James/Radford announce partnership

[BlissfulSynergy]

On TSL, Lease made a reference to music he supposedly thinks James/Radford are planning to use for a sp. In their brief conversation with Asher and Dylan, Vanessa/Eric specifically declined to mention their music choices, so Lease may not have accurate info. But who knows.

In any case, if this is it, here it is:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[ice coverage]

I'm not going to dig through the everything el henry posted, but from what I read, I understood it as the former partner would give a quote about their former partner finding success, possibly on their personal social media or Facebook or in real life. Whether or not a reporter deemed it important enough to put in the newspaper is something else entirely

You're putting words into someone else's mouth. I don't see anything about el henry saying that he believes that "the federal announcement of a new partnership usually has x content or y content." El henry mentioned federations and in a separate paragraph mentioned quotes, and you're putting them together in a way that no one meant.

LOL, brightphoton, it is of no consequence whether you agree with me or not regarding el henry's intended meaning.
I will be happy to take el henry's word -- but not yours -- as to her intended meaning.

I will note that you already apparently misread el henry once on this particular issue, so IMO, it remains questionable whether your interpretation of her meaning is correct.
It is indisputable that el henry was talking about well-wishes specifically to a former (newly former) partner's new partnership -- and not merely a general wish at the end of a partnership that the other partner "find success."

I am not going to go back through the thread to find the previous posts from el henry that also -- IIRC -- indicate that she had been and still was talking about a federation announcement of a new partnership.

If(?) I truly have misunderstood el henry, I hope and expect that el henry herself would let me know. If(?) that time comes, I will cross the bridge of responding to el henry.

BTW, on the day that the James/Radford partnership was announced, Meagan's original post on Twitter and Instagram about being blindsided/heartbroken/deeply hurt did include the sentence, "I wish Eric happiness in his new adventures." So it is possible for that type of comment to come at the time of a former partner's new partnership.
But again, I believe el henry was speaking specifically of Skate Canada's announcement of the new partnership not having a quote from Meagan.

 

[Colonel Green]

There are multiple steps to getting release. They were involved in Vanessa's release from France.

Yes, and? That’s not a betrayal. That’s what the organization exists to do.

 

[4everchan]

On TSL, Lease made a reference to music he supposedly thinks James/Radford are planning to use for a sp. In their brief conversation with Asher and Dylan, Vanessa/Eric specifically declined to mention their music choices, so Lease may not have accurate info. But who knows.

In any case, if this is it, here it is:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

i would certainly advise against that choice.

1) I'm falling again is repeated throughout the piece.... not a good idea for figure skaters to hear these words all year long when they are on the ice
2) they said they wanted to create something new and special... i don't see how that achieves that.

 

[Amei]

i would certainly advise against that choice.

1) I'm falling again is repeated throughout the piece.... not a good idea for figure skaters to hear these words all year long when they are on the ice
2) they said they wanted to create something new and special... i don't see how that achieves that.

they could just argue any falls are choreographic elements

 

[jenaj]

I have been following this story off and on. I think Meghan didn't do herself much good by going public with her disappointment. Not that she wasn't entitled to feel disappointed. It's just that it stirs up a hornet's nest where she ends up looking kind of bitter and vengeful. Eric, by being silent, looks like the "better person." None of this is fair, of course. It's just the way PR works.

 

[readernick]

I have been following this story off and on. I think Meghan didn't do herself much good by going public with her disappointment. Not that she wasn't entitled to feel disappointed. It's just that it stirs up a hornet's nest where she ends up looking kind of bitter and vengeful. Eric, by being silent, looks like the "better person." None of this is fair, of course. It's just the way PR works.

I don't think Eric statement ( which comes across as sexist) is giving people a positive view of him either. Most comments either support Megan or think both are behaving badly. As far as Megan staying quiet vs speaking out.. On one hand, I am not someone who personally speaks up when wronged. I suppose I believe in "being the bigger person and letting things go for your own good" But, on the other hand, she has some thought provoking opinions about contacts and the importance of honesty in partnerships. I, also, don't think skaters should be required to hide their true feelings and say they are happy for a partner who made a selfish decision without any thought for how it would affect them. Honesty is fine. Only those willing to brave the backlash make important changes.

 

[4everchan]

I have been following this story off and on. I think Meghan didn't do herself much good by going public with her disappointment. Not that she wasn't entitled to feel disappointed. It's just that it stirs up a hornet's nest where she ends up looking kind of bitter and vengeful. Eric, by being silent, looks like the "better person." None of this is fair, of course. It's just the way PR works.

perhaps at first with her social media postings.. in the interview she comes across calm, and definitely not vengeful. The problem is exactly Eric being silent but not to the fans but to her...

 

[Shayuki]

Yeah, I definitely don't have any sympathy for Maegan. Comes across as very selfish. Plenty of reasons to dislike her nowadays, it appears.

Good for Radford and hope they have some solid success.

 

[TontoK]

I have been following this story off and on. I think Meghan didn't do herself much good by going public with her disappointment. Not that she wasn't entitled to feel disappointed. It's just that it stirs up a hornet's nest where she ends up looking kind of bitter and vengeful. Eric, by being silent, looks like the "better person." None of this is fair, of course. It's just the way PR works.

From a PR perspective, if I'm Eric, I'm not saying another word on the topic.

Not to Meagan, not to the traditional media, not on social media. If pressed during an interview: "I treasure the memories of our partnership, and I wish her well."

Saying absolutely nothing means that your words cannot be misinterpreted or misreported or twisted. He gains nothing by providing more fodder, and certainly nothing by getting into a tit-for-tat response.

 

[el henry]

From a PR perspective, if I'm Eric, I'm not saying another word on the topic.

Not to Meagan, not to the traditional media, not on social media. If pressed during an interview: "I treasure the memories of our partnership, and I wish her well."

Saying absolutely nothing means that your words cannot be misinterpreted or misreported or twisted. He gains nothing by providing more fodder, and certainly nothing by getting into a tit-for-tat response.

given how much Eric screwed up his first response, I agree that is a good move on his part.

He did not act as a “stand up guy” to Meagan, and it is to Meagan he should direct any comments. Meagan has not engaged in tit for tat, and neither should Eric.

 

[skylark]

As @skylark pointed out, her posted comments are in response to what Meagan herself said about wanting to 'speak her truth' in order to help others deal with similar hurtful experiences. I don't see @skylark saying that Meagan 'owes' anything to anyone.

Thank you for understanding my post in the spirit that I intended.

I agree with your above comments @skylark re how much better it might have been for Meagan to put into practice what she complains that Eric failed to do.

Exactly. Again.

This whole situation I have been reflecting on after a couple of speeches at the Oscar Awards this evening resonated with me. Only the second ever woman director won the Best Director Oscar: Chloe Zhao. The film Zhao directed, starring Frances McDormand (who won Best Actress), Nomadland, is available for streaming on Hulu, or viewing in theaters too. In her speech, Zhao spoke of how she used to recite classic Chinese poetry with her father as a child. One particular passage from a poem has always stayed with her: "People at birth are inherently good." Zhao then picked up her Oscar and said, "This is for anyone who has the faith and the courage to hold onto the goodness in themselves and to hold onto the goodness in each other."

What Zhao said early in the broadcast was brought full circle in Tyler Perry's acceptance speech for the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian Award. I've heard about Perry's many wonderful acts of kindness, but I learned during the broadcast even more about the kind things he has done for those in need. He doesn't help people though because he wants thanks. It's just that his mother always told him to care about other people, and to not look around for others to be the heroes. Even in adversity, Perry's mother would say to him to find a way forward. In his speech Perry spoke about his mother teaching him "to refuse hate, to refuse blanket judgment..." He went on to say in an uplifting way that in the midst of today's negatively saturated news cycle that we should all try to refuse hate and to make an effort to stand in the middle, where healing can happen.

Such great thoughts. I really appreciate your taking the time to share these. And how wonderful it is that these two artists said these things. I missed the broadcast, but I've been inspired many times by the words of wisdom in some of the acceptance speeches, as well as some of the other sentiments expressed.

There usually are inspirational words spoken at the Oscar ceremonies every year. I recall many inspirational moments, including one memorable speech some years ago by Jeff Bridges who talked about being one of the spokes that keep the wheel turning. Some people didn't seem to understand what his analogy was all about. LOL. But I got it! Anyway, my overall point is, that of course nothing is easy and people disappoint us and life disappoints us all the time. It's about finding a way to pull something out of ourselves that can overcome the pain. It's about reaching outside of ourselves, instead of fanning the flames of hurt and of hate. Seems like lofty, pie-in-the-sky for sure. But maybe baby steps or taking a moment to pause and to not make everything about our own pain. Ah well, I think I'm talking myself into stop feeling sorry for myself for my own current woes and complaints about others close to me.

I know what you mean. Often I find that I can write myself out of one of my darker moods. Yet, it's sometimes hard to make the effort. It's a great thing when I have a good listener who gets it and cares to be there. I hope your current woes and complaints will be lifted, even if just a little at a time.

 

[el henry]

This time I am quoting el henry's full post, which shows that she is speaking of the federation Skate Canada not having a quote from Meagan.

The type of quote that el henry says she always has seen is, "I have heard that Skater X has teamed with Skater Y and I wish them well" -- which would be specifically in reference to a new partnership.

Before your posts, brightphoton, I already was questioning el henry's belief that this type of quote always appears in a federation announcement of a new partnership.
If your posts are trying to convince me of something, there is no need.

I do not have time now to go back and look at the quoted posts, but I may indeed have conflated two issues.

1). IME, skating federations provide quotes and access to skaters. In some instances, the few journalists who are covering our sport may have direct access (pretty sure Phil Hersh texts directly). So in my mind, before assuming that everybody would think this was some kind of wedding where criticism is akin to calling the bride ugly (nope), get your ducks in a row.

2) And I was thinking, as @brightphoton pointed out, of the original "break up announcements". We have decided to go our separate ways, I wish So and So well in their future endeavors. These quotes are easy to get.

And the fact that someone as experienced in the skating world as Meagan honestly thought that Skate Canada was going to contact her for a quote solidifies that opinion for me. Someone, somewhere should have contacted her. Before this announcement. Her reaction was warranted.

Until another interview or new facts are known, that will remain my opinion.

 

[ice coverage]

I do not have time now to go back and look at the quoted posts, but I may indeed have conflated two issues.

1). IME, skating federations provide quotes and access to skaters. In some instances, the few journalists who are covering our sport may have direct access (pretty sure Phil Hersh texts directly). So in my mind, before assuming that everybody would think this was some kind of wedding where criticism is akin to calling the bride ugly (nope), get your ducks in a row.

2) And I was thinking, as @brightphoton pointed out, of the original "break up announcements". We have decided to go our separate ways, I wish So and So well in their future endeavors. These quotes are easy to get. ...

Appreciate your reply, el henry.
So I think you are saying that what happened to you is the type of accidental miscommunication that happens to all of us at one time or another: having one thing in mind (quotes of "I wish So and So well in their future endeavors" in "break up announcements"), but misspeaking and using wording that means something different ("I have heard that Skater X has teamed with Skater Y and I wish them well").

I have been in your shoes on other occasions, so I do understand that your miswording was an accident.
At the same time, I hope that you understand that when I had responded to your actual wording, I had no way of knowing that you accidentally had used wording that expressed something different from what you really had in mind.

Also, I think you are confirming that you were speaking of the issue of whether *federations* do or do not obtain quotes from former partners for use in announcements issued by federations. Your intention to discuss what federations do or do not do has been clear all along, and I am glad to hear from the horse's mouth that I understood correctly your intention to discuss federations.

 

[skylark]

Someone said they might want to watch/listen to some good TSL interviews. I can highly recommend beginning with the following:

with 1) Rudy Galindo, and

2) Caitlin Yankowskas

These are tearjerkers and also really uplifting. Rudy and Caitlin are very inspiring. Well, and the subjects are pertinent to this conversation.

 

[Amei]

Someone said they might want to watch/listen to some good TSL interviews. I can highly recommend beginning with the following:

with 1) Rudy Galindo, and

2) Caitlin Yankowskas

These are tearjerkers and also really uplifting. Rudy and Caitlin are very inspiring. Well, and the subjects are pertinent to this conversation.

I have a hard time, especially after the Worlds coverage, of giving TSL any clicks on their Youtube channel

 

[chasingneverland]

Yes, and? That’s not a betrayal. That’s what the organization exists to do.

I think the idea is that they are yet another entity that knew and didn't tell her. (Others include Eric (obviously), her SIL, and even other skaters who told Eric to tell her.)

With Skate Canada it's interesting that they didn't even ask for a statement from her as she thought they would.

 

[el henry]

I have a hard time, especially after the Worlds coverage, of giving TSL any clicks on their Youtube channel

The actual coverage of each Worlds event, with the guest speakers, was amazingly good. Since we are talking Pairs here, Elena Bechke was their guest and I learned a great deal.

TSL's recaps with guests, are informative and interesting, much like their interviews. Not the same as the opinion segments.

And since this thread is about Vanessa and Eric and Meagan, and not the many ways folks may find issue with TSL, or find issue with Meagan's statements outside of the pairing of Vanessa and Eric (not that you said that), I shall end here.

 

[Skater Boy]

I would tend to think that there isn't a specific formula utilized to announce a new pairing or to announce a break-up across federations. Every situation for particular skaters is different. Sometimes announcements aren't made right away when there are break-ups or new pairings. It varies depending upon the individual circumstances, particularly when differences are involved. With the advent of social media, sometimes skaters post about new partnerships or splits on Instagram, but not always.

There are all kinds of break-ups that have happened in pairs and in ice dance that have involved hurt feelings, or lack of good communication. And in the case of younger skaters, parental involvement. The break-up between Yamaguchi/Galindo comes to mind from long ago. At least many years later, there was a measure of reconciliation and healing. Rudy ended up achieving his own hard-won success, writing a well-received biography and even coaching Yamaguchi's young daughter. In the case of Duhamel/Radford, the after-retirement comeback with a different partner is somewhat unusual. Some fans are reminded of Savchenko coming back with Massot. However, Savchenko had begun considering a partnership with Massot knowing that Robin did not want to continue with eligible competition. The problem was that Robin was left high-and-dry believing he would be skating in shows with Aliona. Although some fans remarked on Robin's dilemma, there wasn't a huge outcry or outpouring of sympathy for Robin. Fortunately, Nina Mozer reached out to offer Robin a coaching position, which was helpful. I wonder what Robin is doing now, after the U.S. fed-orchestrated engagement with him working with Meno/Sand's group in Irvine, did not seem to pan out.

It is interesting that Meagan confirmed she learned from her coaches in 2014 that Eric had been interested in exploring a partnership with Aliona after the 2014 Sochi Olympics, when Robin was definitely known to be retiring. At that point, Aliona already had her eyes set on Bruno Massot, who had been training with Daria Popova under coach, Ingo Steuer, along with Aliona & Robin. So apparently, Eric had been thinking early on about exploring a different direction. I wonder if Meagan ever spoke to Eric about that particular exploration. Obviously, D/R overcame whatever the hiccough was about and continued to focus on improving together. They ended up winning Worlds twice (2016, 2017). Then, D/R seemed to hit a point of needing to come up with fresh ideas. That's around the same time when James/Cipres broke out under a new coaching team with some great programs and renewed energy and focus.

Meagan was eager to gain some inspiration in Zimmerman's camp, which led to the break-up between Bruno Marcotte and Richard Gauthier. Who knows, perhaps that foray into the Zimmerman camp led to some minor conflict with Julie Marcotte too, who was D/R's choreographer of record at the time. In the Zimmerman camp, D/R worked with Zimmerman and staff on choreo, but D/R later returned to a former program by JMarcotte that same season, if I'm not mistaken.

Well I guess what is done is done. Such drama. Now we have to watch & see.

 

[4everchan]

Another interesting aspect is that perhaps someone in SC may have initiated discussions with Eric first (maybe after they saw the clip of Eric and Vanessa doing crossovers for fun during their stint on BOTB last fall). With SC's suggestion in hand, Eric then probably approached Vanessa. Perhaps SC knew Vanessa was doing tryouts with Danny O'Shea in the U.S., and were more than likely hopeful of luring her to Canada instead if they could, especially since Vanessa is already a Canadian citizen. Plus, skaters in Canada have seemed to be embracing Vanessa all along (with the BOTB opportunity, and the diversity conversations with Kaitlyn Weaver, shown during SC's virtual competitions this past season. Vanessa is multinational since she lived in the U.S. when her father worked in the D.C. area. Vanessa and her fraternal twin sister first began learning skating at the lower levels in the U.S. But Vanessa had to make the more beneficial move to Great Britain to pursue a chance to further her career. She won a British national championship in 2006, followed by a silver medal in 2007 at British nationals.

Honestly, SC knows they need to shore up their pairs division while some promising young teams are still developing. While J/R are thinking more toward one season, making the Olympics and then moving on to professional show opportunities, even one season of good results can help SC pairs division. In this respect, Walsh/Michaud should recognize the fact that the tag team of J/R and KMT/MM would have the best opportunity to bring back a third spot for Canada in pairs going forward. So W/M should be thinking about continuing their own improvement and not harboring ill feelings. No matter what, W/M like every other team have to compete to win an Olympic spot, and anything can happen in their Nationals competition, even without the new pairing of J/R pushing the competitive ante.

if what you are insinuating here is correct, that Skate Canada may have influenced this pairing from the BOTB show, then Meagan was definitely wronged by them.

Also, for those who do not know this : julie marcotte was a junior national champion in ice dance in 1989. Do not ask me why I know this i won't answer. She injured herself and her work as a choreographer started working on Bruno's programs. The rest is history.