Most Improved, most impressive?

[Tinymavy15]

Not sure if we had a thread on this yet, but who do we feel has improved the most this year? who are we the most impressed with?

my picks:

Belbin and Agosto- the chopin program is on a whole other level than what they had done previously. beautiful.

Zhang and Zhang- so far very consistant. they will go far this season, and kudoos to them, after a dissipointing worlds

Johnny Wier- need i say more?

Joannie Rocette- Finally! this is the girl I know! 3/3, 2 lutzes, clean LP.... this is what I like to see.

 

[oleada]

In pairs - Mukhortova and Trankov. What a turnaround!

 

[museksk8r]

Most Improved Ladies: Yukari Nakano, Joannie Rochette
Most Impressive Lady: Yu-Na Kim

Most Improved Man: Johnny Weir
Most Impressive Man: Patrick Chan

Most Improved Pairs: Dube/Davison, Vise/Trent
Most Impressive Pair: Savchenko/Szolkowy

Most Improved Dance Team: Virtue/Moir, Belbin/Agosto
Most Impressive Pair: Virtue/Moir, Belbin/Agosto, Pechalat/Bourzat

 

[mylastduchess]

How did Rochette become the most improved... she still doesn't have 3/3 or any major wins or improvements this year?

 

[sillylionlove]

I have to say I am very impressed with Johnny Wier this year. I also am impressed with Caroline Zhang.

 

[chuckm]

How did Rochette become the most improved... she still doesn't have 3/3 or any major wins or improvements this year?

She's skated good FSs before, notably at Worlds 2007. So I don't see the improvement. Neither of her two GP FSs was completely clean---she messed up the last two sequences in both skates, and above all, she still is unable to skate a clean SP.

And the end result was the same as it has been for the past 3 years: no GPF.

My selections (improvement):
Weir, Chan, Nakano, Belbin/Agosto, Mukhortova/Trankov

Impressed by: Weir, Kim, Chan, Wagner

Alarmed by: Suguri, Czisny, Liang, Gregory/Petukhov

 

[museksk8r]

Whoever cannot see the improvements in Joannie's skating this season are just ignorant IMO. Her 3Lutz is remarkably improved, landing it 6 of 6 attempts this season, only a slight two-foot landing in the Skate Canada SP, when last season she had a very common habit of popping it into a double or single Lutz. Her jump consistency is bringing back flashbacks of her 2004-2005 season. One needs only to have seen her warm-ups for Skate Canada to know that she landed the 3flip+3toe 3 times cleanly, so that combo is coming along nicely. If only she can overcome her nerves in the SP to hit it when it counts. Anyway, Joannie bashers, go on and do what you do best - ignore her strengths and only focus on her weaknesses. What skater this season has been absolutely perfect in every competition? Even Nakano has been victim to several downgrades and wrong-edge takeoffs on her triples due to her leg wrap. Rochette has had zero downgrades and wrong-edge takeoffs because she has such strong, solid technique, but you fail to acknowledge that. Not my problem.

 

[chuckm]

Joannie had been landing the 3Z without problems a couple of years back. If she lost it, then got it back, that's maintaining skills, not improving them. Skating clean SPs or adding a clean 3/3 would be an improvement, and we haven't seen that yet from her. Apparently the judges haven't noticed a big improvement, because her PCS scores haven't gotten any higher.

 

[chuckm]

Whoever cannot see the improvements in Joannie's skating this season are just ignorant IMO.

Seeing something that isn't there is intelligent?

It's not uncommon for posters who can't support their statements with facts to attack other posters and call them names.

Lots of skaters do moves in warmups that they are never able to land in competition. Fact: Joannie hasn't even attempted to land the 3/3 that she's been talking about in every interview for the last two seasons.

 

[Tinymavy15]

How did Rochette become the most improved... she still doesn't have 3/3 or any major wins or improvements this year?

actually she landed a 3 toe/half loop/3 salchow at Cup of Russia.

 

[museksk8r]

If she lost it, then got it back, that's maintaining skills, not improving them.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If she had MAINTAINED the 3Lutz over seasons, she never would have lost her technique and ability to land it consistently. The fact that she practically lost that jump last season and now is landing it with the same consistency she had back in the '04-'05 season shows IMPROVEMENT to me.

"maintain" definition:
1. to keep in existence or continuance; preserve; retain
2. to keep in an appropriate condition, operation, or force; keep unimpaired
3. to keep in a specified state, position, etc.
4. to sustain or support

Having inconsistency in a jump is not "maintaining" it.

Please tell me how she was "maintaining" the 3Lutz as you claim when last season she singled it in her LP twice costing her gold at the 4CC, she popped it twice at Canadian Nationals (once in the short and once in the long), and she popped it once at the Worlds in the LP. She also had problems with it in her LP at Trophee Eric Bompard last season. She has clearly IMPROVED that jump this season.

 

[chuckm]

A sequence doesn't have anywhere near the value of a 3/3. A clean 3F+3T has a value of 9.5 points, while a 3T+3S sequence has a value of only 80% of the value of its components. If completely cleanly, the two sequences (3T+3S and 2A+2A) at the end of Joannie's program would be worth a total of 13.64 points, due to the 10% bonus after the 2 minute mark.

Unfortunately, at Skate Canada, Joannie did only 3T+1S and 2A+1A, and at CoR, she got deductions on both sequences so they were worth only 11.36 points. IMO, Joannie would do better if she didn't have these elements so close to the end of the program because she doesn't seem to have enough juice left to do them well enough to get full credit.

 

[fumie_fumie]

Seeing something that isn't there is intelligent?

It's not uncommon for posters who can't support their statements with facts to attack other posters and call them names.

Lots of skaters do moves in warmups that they are never able to land in competition. Fact: Joannie hasn't even attempted to land the 3/3 that she's been talking about in every interview for the last two seasons.

She did 3/3 sequence as mentioned by the previous poster. She is definitely prepping herself for 3/3. It will take her one little step at a time and she will get there.

She hasn't had LP meltdown like last year's TEP. I would say she is having a better season so far. She won Skate Canada last year, because Yu-na made major mistakes in her LP, not because she put together two perfect programs. This year, she has fought two strong fields and managed to get two bronzes.

 

[chuckm]

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If she had MAINTAINED the 3Lutz over seasons, she never would have lost her technique and ability to land it consistently. The fact that she practically lost that jump last season and now is landing it with the same consistency she had back in the '04-'05 season shows IMPROVEMENT to me.

"maintain" definition:
1. to keep in existence or continuance; preserve; retain
2. to keep in an appropriate condition, operation, or force; keep unimpaired
3. to keep in a specified state, position, etc.
4. to sustain or support

Having inconsistency in a jump is not "maintaining" it.

Please tell me how she was "maintaining" the 3Lutz as you claim when last season she singled it in her LP twice costing her gold at the 4CC, she popped it twice at Canadian Nationals (once in the short and once in the long), and she popped it once at the Worlds in the LP. She also had problems with it in her LP at Trophee Eric Bompard last season. She has clearly IMPROVED that jump this season.

Joannie was landing the 3Z and 3Z combo with a fair degree of consistency in the 2004-2005 season, and even better in the 2005-2006 season, where she finished 5th in the Olympics, a high point in her career. It was only last season that she began to have major difficulties with the 3Z, and obviously for some reason or other, she was not maintaining the skills she had shown in the previous two seasons.

You are absolutely right: having inconsistency in a jump IS not maintaining it. Joannie's inconsistent 3Z was a result of her not maintaining her skills.

If she is now starting to get the 3Z back, it's because she absolutely had to do that to remain competitive: a senior skater without a reliable 3Z is going to struggle to make the top 10 at Worlds (and Joannie barely did that last year). So I wouldn't say she was IMPROVING her skating by working on her 3Z, she was returning to a previous level of performance that she had slipped from last season.

She took two steps back and now has taken one step forward. Meanwhile, other skaters are adding 3/3s and improving their spins and footwork, and are passing her.

 

[fenway]

Gotta go with Johnny as well. He seems incredibly focused, committed & disciplined this year. Good for him.

 

[Bennett]

Most impressed: Jonny!!

 

[Tinymavy15]

A sequence doesn't have anywhere near the value of a 3/3. A clean 3F+3T has a value of 9.5 points, while a 3T+3S sequence has a value of only 80% of the value of its components. If completely cleanly, the two sequences (3T+3S and 2A+2A) at the end of Joannie's program would be worth a total of 13.64 points, due to the 10% bonus after the 2 minute mark.

Unfortunately, at Skate Canada, Joannie did only 3T+1S and 2A+1A, and at CoR, she got deductions on both sequences so they were worth only 11.36 points. IMO, Joannie would do better if she didn't have these elements so close to the end of the program because she doesn't seem to have enough juice left to do them well enough to get full credit.

how is a toe/half loop/saclhow not a combo. She does a TRUE half loop, not a few hops and turns like sasha did. She goes from her landing edge directly into a jump, the half loop, and from that edge directly into the salchow. This is a combo and should be judged as such. It is actually harder than a salchow/toeloop combonation, becasue it takes strength and a good soid edge, not to mention speed to pull of the salchow at the end.

As for doing it at the edn, Joannie is trying for the 10% bonus. But i agree that it woulos be better is she did them cleanly in the begining rather than sloppy or not at all at the end.

 

[mizu_iro]

how is a toe/half loop/saclhow not a combo. She does a TRUE half loop, not a few hops and turns like sasha did. She goes from her landing edge directly into a jump, the half loop, and from that edge directly into the salchow. This is a combo and should be judged as such. It is actually harder than a salchow/toeloop combonation, becasue it takes strength and a good soid edge, not to mention speed to pull of the salchow at the end.

While I disagree with the current rules that devalue sequences, that's the situation that we're in right now. I don't necessarily agree that the sequence is harder than the 3S-3T combo, though; if Joannie could pull off the combo at that point in the program and get the full value of the jumps, why wouldn't she?

I personally think that Joannie's finally got two programs that suit her perfectly and she'll be a definite medal threat at Worlds. After the main GPs, she looks stronger than she ever has in international competition. She certainly blew it for herself in the SP at Cup of Russia, but she certainly looks loads better than she did at any point last year.

 

[Skye]

how is a toe/half loop/saclhow not a combo. She does a TRUE half loop, not a few hops and turns like sasha did. She goes from her landing edge directly into a jump, the half loop, and from that edge directly into the salchow. This is a combo and should be judged as such. It is actually harder than a salchow/toeloop combonation, becasue it takes strength and a good soid edge, not to mention speed to pull of the salchow at the end.

If the 3T-half loop-3S is "harder" as you say, why on earth is Joannie putting it in her program instead of the "easier" 3S-3T which would garner higher points? Let's flame the choreographer, the coach or whoever for such stupid decision-making that may have cost her a chance to be in the finals!

As for doing it at the edn, Joannie is trying for the 10% bonus. But i agree that it woulos be better is she did them cleanly in the begining rather than sloppy or not at all at the end.

The consecutive combos (sequences) do not have to be at the end of the program when you're running out of steam, but just past the 2 minute mark in order to receive the 10% bonus. Though I acknowledge the beautiful and carefully constructed choreography, Team Rochette should seriously consider shuffling around the layout for the 4 jumping passes in the second half.

 

[museksk8r]

The consecutive combos (sequences) do not have to be at the end of the program when you're running out of steam, but just past the 2 minute mark in order to receive the 10% bonus. Though I acknowledge the beautiful and carefully constructed choreography, Team Rochette should seriously consider shuffling around the layout for the 4 jumping passes in the second half.

I completely agree! I wish Joannie and Manon would do this layout:

3Lutz+2toe+2loop
3flip
3loop
3Lutz*
3toe+half loop+3Salchow sequence*
2Axel+2Axel sequence*
3Salchow*

* = bonus after 2 minute mark

The Salchow is Joannie's best jump and she has performed it as the last jump in many of her past LPs (last year's Don Juan LP and also her Olympic LP), so I would think/hope she would be comfortable/capable of having the Sal as her last jumping pass.