2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Scott512]

She already did. It seems to be that due to the return of Aliona and Sasha Eteri didn't think the had space for her.

So why didn't PA take her especially since they just unexpectedly lost aliona and sasha?
There are rumoursa Liza has a quad and she already has a personality on the ice so I don't get the problem. I get the numbers game at TT but not at PA.

 

[Jontor]

I've been thinking about World Championships and quota and qualification.

Why not introduce World Championship Semifinal? This contest should be two or three weeks before.

Let's say that the top 10 at Worlds have secured their places directly to the final next year. Keeping the rules we have today would mean for ladies: Russia 3, USA 3, Japan 3, Belgium 2, Austria 2, Korea 2. This is a total of 15 places allocated directly to the final.

Then those federations can send the SAME amount of skaters to the semi final as well. All other federations send their skaters just like they do today through qualification minimums. Let's say that all skaters that reached the free skate in the semi (24) all qualify to Worlds final. Then we would have 39 skaters in the final, which is around what Worlds usually have.

This would mean that potentially Russian ladies could have six ladies in the Worlds Final. Also the US and Japan. But it's no guarantee...ice is slippery and anything can happen in the semi.

I think this would also open up for small feds that only have one good skater. Like Belgium, who with this system would have 2 spots directly to the final and another 2 to the semi (if they have the minimums).

I also think this system will correct itself. Let's say the russian and japanese girls sweep the top 10, then there will only be 6 spots directly to the final next year, so then you can fill in more girls from the semi.

Just a thought. I am not saying this is exactly how it should be, some fine tuning might be needed...

 

[flanker]

I've been thinking about World Championships and quota and qualification.

Why not introduce World Championship Semifinal? This contest should be two or three weeks before.

Let's say that the top 10 at Worlds have secured their places directly to the final next year. Keeping the rules we have today would mean for ladies: Russia 3, USA 3, Japan 3, Belgium 2, Austria 2, Korea 2. This is a total of 15 places allocated directly to the final.

Then those federations can send the SAME amount of skaters to the semi final as well. All other federations send their skaters just like they do today through qualification minimums. Let's say that all skaters that reached the free skate in the semi (24) all qualify to Worlds final. Then we would have 39 skaters in the final, which is around what Worlds usually have.

This would mean that potentially Russian ladies could have six ladies in the Worlds Final. Also the US and Japan. But it's no guarantee...ice is slippery and anything can happen in the semi.

I think this would also open up for small feds that only have one good skater. Like Belgium, who with this system would have 2 spots directly to the final and another 2 to the semi (if they have the minimums).

I also think this system will correct itself. Let's say the russian and japanese girls sweep the top 10, then there will only be 6 spots directly to the final next year, so then you can fill in more girls from the semi.

Just a thought. I am not saying this is exactly how it should be, some fine tuning might be needed...

That's one of the ideas how it dcould be done without taking the international aspect out. Other could be that for instance GP finalists would have free spot for worlds regardless the quotas or something similar.

 

[Scott512]

Switching countries sounds so enticing competitively. Imagine if Maiia for example switched, she would get a free pass into the Olympics as well as all Worlds and Europeans. And the field at the Olympics would only include 3 of the Russians. Heck, even Valieva for example. She wouldn't need to deal with Akatieva/Samodelkina/Zhilina every single Nationals in the future. Having just a few bad days at Nationals can wreck your year. I wonder what the parents of really young novice skaters are thinking.

It isn't just a scenario of skaters that are too bad to podium at Nationals and therefore have no chance at the Olympics doing this. Getting consistent international comps. is a big asset.

Between 2022-2026 I think we'll see really good skaters switch.

I bring up the subject of B and C level Russia. Ladiess switching countries from time to time but only those who can do it. There's no point in fighting the federation about this.

The Russian federation would not stop Nastya G or Nastya T from switching federations I don't think because they ca t beat the top Russian girls. But they would stop Maya. They don't know what Maya is yet and where her potential is. Its possibly very high because she has quads and is just starting to blossom. If this girl gets two good programs next season season watch out!

Silver I also think you are right that after the Olympic season we will see some skaters trying to switch federations and I also think we will see a couple of the girls leave TT depending on how the Olympic season pans out

 

[Scott512]

I've been thinking about World Championships and quota and qualification.

Why not introduce World Championship Semifinal? This contest should be two or three weeks before.

Let's say that the top 10 at Worlds have secured their places directly to the final next year. Keeping the rules we have today would mean for ladies: Russia 3, USA 3, Japan 3, Belgium 2, Austria 2, Korea 2. This is a total of 15 places allocated directly to the final.

Then those federations can send the SAME amount of skaters to the semi final as well. All other federations send their skaters just like they do today through qualification minimums. Let's say that all skaters that reached the free skate in the semi (24) all qualify to Worlds final. Then we would have 39 skaters in the final, which is around what Worlds usually have.

This would mean that potentially Russian ladies could have six ladies in the Worlds Final. Also the US and Japan. But it's no guarantee...ice is slippery and anything can happen in the semi.

I think this would also open up for small feds that only have one good skater. Like Belgium, who with this system would have 2 spots directly to the final and another 2 to the semi (if they have the minimums).

I also think this system will correct itself. Let's say the russian and japanese girls sweep the top 10, then there will only be 6 spots directly to the final next year, so then you can fill in more girls from the semi.

Just a thought. I am not saying this is exactly how it should be, some fine tuning might be needed...

That's a very good compromise and I've mentioned a couple times here over the years I would like you running the International skating union.

You're set up we create extra interest and excitement heading into worlds and then it would carry over through worlds. I like the idea but there's probably a better chance we could do that Europeans and test it out there. That at Europeans which is Russian dominated you only get 3 ladies from Russia and 3 pairs from Russia is a travesty.

 

[Jontor]

That's a very good compromise and I've mentioned a couple times here over the years I would like you running the International skating union.

You're set up we create extra interest and excitement heading into worlds and then it would carry over through worlds. I like the idea but there's probably a better chance we could do that Europeans and test it out there. That at Europeans which is Russian dominated you only get 3 ladies from Russia and 3 pairs from Russia is a travesty.

Well I think this way small feds won't lose interest in Worlds, and the final would truly consist of the best.

Come to think of it, this is what they did with the Eurovision Song Contest. It became too big so they HAD to introduce semi finals. The fear at the beginning was that many countries would lose interest and not enter anymore. That has not been the case as the contest is more popular than ever.

 

[Scott512]

Also - Where would someone like Maiia even go? Any of these girls could dominate in a place like US or Canada, but imagine the scandal. Remember - everything was up the wazzo when Medvedeva dared to go to a non-Russian coach. Now a whole country switch? Imagine that mess...

I think the Russian fans got all that anger out of their system when Zhenya moved to Canada. But she never talked about changing her citizenship so the reaction of the fans was too much. Nobody would blink an eye if Nastya T or Nastya G switched federations The federation would never let a top level girl or guy switch they would have to sit out a year and I think it might even be 2 years now.

I can't believe the sensible Russian sports fans would be upset with one of their athletes who has no future in Russia switching federations to continue their career a few more years.

Also how many millions and millions of Russians have left Russia through centuries started livess had families all around the world. Are they considered traitors? I doubt it.

The bottom line is you gotta do what you gotta do. If people don't like it too damn bad.

 

[silveruskate]

Didn't even know about these release clauses so thanks everyone for that input! Just to say on the record I didn't at all expect Maiia or Kamila to switch.

I'm thinking more about novice skaters with potential or maybe juniors. The easiest way this idea would be completely killed is if Eteri was made head coach of Russian Ladies skating and only Russian ladies could train there.

8 years + of Worlds and 2/3 Olympics guaranteed does not sound bad to me at all.

 

[ELEk3k]

Didn't even know about these release clauses so thanks everyone for that input! Just to say on the record I didn't at all expect Maiia or Kamila to switch.

I'm thinking more about novice skaters with potential or maybe juniors. The easiest way this idea would be completely killed is if Eteri was made head coach of Russian Ladies skating and only Russian ladies could train there.

8 years + of Worlds and 2/3 Olympics guaranteed does not sound bad to me at all.

No please! The more famous schools there are, the more competition and drama! I'm lovin it!

 

[chasingneverland]

Come on. Last time Canadians were this self-confident they were completely destroyed.



Top players of the other countries as well. It's not like only Canadians and Americans are deprived of their best players because of the NHL. Russians, Swedes, Finns, us (when our ice hockey had its level )...



Daria was defeated by Haein Lee at JGP, but at JGPF she was bronze only behind Kamila and Alysa and at junior worlds even silver over Alysa. Comparing her to Haein, she's still improving while Haein (although I think both Koreans were underscored in Stockholm, at least in the SP) isn't (now, of course she can make a progress). Similarly with Maiia. She narrowly didn't reach the medal at junior worlds but the won over the korean and japanese girls who defeated her during the previous JGP series. As you You Young, I'm judging her from what I saw. She can improve again and Daria and Maiia , but while I give a credit to Eteri for being repeatedly able to stabilize her skaters for the decesive tournaments and seasons, I don't think I can say that about the camps responsible for You.



And I do. Agree to disagree.



Then, considering the realistic best for all of them we are back at what I said at the beghinning, for me it is not impossible to see all russian or all Eteri GPF, and I'm also underlining that I don't say it will happen, just that it can happen. If I should give a probability, I would say it is less than 50 %, but more than negligible.



Nope. Take my fellow countrywoman Eliška Březinová. Her chance to get to the olympics (she got it already) is completely different from the 10 or 15 russian ladies who are incomparably better than her. That's the injustice and I am aware I speak about my own country.


Depends on who are those "they". I want the best there. The state will never be ideal and I understand the importance of the represenattion of the countries, but I am for increasing the quotas for the best of them (now the best is Russia, in 20 years it can be a completely different country). If there can be more than three skiers from Norway I would appreciate more entries for skaters from one country too.

For the conlusion, I don't think anything else that would put this under a different light can be said on this topic.

Since Canada has actually send their best to the Olympics so since 1994 they've won gold 3 times. 2006 was like if they sent a team of Evgenia and Liza T. They left their best young players OFF the team.And 2014 they didn't send NHL players. But yes..go on.

And yes agreed. But other countries still have professional hockey players. Russia still had the KHL, etc. (They actually took a break for it so their professional hockey players were available so they still had stars playing at least.) Canada and the US could't even send most of their AHL players. We couldn't even send our gold winning World Juniors team. That's equivalent to sending figure skaters that don't even qualify for the Russian Cup series. Or at least sending figure skaters that didn't make Nationals.

I'm not saying they can't win. I'm saying it's not a given for them too. And can you really stabilize a figure skater with such few competitions?? Daria and Maiia competed ALL season. And they gained consistency. Maiia fell on two triples in her first event this season - she wasn't doing quads yet - and Zayaked a third triple. That's actually fairly comparable to Young You's first skate. Maiia competed 5 times this past season. Maiia also fell twice at her second event. She consistently got better! So Eteri actually gradually stabilized them. Other countries skaters didn't have that chance.

Yes, but Eliška Březinová ONLY got her spot BECAUSE there are limited spots and Russia can only send 3. There are ONLY 30 spots at the Olympics in ladies figure skating. That's NOT an ISU rule. That's an Olympic Organizing Committee rule. That's in place because the Olympics committee wants the Olympics to be smaller to cut down costs mainly and allow for more countries to be able to host it, etc. Eliška placed 22nd at the World's thus giving her a spot. If Russia could have sent 3 more skaters she would be down to 25th. If Japan could have sent 3 more skaters she would be down to 28th. If USA could have sent 2-3 more skaters she would be down to 30-31st. If Young You could have gone too she would be down to 32st. Even a not in peak form Young You outscores 155 (by probably 30 points.) And there you go, Eliška misses the Olympics.

How do you grow a sport when the top 2/3ds of the field are all from 4 countries. How do you encourage children to skate, federations to invest, coaches to coach, when all the remaining countries are competing for maybe 10 spots? Maybe?? And for that matter how do you get skaters in dominant nations to continue to improve when they're all going to go? A lot of the push to rapidly increase technical content is because they have to in order to attempt to claim one of the 3 spots. Anna and Sasha learned quads by pushing each other. Aliona learned her 3A because of fear of being left behind. Maiia and Daria (and literally everyone else) are learning quads and 3As because it's their only chance at making the teams. Wakaba is working on stabilizing her 3A because she needs to to make the 3 person team. Amber Glenn is working on her 3A because she needs to to make the 3 person team. (At WTT when Anna knew she didn't have an equal she went for only one quad. And that was the plan. They're the skaters they are BECAUSE they have to be to make the teams.)

The they is the Olympic organizing committee. As for Norway having a more than three skiiers it's because they have a bunch of different events. They have 4 person events so there are 4 people for that event.

 

[chasingneverland]

Poor kiddo I'm sad for her. But she's a lovely skater with a great personality and I hope she can develop like Sofia Samo has.

We don't actually know if Plushy didn't take her or if she decided to go back. I actually think the second happened. The rumours are Liza B's family was upset at AoP even releasing a video showing her there and asked for it to be removed.

I'm not actually sad. Sergei clearly cares about her. That's important especially as she's still so young.

 

[chasingneverland]

Didn't even know about these release clauses so thanks everyone for that input! Just to say on the record I didn't at all expect Maiia or Kamila to switch.

I'm thinking more about novice skaters with potential or maybe juniors.

Hmm. Well okay. So to switch the country your representing it depends what you're going to. But first your country needs to release you before you can compete for another country. Now, if you're a novice or a lower level junior or lower level senior that happens all the time. If you've never competed internationally, you can just start skating for a different country whenever. So if you're a lower ranked skater or a novice it's going to be much easier for the Fed to release you.

The issues start arising when you've skated internationally. If that's happened, the ISU requires you to sit out of competition for one year (following being released by your Fed). Now, if you're a national team member, it's going to be much more difficult to get the Fed to release you. Of course, by the time the Fed releases you a full year might have passed and then you can skate for the new country whenever you want. But the Fed could simply refuse to release you. But their isn't really a set time that is required, that's more down to Fed politics and pettiness. (Some Federations offer money to other Federations to get them to release skaters.)

However, for the IOC (Olympics) it's not just a matter of the Fed releasing you and sitting out of competition for a year. You actually have to have citizenship to compete at the Olympics for that country.

So for Kamila she'd never leave - the Russian Fed would never release her. For Maiia they might have a year ago - I mean if her own coach was saying switch to ice dance, the Fed might actually have been like okay. Yes, she was a national team member but there is no ISU rule that she has to sit out for 2 years (it's just one year for the ISU). IF the RusFed wanted to release her they could - or they could refuse but also refuse to send her to events.

Of course, this is all a moot point, because it's impossible at this stage anyway even if they did get the Russian Fed to release her.

As for novice skaters and depth skaters that happens all the time. Elizabet choose to represent Kazakstan - mainly due to the Russian ladies depth. (It helped that she never competed internationally for Russia). Her family is also from Kazakstan even though she herself is born and raised in Russia so it's also easy for her to compete in the Olympics. (If she makes it.) Morisi competed as a junior and his first two years as a senior for Russia so he requested to be released and they released him. He then got Georgia citizenship so he can go to the Olympics. Anastasiia S kinda messed up her own career in Russia but never competed internationally. Russia released her super easily (I think they wanted nothing to do with her) so she could compete for Ukraine. Little Ekaterina was also getting lost in the Russian juniors depth chart. She got released to skate for Poland. She did have to sit out for a while because she competed internationally as a novice and a junior. But someone actually paid for her to be coached by Brian Orser. And she's a cutie. Soo many other examples.

So it does happen.

 

[Novalis]

We don't actually know if Plushy didn't take her or if she decided to go back. I actually think the second happened. The rumours are Liza B's family was upset at AoP even releasing a video showing her there and asked for it to be removed.

I'm not actually sad. Sergei clearly cares about her. That's important especially as she's still so young.

This is almost certainly the case. There was at least a word that Plushies rink is at an inconvinient location for her. And besides, never mind Liza's weaknesses, she'd still be a star at AoP. No way Plushie would turn that down

 

[chasingneverland]

This is almost certainly the case. There was at least a word that Plushies rink is at an inconvinient location for her. And besides, never mind Liza's weaknesses, she'd still be a star at AoP. No way Plushie would turn that down

Yeah that's what I'm inclined to think too. I would think if anything AoP would want a young star there. That's why I don't actually feel sorry for her. I think she made the choice to go back. And with the flux around AoP right now and knowing her old coaches have taken her this far, I think it's the best place for her. (For the record, I don't think Eteri is the best place for her rn even if they had decided to take her. It's just too busy right now and she wouldn't get the focus she needs at this stage. The other girls have grown up with it.)

 

[icybear]

So has Evgenia been dropped by Nike judging by her new sponsor with another sportswear called Ozon? And she no longer has Nike in her bio with her other sponsors.

 

[ELEk3k]

So has Evgenia been dropped by Nike judging by her new sponsor with another sportswear called Ozon? And she no longer has Nike in her bio with her other sponsors.

Ozon it's Russian analogue of Ebay or Alliexpress.

 

[starlight97]

Question about funding/national team: if I understand correctly that there is a pretty limited number spots on the senior national team (6?) and this season to keep their funding Alina and Evgenia were still on it and it passed cause there were not too many actually active senior ladies to take up those spots. But next year it will be Alena, Sasha, Anna, Liza, Kamila, Darya, Maya for sure. So what happens to Alina and Evgenia?

They list them as alternates so they can keep their funding? Do they actually keep it as alternates o is it reduced? And if they lose the funding, how big of a deal is that actually for those two that have pretty decent incomes from media, sponsors and shows?

 

[JazzUp]

So has Evgenia been dropped by Nike judging by her new sponsor with another sportswear called Ozon? And she no longer has Nike in her bio with her other sponsors.

OZON is one of RusFed sponsors; and more an analogue of Amazon.

 

[chasingneverland]

So has Evgenia been dropped by Nike judging by her new sponsor with another sportswear called Ozon? And she no longer has Nike in her bio with her other sponsors.

Probably just that her contract was up and they didn't renew it. She hasn't skated in a while unfortunately. She isn't on the Nike Europe athlete website unless I missed her?

I wonder if they'll sign another Russian ladies figure skater. They already have Anna (she's also on the website) but will they add another??

 

[[email protected]]

For me keeping the rules as they are is already good news. Russia can get all GPF, there are multiple challengers to send different skaters there. And with the quota of 3 the Olympics podium sweep is more than feasible. After that team B can be sent to the worlds to compete for the second sweep. I just hope that ISU don't devise "improvements" in the rules.

The argument of other countries' being able to create the miracle off-season is weak. They could not do it pre coronavirus - why would they be able to do it now? The only "rays of hope" were Alysa and Rika. But Alysa is very different after the puberty. With her the focus has shifted to "better artistry". Alas, these are the words when jumps are no longer there. And with Rika I said already more than once that the age of superstars like Michelle, Yuna, Mao, Caro, etc. is gone. Those superstars would fail now vs. the new Russian crops. You can call them "products", "robots", "conveyor", "sonograms", whatever. All these terms are just the mask for jealosy, unhappinness, desperation. There is a system now with 5+ top level skaters in Russia. All of them are human beings with their life stories, illnesses, injuries, dramas, etc. The point is that out of them 3 will compete at a given championship and they will be those who are most ready at a given point of time. It's a machine as they named it during TV1 cup. Having just 1 "superstar" who is not better than any of those skaters you won't be able to compete with The Machine.

Come on. Who will jump quads next season? Rika? Well, many hoped that she is "The one", the hope dies last as they say. Rika had her best chance in Saitama in 2019. The gap between her and the top Russians is just getting wider. Who else? Looks like no one.

And that makes me nervous. The status quo is way too obvious for some people to take actions against it changing the rules. That's why I want everything to stay the way it is now. От добра добра не ищут - do not mess with success...