Jackson Premiere Fusion 2800 vs. Jackson Elite Pro 5320

[1111bm]

Hi everyone,
so here I am asking yet another boot question...
I'm still on a quest of finding a 'classic' leather boot without crazy-triples-rated stiffness, ideally by Jackson, to replace my old Jackson boots (the government's covid measures kinda put a halt to all skating or shopping-related endeavours for the past 7-8 months, so I haven't been able to do much about it)

I've found these boots on Jackson's page, which seem to be a softer version of the regular Elites?

Supreme Pro 5320

Jackson Support Rating: Strong Support - Level 65 Designed for Coaches and Show Skaters FEATURES: Premium Suede upper made on Jackson’s Elite last High performance microfiber lining with memory foam is moisture-wicking and treated with anti-bacterial properties to keep feet warm and comfortable...

jacksonultima.com

And I've been wondering if anyone here has any experience with or knowledge of these? Maybe also how they compare to the Premiere Fusions?

Premiere Fusion 2800

Jackson Support Rating: Firm Support - Level 65 See Fit Guide Here FEATURES:Our Premiere model has been redesigned to provide the Jackson Wrap System, with extra wrap over the instep for better fit and security on all widths. Off-set hooks provide more security and stability around the ankle...

jacksonultima.com

The reason I'm asking this is, both boots have the same stiffness rating of 65, but afaik the padding on Jackson's Fusion series is different from their 5000 series (never mind the overall construction)? So I imagine they would still feel different in terms of stiffness and those softer Elites might still be 'too much' boot for someone like me, since they're based on the regular Elites, i.e boots too advanced for me?

So just for reference, my current old boots are the old leather competitors by Jackson, stiffness level 55 (and I've never felt like I need more support than that).
I haven't had a chance to try on the Premiere Fusions, but I did try on the Debut Fusions with a rating of 50, and they felt sort of flimsy and much softer than my old boots, even though they were new, which I put down to the different padding inside. The Fusion series seem to use a very squishy, yielding foam, which I don't enjoy very much (and it wouldn't be much of a change/upgrade from my current boots with their old and compressed-due-to-age padding inside)

I'm not keen on having beige boots (or crystals on them), but those Elites would be less expensive than full customs (which seems to be the only other option for me), so that's why I'm considering them.
(Then again, a not-so-polite Jackson sales rep told me in an e-mail, that a full custom boot with a stiffness of 55, based on the Elite boot, would cost around 600 EUR... er, I don't think so...? Not sure why she gave me such misleading info...)

Hoping someone on here might have some insights.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hi everyone,
so here I am asking yet another boot question...
I'm still on a quest of finding a 'classic' leather boot without crazy-triples-rated stiffness, ideally by Jackson, to replace my old Jackson boots (the government's covid measures kinda put a halt to all skating or shopping-related endeavours for the past 7-8 months, so I haven't been able to do much about it)

I've found these boots on Jackson's page, which seem to be a softer version of the regular Elites?

Supreme Pro 5320

Jackson Support Rating: Strong Support - Level 65 Designed for Coaches and Show Skaters FEATURES: Premium Suede upper made on Jackson’s Elite last High performance microfiber lining with memory foam is moisture-wicking and treated with anti-bacterial properties to keep feet warm and comfortable...

jacksonultima.com

And I've been wondering if anyone here has any experience with or knowledge of these? Maybe also how they compare to the Premiere Fusions?

Premiere Fusion 2800

Jackson Support Rating: Firm Support - Level 65 See Fit Guide Here FEATURES:Our Premiere model has been redesigned to provide the Jackson Wrap System, with extra wrap over the instep for better fit and security on all widths. Off-set hooks provide more security and stability around the ankle...

jacksonultima.com

The reason I'm asking this is, both boots have the same stiffness rating of 65, but afaik the padding on Jackson's Fusion series is different from their 5000 series (never mind the overall construction)? So I imagine they would still feel different in terms of stiffness and those softer Elites might still be 'too much' boot for someone like me, since they're based on the regular Elites, i.e boots too advanced for me?

So just for reference, my current old boots are the old leather competitors by Jackson, stiffness level 55 (and I've never felt like I need more support than that).
I haven't had a chance to try on the Premiere Fusions, but I did try on the Debut Fusions with a rating of 50, and they felt sort of flimsy and much softer than my old boots, even though they were new, which I put down to the different padding inside. The Fusion series seem to use a very squishy, yielding foam, which I don't enjoy very much (and it wouldn't be much a change/upgrade from my current boots with their old and compressed-due-to-age padding inside)

I'm not keen on having beige boots (or crystals on them), but those Elites would be less expensive than full customs (which seems to be the only other option for me), so that's why I'm considering them.
(Then again, a not-so-polite Jackson sales rep told me in an e-mail, that a full custom boot with a stiffness of 55, based on the Elite boot, would cost around 600 EUR... er, I don't think so...? Not sure why she gave me such misleading info...)

Hoping someone on here might have some insights.

Refresh my memory with what your skill set is. What jumps etc are you currently doing?

 

[1111bm]

Refresh my memory with what your skill set is. What jumps etc are you currently doing?

Hm, I mostly work on footwork (Double 3s, Choctaws, Rockers/Counters/Brackets, Twizzles, Loops, Crossrolls...). I'd say I have relatively strong knee bend for a low level adult skater, but I don't have much strength, if that makes sense. Wouldnt call myself a 'boot destroyer'. ;D

As for jumps, up to single (F)Lutz . Not sure I'll ever work up the courage to even attempt single Axel, but I plan on at least finally trying in the near future (Lockdown has kinda worn me down).
I'm not very heavy though (around 50-52 kg I guess?), so I always need to factor that in when considering boot models.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hm, I mostly work on footwork (Double 3s, Choctaws, Rockers/Counters/Brackets, Twizzles, Loops, Crossrolls...). I'd say I have relatively strong knee bend for a low level adult skater, but I don't have much strength, if that makes sense. Wouldnt call myself a 'boot destroyer'. ;D

As for jumps, up to single (F)Lutz . Not sure I'll ever work up the courage to even attempt single Axel, but I plan on at least finally trying in the near future (Lockdown has kinda worn me down).
I'm not very heavy though (around 50-52 kg I guess?), so I always need to factor that in when considering boot models.

Ok so, if you want a leather boot upper you're going to have to either go with one more step up with is the elite 5300 with the 75 stiffness rating. You can try a pair on and see what you think. Since you have your singles and they are rated for up to doubles, and you have great knee bend you should be okay. I usually don't suggest anything like this, I'd honesly love to keep you in a 65 stiffness rated boot, but the two you are looking at one is suede and the other is synthetic. No leather. Your other option besides looking at the elite 5300 is going semi custom and choosing a white leather boot (I presume you want white), made on the elite 5300 but with your stiffness needs.

I hope this was helpful. Good luck!

 

[1111bm]

Thank you for answering. It's reassuring to hear that 65 won't necessarily be too much for me, because I'm already wary about going from 55 -> 65 (never mind 75).

...but the two you are looking at one is suede and the other is synthetic. No leather.

This is right, but the suede is still different from the synthetic materials, that they use on their Fusion series. And I assume that construction-wise and in terms of the padding inside, the suede ones are the same as Jackson's classic leather models, right? Which is what I'm looking for.

I just don't feel enough of a 'grip' around my feet with the padding of the Fusion series boots, I miss that feeling of being more cushioned. They also feel somehow less supportive since the materials are not hugging my feet the same way that my old boots (used to) do.

Your other option besides looking at the elite 5300 is going semi custom and choosing a white leather boot (I presume you want white), made on the elite 5300 but with your stiffness needs.

I assume you meant to say 'full' custom here, is that right? Because as far as I'm aware, changing the stiffness of a boot isn't part of their semi custom program, I guess because it requires them to remove/add some of the layers within the premade boot uppers, which is more time-consuming and they can't just use an already existing upper and sew it together with the remaining boot parts.

I was just confused about the price point of a full custom boot based on the Elite. Because I've seen posters repeatedly mention that it starts at 950 USD, but Jackson told me that it would cost 600 EUR ( = about 700 USD), which doesn't make sense, since that's already the cost of the regular 'off-the-rack' Elite without any custom changes to them.

Our local Jackson dealer has never even heard of the semi custom option, much less full custom, so he won't have the experience to advise me on this and the price for it. Although my E-Mail to Jackson apparently prompted Jackson to send him some info on it, but the fact still remains, that he's never done it before (plus he was planning on closing his shop in the near future, so I'm not sure he's interested in exploring custom options just for one customer).

ETA: Scratch that, I've just talked to him, he doesn't think it's possible to get full customs in Europe (although their sales rep sure made it sound as if it's available in their E-mail to me) and he himself still doesn't know anything about it or how to even go about it.

Getting my hands on any of the Elite models to try them on, without being stuck with buying them, seems also hopeless...

 

[Sibelius]

I was just confused about the price point of a full custom boot based on the Elite. Because I've seen posters repeatedly mention that it starts at 950 USD, but Jackson told me that it would cost 600 EUR ( = about 700 USD), which doesn't make sense, since that's already the cost of the regular 'off-the-rack' Elite without any custom changes to them.

Makes no sense at all. I ordered a pair of full customs 3 weeks ago here in the U.S. and it was $950. You are right, the retail on the stock Elites is $749, so a custom pair for less? Ridiculous. And, you are correct that any change in stiffness requires a full custom. Rapid custom is: width changes, sole choice (LCL, Fusion, LCF), and tongue choice. As far as I know that's it, everything else is full custom. Is there no dealer that will order you an Elite to try? You'd have to pay a restock and shipping, but it might be worth the cost.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Hmmm...you really might want to ask around more about the padding thing. Seems to me the skaters I know of in higher Jacksons (5000 line) complain about the boots now having way less padding than the 2000 line boots (people who've been skating in them for awhile and have seen the change in padding style). I think you might need to get full customs to get what you're looking for.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hmmm...you really might want to ask around more about the padding thing. Seems to me the skaters I know of in higher Jacksons (5000 line) complain about the boots now having way less padding than the 2000 line boots (people who've been skating in them for awhile and have seen the change in padding style). I think you might need to get full customs to get what you're looking for.

They do now lol!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thank you for answering. It's reassuring to hear that 65 won't necessarily be too much for me, because I'm already wary about going from 55 -> 65 (never mind 75).



This is right, but the suede is still different from the synthetic materials, that they use on their Fusion series. And I assume that construction-wise and in terms of the padding inside, the suede ones are the same as Jackson's classic leather models, right? Which is what I'm looking for.

I just don't feel enough of a 'grip' around my feet with the padding of the Fusion series boots, I miss that feeling of being more cushioned. They also feel somehow less supportive since the materials are not hugging my feet the same way that my old boots (used to) do.



I assume you meant to say 'full' custom here, is that right? Because as far as I'm aware, changing the stiffness of a boot isn't part of their semi custom program, I guess because it requires them to remove/add some of the layers within the premade boot uppers, which is more time-consuming and they can't just use an already existing upper and sew it together with the remaining boot parts.

I was just confused about the price point of a full custom boot based on the Elite. Because I've seen posters repeatedly mention that it starts at 950 USD, but Jackson told me that it would cost 600 EUR ( = about 700 USD), which doesn't make sense, since that's already the cost of the regular 'off-the-rack' Elite without any custom changes to them.

Our local Jackson dealer has never even heard of the semi custom option, much less full custom, so he won't have the experience to advise me on this and the price for it. Although my E-Mail to Jackson apparently prompted Jackson to send him some info on it, but the fact still remains, that he's never done it before (plus he was planning on closing his shop in the near future, so I'm not sure he's interested in exploring custom options just for one customer).

ETA: Scratch that, I've just talked to him, he doesn't think it's possible to get full customs in Europe (although their sales rep sure made it sound as if it's available in their E-mail to me) and he himself still doesn't know anything about it or how to even go about it.

Getting my hands on any of the Elite models to try them on, without being stuck with buying them, seems also hopeless...

I apologize that it has taken me so long to reply as yesterday was very busy for me.

The section of your reply that I bolded. I intended to say what I said in the first reply to you, last I knew you could get all those things in a semi-custom, but Jackson changes things so often it's sometimes hard to say what you can even get now. I know they used to do what I had mentioned. If they won't adjust the stiffness in a semi-custom you should at least be able to choose white leather over nude suede, which is not like the leather you seem to want. (FYI--I have worn the white leather traditional Jackson boot in past at elite competition level, and the nude suede as a pro and they are quite different).

I hope this all works out for you, you might be looking at a different boot brand if the Jackson doesn't work out for you with what you want. Anything else you need or want to discuss on this topic, my inbox is open for more specifics if need be.

Good luck!

 

[1111bm]

I apologize that it has taken me so long to reply as yesterday was very busy for me.

The section of your reply that I bolded. I intended to say what I said in the first reply to you, last I knew you could get all those things in a semi-custom, but Jackson changes things so often it's sometimes hard to say what you can even get now. I know they used to do what I had mentioned. If they won't adjust the stiffness in a semi-custom you should at least be able to choose white leather over nude suede, which is not like the leather you seem to want. (FYI--I have worn the white leather traditional Jackson boot in past at elite competition level, and the nude suede as a pro and they are quite different).

I hope this all works out for you, you might be looking at a different boot brand if the Jackson doesn't work out for you with what you want. Anything else you need or want to discuss on this topic, my inbox is open for more specifics if need be.

Good luck!

Oh no worries, no one is obligated to answer me at all, and if they do, it's hopefully when it's convenient for them.

It's really a shame if Jackson changed what they offer in a semi custom boot, especially considering the much higher cost of a full custom, but then it seems unrealistic to get any custom options at all where I live, so ultimately it doesn't matter I guess. Although if the Elites don't work for me I might ask around shops in the UK or Netherlands in hopes of maybe finding a Jackson dealer, that does offer a full custom option outside of North America after all.

After some searching around I've managed to track down an austrian online shop that stocks both kinds of Jackson Elites in my size (also the prior model with possibly the old style padding, or so I hope) and they're returnable when I pay the shipping costs.
Elites are really hard to get by in Europe since there's little to no demand for them it seems, they're usually special order everywhere and then there's usually no return option.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Oh no worries, no one is obligated to answer me at all, and if they do, it's hopefully when it's convenient for them.

It's really a shame if Jackson changed what they offer in a semi custom boot, especially considering the much higher cost of a full custom, but then it seems unrealistic to get any custom options at all where I live, so ultimately it doesn't matter I guess. Although if the Elites don't work for me I might ask around shops in the UK or Netherlands in hopes of maybe finding a Jackson dealer, that does offer a full custom option outside of North America after all.

After some searching around I've managed to track down an austrian online shop that stocks both kinds of Jackson Elites in my size (also the prior model with possibly the old style padding, or so I hope) and they're returnable when I pay the shipping costs.
Elites are really hard to get by in Europe since there's little to no demand for them it seems, they're usually special order everywhere and then there's usually no return option.

If those (in Austria) don't work or have the old style padding, you might want to consider trying a Risport since they're European company and may work for you. I stopped wearing my Jackson singles boot and went to a Risport since they could give me what I needed and I was already wearing their dance boots for years.

 

[1111bm]

Hmmm...you really might want to ask around more about the padding thing. Seems to me the skaters I know of in higher Jacksons (5000 line) complain about the boots now having way less padding than the 2000 line boots (people who've been skating in them for awhile and have seen the change in padding style). I think you might need to get full customs to get what you're looking for.

Oh no less padding than the Fusion Series... I mean, it's not so much that the Fusion boots have little padding, just that it's so soft and... I've already mentioned this in another thread, when I tried them on they were comfortable like house shoes, like they were already broken in (especially comparing them to my old boots when they were new) but they also felt flimsy, for lack of a better word, like recreational boots. I didn't get a close fit with them, even though they were my size and width.

 

[1111bm]

If those (in Austria) don't work or have the old style padding, you might want to consider trying a Risport since they're European company and may work for you. I stopped wearing my Jackson singles boot and went to a Risport since they could give me what I needed and I was already wearing their dance boots for years.

I was actually dead set on RF3s as my new boots.
They seemed perfectly suited for my needs, their price is unbeatable, their stiffness suits my level perfectly, they're classic leather built boots.
And even though our local fitter said that I have a typical Jackson foot in terms of shape, he also said that RF3s supposedly fit a wide array of foot shapes and that many people can make them work for themselves.

But last year I spent two hours in our local shop trying on all kinds of Risport boots (RF3, Royal Pros, RF1 even at the recommendation of the fitter), and each of them in different sizes and widths, but none of them seemed to fit my foot right. Especially the heel just wouldn't sit right in any of them, but also the lack of a split width was a problem. I was, and still am, severely heartbroken that they didn't work out for me. I will keep the Risport split width custom option in mind though, as a last resort. There is a slight chance that the heel would settle in better in the boot once the padding is broken in, hard to tell when trying on a brand new boot in a shop.

 

[Elenea]

Hey, I am new here, but maybe I can help
Last fall I had to replace my leather Jackson Premiere boots and since I did not like the "plastic" feeling of the new Premieres, I changed to the Elite Pro 5320. One thing to consider is that you probably need a new fitting. My fitter ordered the same size as my old boots (both 6R)
and they still fit differently. The heel pocket was so small that my heels went numb first. The tip is not as round as before (less space for toes of the same lenght) and I also think that the heel is higher as it really hurted my arches before I got new insoles (never needed them before).
Since I live in Germany I probably went to the Austrian shop you mentioned. Be careful when ordering from the EU, there is still kind of chaos due to Brexit. I ordered skate pants from UK and they were stuck in customs for weeks.

 

[Elenea]

Oh and what I have forgotten to mention. The tongue is a lot thicker than at the older Premieres and really hard? It's not really stiffer, I am able to bend my knee and go into a sit spin the same way as before, but it is really hard to fold it around your foot and ankle and therefore harder to lace the boot tight enough.
Here is a side by side picture of both boots for comparison (remember same size, same width)

 

[1111bm]

Hey, I am new here, but maybe I can help
Last fall I had to replace my leather Jackson Premiere boots and since I did not like the "plastic" feeling of the new Premieres, I changed to the Elite Pro 5320. One thing to consider is that you probably need a new fitting. My fitter ordered the same size as my old boots (both 6R)
and they still fit differently. The heel pocket was so small that my heels went numb first. The tip is not as round as before (less space for toes of the same lenght) and I also think that the heel is higher as it really hurted my arches before I got new insoles (never needed them before).
Since I live in Germany I probably went to the Austrian shop you mentioned. Be careful when ordering from the EU, there is still kind of chaos due to Brexit. I ordered skate pants from UK and they were stuck in customs for weeks.

Send you a DM.

 

[berry]

Oh and what I have forgotten to mention. The tongue is a lot thicker than at the older Premieres and really hard? It's not really stiffer, I am able to bend my knee and go into a sit spin the same way as before, but it is really hard to fold it around your foot and ankle and therefore harder to lace the boot tight enough.
Here is a side by side picture of both boots for comparison (remember same size, same width)

How are you liking the Elite Pros overall, once you started skating on them? Any further advantages or disadvantages? Thank you for your feedback!

 

[Elenea]

Yes, after a few modifications I started to really like them (custom made insoles, a bit of stretching at the ball area). The Matrix insoles which came with the boot did not fit the heel pocket at all, they were much to wide and I always stood on the edges of the crumpled insoles which resulted in a numb heel.
What is really great is that the fusion sole is more shock absorbing, landing jumps feels so much softer now.
The beige laces are a pain tough, there are much more likely to cut your fingers than the white laces. I use a wooden stick now to pull the laces tight...
But overall I would not want to change back to my old boots (exept maybe for the 5 hook pattern, I really loved that part of the Premieres).

 

[Sibelius]

Yes, after a few modifications I started to really like them (custom made insoles, a bit of stretching at the ball area). The Matrix insoles which came with the boot did not fit the heel pocket at all, they were much to wide and I always stood on the edges of the crumpled insoles which resulted in a numb heel.
What is really great is that the fusion sole is more shock absorbing, landing jumps feels so much softer now.
The beige laces are a pain tough, there are much more likely to cut your fingers than the white laces. I use a wooden stick now to pull the laces tight...
But overall I would not want to change back to my old boots (exept maybe for the 5 hook pattern, I really loved that part of the Premieres).

We just ordered pair of customs, mostly modeled after her Premiere, same stiffness, but leather, and that firmer tongue. Surprisingly to me she wanted to keep the 5 hooks! We chose the LCF, which her fitter said is more flexible for blade mounting. We'll see about the shock absorption, I asked and he told me that's really not where the shock absorption should be.

 

[Elenea]

Hey,
I am not sure if the shock absorbtion is in the heel but since I used the old insoles of the Premieres before I got my custom insoles, it has to do something with the boot I guess. The big difference between the boots is the sole (thicker), the heel and the tongue but the latter should not make a difference in feeling a softer landing at the sole of my feet