown, Rohene Ward seek to spread the light with “Sinnerman” program

When choreographer Rohene Ward contemplates a new program for Jason Brown, he asks himself: How are we trying to touch people? With frustrations in the Black community growing and COVID-19 tightening its grip, Ward thought it was time to honor Alvin Ailey.

olympics.nbcsports.com

It has Lynn's own byline, and I think to most readers, it is readily understood that the quotes are from Lynn's original reporting.
(An exception being the quote from the deceased Ailey.)

As discussed above, Lynn's piece of journalism is a different type of animal from a scholarly article, and Lynn not surprisingly does not spell out that she interviewed Rohene by phone on such-and-such date and Jason on such-and-such date.

 

[4everchan]

well... how can someone not think about results when you put together former world medalists etc... ? What kind of international accolades had Alexa and Brandon achieved prior to teaming up? Expectations about results just come from their respective and past achievements. Nothing wrong with that. Also, Vanessa said something about hoping to go the games (which means top two in Canada) and perhaps a medal... so there..watching the interview is quite revealing

 

[skylark]

well... how can someone not think about results when you put together former world medalists etc... ?

I suppose you're asking a good question ... it's just that it's not how I think, at all. (recognizing that even I myself am a fierce competitor when I'm engaged, and high-level skaters are.) But from reading what Eric and Vanessa have said, result isn't what they're primarily focused on. Experience is.

However, I did amend my post, above, after I read another article quoting her in the That Figure Skating Show.

 

[cisum88note]

Like I said the information was from the article I posted, here is a quote in the article form Meagan, “If Radford had come to her and told her that he wanted to make a comeback, and asked her what she thought, Duhamel said she would have told him that she was not interested, that she wanted to have more babies.” The article also says, “She had done a Stars On Ice tour while pregnant, but skipped a Rock the Rink tour across Canada because of her pregnancy.” So he has lost income and show opportunities in the past because of her pregnancy. He’s not assuming, he knows her well and knows what she wants and knows what has happened in the past. If Meagan is saying different things on social media than the news article she’s quoted in, then that’s on her. It wouldn’t be the first time she changed her story.

Yeah... that’s again, not what actually happened and the quote has been retracted.

She stated that she did not want to come back to compete professionally but they were planning on show skating. Eric’s claim was he couldn’t depend on Meagan show skating and would lose income because she was to have another child in the foreseeable future, a claim she has never made. She noted that if Eric had been honest with her that he wanted to compete competitively and come back and offer the option to her, she would have told him she wasn’t interested. Instead, he didn’t ask her, found another partner, and still led her to believe that they would be show skating together this year.

out of 3 tours during her pregnancy/birth year, she and Eric skated in 2 of them and he was a paid participant in BotB during the third - a conflict that would have precluded his participation in the other tour. I’m truly missing the part where there’s any evidence of his income losses because of Meagan.

 

[BearryBear]

You literally just made up “that she wanted to have more babies.” That is not in the article at all - a complete lie.

Woah calm down. Nothing I said was a lie and I didn’t make anything up. What I posted was directly quoted from the article. If the author of the article changed the content after that’s not my fault.

 

[DSQ]

As mentioned in my post above, most articles I read include the information somewhere, at least once. Unless sources are cited, the reader doesn’t know if the information is reliable. And if you mischaracterize someone’s statements because you didn’t double check them before publishing, you can get yourself in a lot of trouble.

What can I tell you, that is not standard practice from any newspaper I read. I live with a BBC radio journalist, this sort of thing is her life and I can tell you that usually this only specify if they are not direct quotes.

 

[karne]

As mentioned in my post above, most articles I read include the information somewhere, at least once. Unless sources are cited, the reader doesn’t know if the information is reliable. And if you mischaracterize someone’s statements because you didn’t double check them before publishing, you can get yourself in a lot of trouble.

This is not at all standard practice for regular news articles.

 

[icetug]

Announced, but he had been training with James since January and had not told Meagan in all of that time.

Training with sb doesn't mean making decision on their partnership. Otherwise I would expect that Stephane Lambiel decided on his coming back, this time in pairs with Alexia Paganini as I've watched them training pairs together...
Still, that doesn't mean I wouldn't like Eric to talk to Meagan before her TSL friends spilled the tea.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Again, I don't see why they could not do shows together after the Olympics. But after this mess ... it's just sad.

With the new pairing, I don't think Meagan and Eric would get back together for shows regardless of how this week unfolded. Vanessa has no partner to go back to, so I'm sure she'll want to continue building a career with Eric even after they retire from competition.

 

[Tavi...]

Regarding the Bev Smith article: for those of you saying that clarifying the source of information is not standard practice, in a prior post I linked to an NBC article about this partnership showing exactly that. I just looked at some of the articles Christine Brennan has written about Vanessa’s former partner and she is also very clear about the sources of her information. So it’s obviously not that unusual. Beyond that, Bev Smith’s article is titled “The Muddy Waters of a Comeback.” The expression “muddy waters” refers to something that isn’t clear, and set my expectation that the article would attempt to clear those muddy waters. For me it did not, and in fact it left me with a feeling that the author wasn’t objective. If you disagree, that’s fine.

 

[4everchan]

That's why maybe time is what's needed rather than instant reconciliation. Also sometimes, people aren't ready to talk and that's okay.

Forcing something doesn't help.

LOL thanks for confirming what I am saying... Eric will need to do much more than 2 phone calls right after the events.... Meagan cannot be forced to pick up at this point, she is just not ready to hear his "excuses" ... my original post about this said that if Eric really cares about his friendship with Meagan, he will find a way to reach out to her and make it up immensely to her. To which, you said, but he called twice already... to which we agree on : it's not now that it matters... she's not willing to listen... give her time.... it's not rocket science. So again, if he cares, he will work extra hard to make it up to her and hopefully, their friendship was strong enough to start with, so things can get better between them.

 

[TontoK]

LOL thanks for confirming what I am saying... Eric will need to do much more than 2 phone calls right after the events.... Meagan cannot be forced to pick up at this point, she is just not ready to hear his "excuses" ... my original post about this said that if Eric really cares about his friendship with Meagan, he will find a way to reach out to her and make it up immensely to her. To which, you said, but he called twice already... to which we agree on : it's not now that it matters... she's not willing to listen... give her time.... it's not rocket science. So again, if he cares, he will work extra hard to make it up to her and hopefully, their friendship was strong enough to start with, so things can get better between them.

I'm sure we all hope for an amicable end to Eric and Meagan's partnership... if this is, indeed, the end.

But it may not be. Even longtime marriages often end in less than amicable splits... so while we may "hope," I don't think we can necessarily "expect."

This may well turn out to be acrimonious and spiteful. It seems to have taken that turn, if reports of their mutual social media unfollowing are true. You mention that "if he cares" he'll take certain actions. But what if, at this point, he doesn't care? He just wants to be done with her, especially if, as he views it, she expressed one opinion to him directly and another to the world on Twitter?

I suspect our own histories can color our views on this subject. My personal history includes a relationship wherein at the end, I was just done... forevermore and never looking back... and I wouldn't have cared if the future of the free world depended on my speaking to her again - it wasn't happening.

But I'm curious. What exactly do you think Eric can do to "make it up immensely to her?"

 

[skylark]

So again, if he cares, he will work extra hard to make it up to her and hopefully, their friendship was strong enough to start with, so things can get better between them.

If Meagan cares, will she work extra hard to make up to him for all the sturm and drang she's brought to the last few days? She might. There's always a chance, and there's always hope. It seems to me that Eric's trying to call her twice was a good faith effort that was rejected.

I do think that all this isn't going to spoil Vanessa and Eric's partnership in the least. Thankfully. Most fans let go of their anger with time. Those who don't, won't. And in this case, J/R have a lot to offer, for pairs lovers, for Canada, for the world. I hope they do make it to the Olympics and Worlds next year. It'll be interesting to see a completely new style brought to pairs skating.