Cup of Russia Ladies Outrage (possible spoilers)

[museksk8r]

And at the past 3 Worlds, she messed up the SP, sometimes very badly.

Not exactly. Technically, her 2005 Worlds SP was clean. Here's the youtube to prove it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5UxSHrL1_R8
'06 and '07 were where the mistakes occurred.

Joannie has the power to change that. Moaning over getting a 'bad' set of GPs isn't the way to do it. Even if her fans won't acknowledge that Joannie herself has to take responsibility for her failure to make the GPF, I am sure that Joannie herself knows why she didn't make the GPF and accepts that responsibility. I just hope that she's going to take steps to change the way she approaches her SPs. She must do that if she wants to meet her goal of making the Olympic podium in 2010.

Absolutely, she has the power to change how she approaches the SP and no, I am not aware of Joannie "moaning" over her GP selections anywhere in the press, but I, as a fan, am giving my realistic opinion that had the stars aligned differently in her GP selections, the GP Final story would be very different.

 

[chuckm]

I don't recall Joannie moaning over bad set of GPs. It is her whiny fans including myself in Canada doing it - there is some truism to it too.

I didn't say Joannie was doing the moaning. She knows darned well why she didn't make the GPF. It's Joannie's fans doing the moaning and handwringing.

But her fans don't do Joannie any great service by making excuses for her. Joannie MUST get her act together where the SPs are concerned or she will continue to disappoint her fans.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I don't understand how you can claim otherwise when it's a fact that Yu-Na Kim, Mao Asada, and Yukari Nakano were the 3 highest point scorers in the ladies' Grand Prix Series.

By definition, each host Federation has to choose one skater from the top 3 seeds and one skater from seeds 4-6. Skate Canada did not have an option to leave out one of Meissner, Kostner, or Nakano. With a 10th place finish at Worlds, she couldn't even block the selection of one of 7-9 (Meier, Poykio, Hughes). The same was true of the Russian Federation and every other host nation.

If Rochette wants to be a top seed at her events, she needs to place higher at Worlds, so that she takes up one of the seeded slots.

Odds were against Nakano out-scoring Ando and Meissner based on last year's results, but each year some skaters overachieve and some skaters underachieve (sometimes for illness or injury, like Korpi and Poykio). The event selection process was fair; Rochette didn't perform well enough to qualify. If Ando hadn't skated so poorly, Rochette would be one rung down the alternate ladder.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Not exactly. Technically, her 2005 Worlds SP was clean. Here's the youtube to prove it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5UxSHrL1_R8
'06 and '07 were where the mistakes occurred. .

2005 was her best chance, but she did not have a clean LP, and she dropped out of contention.

 

[fourclover]

Well you don"t know how she would have skated either. Joannie does"t flutz , lip underroate or cheat on her jumps, so if she ever does a clean short program i hope she gets rewarded. As far as missing the G P Final thats the way it goes.

But skaters who "flutz , lip underroate or cheat on her jumps" get punished in their GOE scores too. Sometimes I wish Joannie would do all of the above than not splat most of her jumps. Being downgraded for the wrong edge is better in terms of points than missing the entire jump.

 

[bellafurr]

What ladies did have clean short programs this year. Just wondering?

 

[museksk8r]

But skaters who "flutz , lip underroate or cheat on her jumps" get punished in their GOE scores too. Sometimes I wish Joannie would do all of the above than not splat most of her jumps. Being downgraded for the wrong edge is better in terms of points than missing the entire jump.

What are you talking about - "splatting" her jumps? She's fallen exactly ONCE this season in competition, Cup of Russia SP. Are you getting her confused with Alissa Czisny?

 

[oleada]

What ladies did have clean short programs this year. Just wondering?

Laura Lepisto at Skate Canada
Elena Glebova at TEB
Zhang at CoC
Nakano, Korpi and Gerboldt at CoR
Alissa Czisny at NHK

Those are the only ones I can think of at the top of my head.

 

[chuckm]

There was a QR in 2005, and Joannie finished 5th in her group, tying her for 10th place overall. Her SP was clean, but so were 8 others, so she was 9th in the SP and 9th overall. She had problems in her Olympic SP, her Worlds 2006 SP and her Worlds 2007 SP.

 

[passion]

I am being sarcastic and will repeat the same line that the yuna camp has been reciting over the years. The following points will save a few pages of the ongoing discussion from resurfacing over and over again, if you bother to get in there.

1. the quality of her jumps are second to none: she gets huge GOE for the quality of the jumps. Nobody else's jumps are as good as hers.
2. she does triple flip - tripe toe. Nobody else came even close to it.
3. she does double axel and triple toe: although her blades are often stuck in the middle of the rotation. but it is irrelevant.
3. she has such extraordinary musicality
4. she has such a beautiful body line; having long limbs makes a line beautiful
5. her spiral has improved tremendously from the last season.

I can tell you nobody will beat her this season. So, just take it or leave it.

But what about Mao? I think the same things can be said of Mao. BTW, I prefer Yu over Mao, but I think they are both exceptional skaters.

Yukari probably has nice aspects to her skating, but Yu Na is clearly in a class of her own.

 

[fumie_fumie]

chuckm,

You are absolutely right. Joannie is not necessary SP skater. She then came back strong in 2007 worlds FS, 2006 Olympics FS.

This year is so far the same story; her FS have been fairly clean except for a few minor mistakes at the end of the program.

Sometimes, it is a bit frustrating watching her so close to the podium of international events and not making it for years.

 

[fourclover]

What are you talking about - "splatting" her jumps? She's fallen exactly ONCE this season in competition, Cup of Russia SP. Are you getting her confused with Alissa Czisny?

Ooops, you are right. A big sorry. I didn't really pay attention to Joannie's SP except that it was not so good compared to her kick-*** FS.

 

[JPierce]

(Geez, this turned into a Joannie Rochette thread...)

As far as Nakano - I would like to understand the massive problem people have with her leg wrap. Is that some kind of common, amateur mistake? Personally, I like it, at least the extent to which she did it at Cup of Russia. It's different. If she lands the jump clean, why does it matter?? Is this just conformity, or am I missing something...

 

[Eddie Lee]

Joannies skating has really grown on me.  In my opinion she is a legitimate threat for International bronze medals.  I prefer her to Kimmie by far.  She is a more well-rounded and refined than skater than Emily.  More dependable than Alissa.  On the scale of ability, she will have to do battle with Carolina K. and Sara M--but moreso with Miki A. Joannie's skating is aggressive, but understated and she really has to on bring her best (which is really quite wonderful) to be really competitive. A sound 3/3 would gain her more attention as well. But, as I've said elsewhere, Yu Na and Mao are in a class to themselves.  They can bobble and flutz a bit, but they will still win as has been proven over and over again.  They can be beaten (a la World's 2007) but they usually have to make much bigger mistakes than those who luckily (but rarely) beat them.  Their jumps, their positions, their speed, their quiet flow on the ice, their poise and musicality are exceptional.  That said, Yu Na sometimes pops jumps and has problems with her back.  Mao has jump issues (not a full repertoire and a flutz).  But they both have that special aura on the ice in addition to all of their positive skills.  I hope both are around for years.  It is phenomenal  to have two such skaters on the scene at once.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I am horrified by most things CoP
I was flipping channels and came in in the middle of Yu-Na Kim's free skate. I didn't know it was Yu-Na Kim however (haven't seen her this season). I thought "Well that skater has some potential, if only she could fix some of her junior-ish tendencies." Her jumps in the air were lovely things. The landings seemed a little insecure at times. She had some moments when she connected well with the music. However her hunched stroking posture and pumping strokes were distracting as was her tendency to telegraph her jumps (or at least drop all pretense at choreography well prior to the jumps).
At least from what I saw I would have never figured her for the new goddess of all things skating.hwell:Mine is not to reason why...mine is to either embrace CoP or stick with local skating.

:agree::agree: Yes. I will say that Yu-na's 3/3 was a thing of beauty. She get s such speed coming out of it,.. really one-of a kind there. However, as the program progessed, she had a loto f slow, scrachy landings. Her spirals are nothing special and her seems to be ashamned of her height... she hunches foward a lot on in her skating.

(Geez, this turned into a Joannie Rochette thread...)

As far as Nakano - I would like to understand the massive problem people have with her leg wrap. Is that some kind of common, amateur mistake? Personally, I like it, at least the extent to which she did it at Cup of Russia. It's different. If she lands the jump clean, why does it matter?? Is this just conformity, or am I missing something...

If you are missing somthing... i am missing the same thing. I really dont get the big fuss. To me, you might as well say you can't skate clockwise, because then you would be landing on your left leg, not your right.

 

[mizu_iro]

It's not like Yukari's spiral is much better than Yu-Na's, with better amplitude but a noticeably bent free leg. Also, although I personally don't mind Yukari's wrap, it does make her rotation very slow and rob a lot of flow from her landings.

I also don't feel at ALL that Yukari's footwork is better than Yu-Na's; it was nicely done to the music, but Yu-Na's footwork is much more varied and despite the very difficult edgework at the end, she retained flow and made everything look easy. Yukari's never received very high marks for her footwork; in contrast, Tarasova wondered whether Yu-Na would receive a Level 4 on hers.

Yukari does have a very clear edge in spins (my favorite spinner currently) but Yu-Na's spins are none too shabby, either - good speed and centering, and decent positions including a REAL sit-position that she got over the summer. Maybe that's the problem- she was so smooth it was boring?

And a judging error in the SP? Yukari did two triples to Yu-Na's three. Yukari's footwork was noticeably slower and simpler. It was a huge mistake for Yukari to skate to the same music as Mao in the same season - Mao is just too good for Yukari to compare favorably.

 

[Skye]

Yukari may have attempted 7 triples, but she was ratified with only 5 and IMO she was lucky with that as the 3A was also quite questionable. (Actually Weir's 2nd 3A in his long program which was downgraded looked more rotated than that of Nakano.) With or without the leg wrap, Nakano's skating skills, transitions and choreography is far behind Kim AND Rochette. If anyone wuzrobbed at Cup of Russia, it's Joannie.

 

[Bennett]

With or without the leg wrap, Nakano's skating skills, transitions and choreography is far behind Kim AND Rochette. If anyone wuzrobbed at Cup of Russia, it's Joannie.

That may be true. But when I compare her with Miki (who looks worse than Yukari) and Fumie (who looks much better than Yukari), it's difficult to tell what's the real factor that determines PCS. I feel that she will increase her PCS when her jumps become more consistent.

 

[verysmuchso]

:Her spirals are nothing special and her seems to be ashamned of her height... she hunches foward a lot on in her skating.

I don't see Yu-na as ever hunching forward. Does everyone here see a hunching problem with Yu-na? I'd appreciate if you could explain to me a bit when or in what position you perceive this problem.

 

[bubbleyum]

I don't see Yu-na as ever hunching forward. Does everyone here see a hunching problem with Yu-na? I'd appreciate if you could explain to me a bit when or in what position you perceive this problem.

don't worry, you are not blind. i don't see it at all either. maybe ppl here are seeing yuna's "soft" skating as hunched over. but i don't think so at all.

i much prefer her soft leans to the music etc to the overly stiff mao (no matter what type of music she is skating to, mao always seems stiff.) now, if this means "balletic poise and good skating posture" give me hunched over yuna anyday. in my opinion, yuna has one of the most beautiful postures while skating of today's ladies.

(although, i don't like her ending pose of miss saigon very much. wish they would change that, david wilson!! )