2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[skatingiscool]

I think the American ladies look fairly strong. They need to have confidence in themseles. Liu is reaally coming on strong. She could sneak out a medal. Bradies injury is key to who goes to the olympics How is Gracie doing? Is she guaranteed a spot a nationals? Is she back in form?

I agree. If Liu control her nerves by landing 3A and fully rotating 3-3 in FREE, she could win bronze at SC. The gap between bronze medal and 4th-6th place is very narrow at SC. Same story for Wakaba. Once again, the bronze medal score at SC is very down to the earth. Besides Liu, a clean Bradie is capable of winning bronze medal at SC.

 

[chuckm]

I am puzzled at the huge support for Amber when she has never been a consistent strong performer. At Skate America, she finished 6th in a field that wasn't all that strong, and at NHK, she faces 4 of the skaters who finished above her at SA, plus Rika Kihira and Alysa Liu (whom she has never beaten at Nationals). Scoring slightly over 200 isn't going to do much for her against opponents who consistently score 220+.

Wishing doesn't make it so. Amber is an inconsistent performer who lacks the body of work to make her case with the US Olympic committee. If Bradie is too injured to skate strongly at Nationals, Lindsay appears ready to take her place, as she has demonstrated strong performances at US Nationals 2021 and two JGP events, and she has made the JGPF.

Nationals is probably Amber's last chance to show what she can do, but it's going to be a lot tougher than it was last year, even if Bradie is absent or still injured. Lindsay is a much stronger skater than she was last year, and Isabeau Levito is skating at Senior Nationals this year. Although Isabeau is too young for senior ISU competition, she is a formidable opponent who has scored well over 200 at her two JGP events (with fewer elements than in senior programs) and also made the JGPF.

Also, we have yet to see Amber's 3a in international competition. Will she try it at Nationals? Lindsay has attempted 3a in one of her international events, and Isabeau has attempted 4t in domestic competition.

 

[noskates]

Honestly, I don't think the American ladies look strong at all - based on what we saw at Skate America and Skate Canada. Alysa is still very young and hopefully gets her nerves under control. Right now, given Bradie's situation, I think Alysa is our only hope. Karen has a good skate every now and then but doesn't have the fire power to contend internationally. I think the very best we've seen from her was the year she won Nationals. Amber Glenn had great promise as a junior and has really only had one good skate since - and that was at Nationals last year. Even with her 3A she's still not in contention, IMO, internationally. Any of the younger ladies coming up lack exposure and experience. Again, just my opinion.

 

[bubblecherry]

people are supporting amber because she’s found some momentum and seems to be moving up in the ranks... if she can keep improving, of course she will have a chance at US nationals to make her case for the Olympic team.

however, lots of people are ignoring she’s an inconsistent skater who had her first ever successful international outing last week. she’s a good skater that can rotate the jumps when she’s on, but still, she did a FS with “only” 6 triples and missed her levels on basically everything. (even karen has updated her layout to 7 triples, though she was quite consistent with her 6 triple layout last season, and she might should go back) there are still almost 3 months until nationals. amber needs to keep working hard and improving, because i don’t think her SkAM performances would get her on the olympic team. alysa is consistent and i see her as a lock for the olympic team. karen, mariah, and/or bradie can make the team with a strong Nationals performance. i expect at least one of them to be in form and ready to throw down at nationals. Lindsay is a wildcard but she’s consistent with higher BV than the older girls, and Isabeau will be there to possibly throw an Olympic contender off the podium, which will make everything even more chaotic.

so, yes, amber has her chances. her chances have never looked better, but there’s still a lot of work to do if she wants to be chosen over ladies with higher BV and more international experience/success. she’s off to a great start, though.

 

[macy]

people are supporting amber because she’s found some momentum and seems to be moving up in the ranks... if she can keep improving, of course she will have a chance at US nationals to make her case for the Olympic team.

however, lots of people are ignoring she’s an inconsistent skater who had her first ever successful international outing last week. she’s a good skater that can rotate the jumps when she’s on, but still, she did a FS with “only” 6 triples and missed her levels on basically everything. (even karen has updated her layout to 7 triples, though she was quite consistent with her 6 triple layout last season, and she might should go back) there are still almost 3 months until nationals. amber needs to keep working hard and improving, because i don’t think her SkAM performances would get her on the olympic team. alysa is consistent and i see her as a lock for the olympic team. karen, mariah, and/or bradie can make the team with a strong Nationals performance. i expect at least one of them to be in form and ready to throw down at nationals. Lindsay is a wildcard but she’s consistent with higher BV than the older girls, and Isabeau will be there to possibly throw an Olympic contender off the podium, which will make everything even more chaotic.

so, yes, amber has her chances. her chances have never looked better, but there’s still a lot of work to do if she wants to be chosen over ladies with higher BV and more international experience/success. she’s off to a great start, though.

agree with all of this.

it can't be ignored this really was her first successful international outing as a senior...6 years later. but it also can't be ignored that she did skate really well and was the highest placing American woman there.

if she keeps the upward trajectory going, even without the 3As, she is going to create a body of work for herself by the time nationals rolls around. she has so much unrealized potential she hasn't tapped into all this time and i just want her to tap into it before she retires, regardless of whether or not she makes the team.

 

[Moxiejan]

I am puzzled at the huge support for Amber when she has never been a consistent strong performer. At Skate America, she finished 6th in a field that wasn't all that strong, and at NHK, she faces 4 of the skaters who finished above her at SA, plus Rika Kihira and Alysa Liu (whom she has never beaten at Nationals). Scoring slightly over 200 isn't going to do much for her against opponents who consistently score 220+.

Wishing doesn't make it so. Amber is an inconsistent performer who lacks the body of work to make her case with the US Olympic committee. If Bradie is too injured to skate strongly at Nationals, Lindsay appears ready to take her place, as she has demonstrated strong performances at US Nationals 2021 and two JGP events, and she has made the JGPF.

Nationals is probably Amber's last chance to show what she can do, but it's going to be a lot tougher than it was last year, even if Bradie is absent or still injured. Lindsay is a much stronger skater than she was last year, and Isabeau Levito is skating at Senior Nationals this year. Although Isabeau is too young for senior ISU competition, she is a formidable opponent who has scored well over 200 at her two JGP events (with fewer elements than in senior programs) and also made the JGPF.

Also, we have yet to see Amber's 3a in international competition. Will she try it at Nationals? Lindsay has attempted 3a in one of her international events, and Isabeau has attempted 4t in domestic competition.

To get one of the 3 Olympic/Worlds spots, the issue isn’t how Amber rates against international skaters. It’s how she rates against the other Americans who are eligible (thus making Isabeau irrelevant this year).

Realistically, there are 6 battling for the 3 spots, with Alysa a notch above the rest. We haven’t seen Bradie; a complete question mark. That leaves one & (sadly) likely 2 spots available.

We have seen the 4 contenders — Amber, Karen, Mariah & Lindsay. Of those, Amber & Lindsay have been strongest this fall (though Amber beat Lindsay easily at 2021 Nationals), with Karen imploding at SC & Mariah scrambling with 2 replacement programs.

Currently, I’d have the team as Alysa, Amber/Lindsay. But a LOT will depend on the remaining GPs & any Senior Bs that they do (and it will be important to see how Lindsay scores at senior level). And of course Nationals 2022 as the final piece of info.

Factors in Amber’s favor are that, unlike Karen, she rarely gets UR calls from international judges and that, unlike Mariah, she can consistently deliver a clean 3/3.

 

[bubblecherry]

Factors in Amber’s favor are that, unlike Karen, she rarely gets UR calls from international judges and that, unlike Mariah, she can consistently deliver a clean 3/3.

Hopefully Amber keeps moving in the right direction, but you can’t say either one of these things based off one competition. Amber, not at her best, does get URs, and even worse, downgrades, and most unfortunately, she often pops her jumps.

She’s had WAY more issues consistently rotating 5-7 triple programs internationally(and domestically), than Mariah or Karen ever had. Things are looking good for Amber, but she needs to keep proving she way passed the low lows she has often had, because she doesn’t have a record that stacks up against the highest highs of Mariah/Karen/Bradie and all of them will show up to nationals equally as hungry for an Olympic spot.

 

[mrrice]

Honestly, I don't think the American ladies look strong at all - based on what we saw at Skate America and Skate Canada. Alysa is still very young and hopefully gets her nerves under control. Right now, given Bradie's situation, I think Alysa is our only hope. Karen has a good skate every now and then but doesn't have the fire power to contend internationally. I think the very best we've seen from her was the year she won Nationals. Amber Glenn had great promise as a junior and has really only had one good skate since - and that was at Nationals last year. Even with her 3A she's still not in contention, IMO, internationally. Any of the younger ladies coming up lack exposure and experience. Again, just my opinion.

Sadly, I have to agree with this. Other than Alysa, who I still see as our only hope ( If she hits all of her jumps including the 3A ) A Clean Lindsay is also a viable threat. If Bradie isn't healthy. I don't see any other US Lady making the final flight at the games.

 

[Parksideprince]

After watching Skate Canada, I think out best bets are Liu, Tennell and Glenn. Here's the problem. The skating world has moved on so far technically that I don't think we will medal at the Olympics or Worlds. The Russians are doing Quad toe Triple toe combinations and Triple Axels with arms over their heads. This Russian lady whom I had never heard of before just beat her teammate TukTamusheva by thirty or so points. And then there's the issue of American nerves. Which to me dates back to late Michelle Kwan performances. Sasha Cohen, Kimmie Meissner, Ashley Wagner, and Alyssa Cziny were all exquisite skaters until it mattered. I don't know why it is so difficult for our skaters to do what they do in practice. I've bought this up before and I've been given warnings on this board, yelled at and insulted. The thing is American ladies have trouble putting together performances under pressure and when they do, it's a fluke that they can't repeat. I don't know if the rest of the world has stricter training, with limits on outside distraction or freedoms. But here's what I do know, true to form Karen Chen fell twice in the free skate. Alyssa Liu fell on her triple axel and ended up 49 points behind the Russian. Every time an American lady takes the ice, I have to pop a Xanax because I can't stop shaking and my teeth are shattering.

 

[Moxiejan]

After watching Skate Canada, I think out best bets are Liu, Tennell and Glenn. Here's the problem. The skating world has moved on so far technically that I don't think we will medal at the Olympics or Worlds. The Russians are doing Quad toe Triple toe combinations and Triple Axels with arms over their heads. This Russian lady whom I had never heard of before just beat her teammate TukTamusheva by thirty or so points. And then there's the issue of American nerves. Which to me dates back to late Michelle Kwan performances. Sasha Cohen, Kimmie Meissner, Ashley Wagner, and Alyssa Cziny were all exquisite skaters until it mattered. I don't know why it is so difficult for our skaters to do what they do in practice. I've bought this up before and I've been given warnings on this board, yelled at and insulted. The thing is American ladies have trouble putting together performances under pressure and when they do, it's a fluke that they can't repeat. I don't know if the rest of the world has stricter training, with limits on outside distraction or freedoms. But here's what I do know, true to form Karen Chen fell twice in the free skate. Alyssa Liu fell on her triple axel and ended up 49 points behind the Russian. Every time an American lady takes the ice, I have to pop a Xanax because I can't stop shaking and my teeth are shattering.

Don’t be dissing Wagner this way! She made the GPF 4 times (winning medals in 3) & was Top 5 at Worlds several times (winning silver at one).

 

[macy]

After watching Skate Canada, I think out best bets are Liu, Tennell and Glenn. Here's the problem. The skating world has moved on so far technically that I don't think we will medal at the Olympics or Worlds. The Russians are doing Quad toe Triple toe combinations and Triple Axels with arms over their heads. This Russian lady whom I had never heard of before just beat her teammate TukTamusheva by thirty or so points. And then there's the issue of American nerves. Which to me dates back to late Michelle Kwan performances. Sasha Cohen, Kimmie Meissner, Ashley Wagner, and Alyssa Cziny were all exquisite skaters until it mattered. I don't know why it is so difficult for our skaters to do what they do in practice. I've bought this up before and I've been given warnings on this board, yelled at and insulted. The thing is American ladies have trouble putting together performances under pressure and when they do, it's a fluke that they can't repeat. I don't know if the rest of the world has stricter training, with limits on outside distraction or freedoms. But here's what I do know, true to form Karen Chen fell twice in the free skate. Alyssa Liu fell on her triple axel and ended up 49 points behind the Russian. Every time an American lady takes the ice, I have to pop a Xanax because I can't stop shaking and my teeth are shattering.

i would hardly call Michelle a nervy competitor. sure she had some bad performances, but who doesn't? skaters are human. she was a 9 time US champion and 5 time world champion. no way that is a nervous competitor.

Ashley has been open about dealing with competition nerves, but most of the time she held it together. i wouldn't stick her in this category either- she made the GPF and worlds several times and medaled and was a 3x US champion. she carried US ladies skating for about ten years.

 

[Parksideprince]

Don’t be dissing Wagner this way! She made the GPF 4 times (winning medals in 3) & was Top 5 at Worlds several times (winning silver at one).

i would hardly call Michelle a nervy competitor. sure she had some bad performances, but who doesn't? skaters are human. she was a 9 time US champion and 5 time world champion. no way that is a nervous competitor.

Ashley has been open about dealing with competition nerves, but most of the time she held it together. i wouldn't stick her in this category either- she made the GPF and worlds several times and medaled and was a 3x US champion. she carried US ladies skating for about ten years.

Where are the golds? Lipinski, Hughes, Kwan and Meissner (fluke) all have gold medals at Worlds and/or Olympics between 1998-2006. It has been 15 years. Can we get one gold medal? One? One? And I love US ladies. Sasha Cohen is my favorite skater of all time. But I'm frustrated that Russia-Japan is killing it. And for so long.

 

[mrrice]

Looking forward, Amber and Alysa will be at the NHK Trophy. If Amber wants to make her case for a spot on the Olympic Team, this is her final chance. There is still a Gaping Hole in the roster for the 3rd spot and this is a great opportunity for her.

 

[Lzbee]

Alyssa Liu fell on her triple axel and ended up 49 points behind the Russian. Every time an American lady takes the ice, I have to pop a Xanax because I can't stop shaking and my teeth are shattering.

That's a bit unfair. There's been less than 20 women in the history of figure skating who have landed a triple Axel, only 4 of them are American with Alysa being one of them.

Kamila Valieva is a phenom. Even if the American women were skating at their absolute best, they would not be touching her score. In fact, the previous world record was shattered by almost 20 points.

 

[mayiko]

Where are the golds? Lipinski, Hughes, Kwan and Meissner (fluke) all have gold medals at Worlds and/or Olympics between 1998-2006. It has been 15 years. Can we get one gold medal? One? One? And I love US ladies. Sasha Cohen is my favorite skater of all time. But I'm frustrated that Russia-Japan is killing it. And for so long.

There's also a whole generation of American women skaters that injured due to hip problems. We're also losing athletes to other sports. Figure skating is expensive and girls have choices of other sports to compete in. Remember Nancy Kerrigan wanted to play hockey but there wasn't any hockey teams for girls. That's not a problem now.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Where are the golds? Lipinski, Hughes, Kwan and Meissner (fluke) all have gold medals at Worlds and/or Olympics between 1998-2006. It has been 15 years. Can we get one gold medal? One? One? And I love US ladies. Sasha Cohen is my favorite skater of all time. But I'm frustrated that Russia-Japan is killing it. And for so long.

I don't think Japan is killing it. They did well at Worlds 2018 but that's about it. They have Rika who has put them in the mix for last few years but she's injured now. I'd say on the whole they are pretty flakey.

The Russian ladies are killing it though, no denying that.

I think if you don't count the Russian ladies who are on some kind of planet of their own, the US ladies, and especially the younger US talent are decent.

Bradie before she was injured made it into the last GPF, had very convincing skates and medalled at 4CC.

I do think that the chances of anyone non Russian getting a medal in the next few years is unlikely. I watch Juniors and the next group of young Russians are scary as heck!!! I don't think the US is doing any worse than other countries in ladies.

 

[Hyena]

We have seen the 4 contenders — Amber, Karen, Mariah & Lindsay. Of those, Amber & Lindsay have been strongest this fall (though Amber beat Lindsay easily at 2021 Nationals), with Karen imploding at SC & Mariah scrambling with 2 replacement programs.

I want to challenge this a little. Based on the scores themselves, Amber and Karen are pretty even this season. Both have had two internationals and one GP so far (Amber withdrew after the SP at Cranberry Cup, which it's worth noting was just a Senior B, not a Challenger).

Amber:
Cranberry Cup International: 59.59 SP (withdrew before the FS)
Finlandia: 183.46
Skate America: 201.02

Karen:
Autumn Classic International: 173
Finlandia 202.49
Skate Canada: 183.41

Both have had one rough event (we don't know how Cranberry Cup would have turned out if Amber hadn't injured herself slightly, but her SP score wasn't great), one score around 201-202 range, and one score around 183. I think we just have a bit of recency bias, where Amber's strong event was her most recent one. You could make the argument Amber did better at the tougher event - the GP - but Finlandia was a pretty stacked field too. Both have a very real shot at the Olympics this year but I'm not ready to predict either for the team yet.

 

[MCsAngel2]

I think the American ladies look fairly strong. They need to have confidence in themseles. Liu is reaally coming on strong. She could sneak out a medal. Bradies injury is key to who goes to the olympics How is Gracie doing? Is she guaranteed a spot a nationals? Is she back in form?

Scroll up to read message #2974. Gracie isn't doing well.

 

[skatingiscool]

Where are the golds? Lipinski, Hughes, Kwan and Meissner (fluke) all have gold medals at Worlds and/or Olympics between 1998-2006. It has been 15 years. Can we get one gold medal? One? One? And I love US ladies. Sasha Cohen is my favorite skater of all time. But I'm frustrated that Russia-Japan is killing it. And for so long.

Same question for Russian Men. When did Russian MEN win Olympics/World gold last time? I think there is something to do with the body type and weight.

Asian men are much skinnier and hence they can rotate faster in the air. Hanyu's weight is about 116 pounds. How many Russian men are in that size range? Hanyu is the only one can land 4A IMO. Russian girls are skinnier/thinner than American girls in general. Their petite body type is easier for them to learn and master quad compared to American women.

 

[Sjs5572]

Kaitlyn Weaver retweeted this article two days ago. If this is what's required to be a women's (girlOGM

Same question for Russian Men. When did Russian MEN win Olympics/World gold last time? I think there is something to do with the body type and weight.

Asian men are much skinnier and hence they can rotate faster in the air. Hanyu's weight is about 116 pounds. How many Russian men are in that size range? Hanyu is the only one can land 4A IMO. Russian girls are skinnier/thinner than American girls in general. Their petite body type is easier for them to learn and master quad compared to American women.