Raise The Senior Ladies Age To 17 Please!

[Parksideprince]

I am thrilled you all didn't beat me up for the post! But a lot of you missed that I want skaters to be done with their 'growth spurt.' And not take Olympic and world medals from seasoned skaters. And I missed Johnny Weir saying that mess about every lady needing a triple axel. I watch on Peacock which has no commentary. But oh Johnny how soon we forget that when Lysachek was mopping the floor with you because he was doing quads you said and I quote 'my sport is not about a single jump.' I can't believe everyone considers a 15 year old a Senior Lady. I'm 41 can I now be a senior citizen? I need discounts too.

 

[yume]

I am thrilled you all didn't beat me up for the post! But a lot of you missed that I want skaters to be done with their 'growth spurt.' And not take Olympic and world medals from seasoned skaters.

I thought that 15 was decided because it's assumed that by this age, most women hit growth spurt?
I wonder what explanation ISU came with when 15yo was decided as the age limit.

 

[Alegria]

I can't remember any top men/pairs/dance skaters, who retired after few seasons in adults just because they won everything and lost interest.
But when when it comes to girls... So maybe they are not really interested in figure skating and only wanted medals? If so, why not try to get medals at 17 or older?

 

[McBibus]

I am thrilled you all didn't beat me up for the post! But a lot of you missed that I want skaters to be done with their 'growth spurt.' And not take Olympic and world medals from seasoned skaters. And I missed Johnny Weir saying that mess about every lady needing a triple axel. I watch on Peacock which has no commentary. But oh Johnny how soon we forget that when Lysachek was mopping the floor with you because he was doing quads you said and I quote 'my sport is not about a single jump.' I can't believe everyone considers a 15 year old a Senior Lady. I'm 41 can I now be a senior citizen? I need discounts too.

you (like me) are a skating granpa by current peak age
the miracle kids are not the disease: they are a symptom both of a positive and a negavite condition.

Positive: woman skating is in a strong evolutive moment and so it is understandable that every new batch could be stronger that the last one, exception (champions) allowed of course.

Negative: the sport is becoming monodimensional because these is only one way to win, and that means that since very young age the training will focus more on the winning skills.
looking at the man competion could help: there are some very good stable skater; for the others is just blindly shooting quads hoping on a good day. It's painful to see.

I'm not saying the Loena or Mariah should beat Maya because they have a program that is more beautiful to see as a pure recital performance, but that their strong skills should be able to fight Maya's quads (her strong point) from another direction.
If not, and the "jumper" will alway win, let's end with the pretence of "ice princesses", "fancy dresses", "art and musicality" and just make it an xsport with jumps judged like platform diving, or like gymnstastics.

My vision (not necessarily right) is that this sport should be both about strenght and beauty, searching and aiming for that impossible balance between athletic performance and artistic perfomance, because that balance is what made figure skating unique and the reason I love it so much.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Sorry, but I'm totally against raising the age limit any further. Whenever I think about it, it still bugs me that Mao Asada wasn't allowed to go for Olympic gold or an Olympic medal of any kind in 2006 - especially when iirc, she had beaten virtually every one leading up to those Games. This bumping up of the age limit has gone on before, in other sports as well. I just don't believe in penalizing the gifted or the very talented. I'm glad Tara won in 1998. And she was not a 'small child', she was a teenager. A 15 year old. She was not physically mature yet but then neither was I at the same age. It's mostly genetics, combined with hard training before you hit your growth spurt. I don't believe in some artificial age limit just to give older skaters a better shot at a podium. I'll always insist that Mao Asada should've had a shot at a 2006 Olympic gold medal. She had a strong chance of winning. And no one is going to make me think any different.

 

[noskates]

I'm on the fence about the age limit - but not because a bunch of Russian jumping beans are winning everything but more about what happens to them physically by jumping hours every day to achieve success. If they haven't completed growing and if their bones aren't finished developing, do we have a bunch of girls with leg, ankle and feet problems starting the year after they win everything? I don't mean to sound sarcastic but the truth of the matter is, a 15 year old is still growing. Alysa Liu is a perfect example. How many inches did she grow between a few years ago and this year? Four inches? Don't you think her bones were still developing at the same time as she got taller? Are medals more important than the state of your health the rest of your life? I think there needs to be some sort of consideration for the well-being of skaters and if raising the age limit addresses that, so be it.

 

[lariko]

But men grow more during 15 to 19 year period and suffer just as much if not more. There is a growing list of junior men who are doing complex content early, with a string of injuries, sometimes career ending. I am yet to see the thread advocating for Grassl’s health who skated for both juniors and seniors since age 15 or Malinin doing ahem… tricks and depriving those seasoned 18 and 20 yo’s from medals. Or worries that Kagiyama didn’t look like a man in his prime when he started seniors. How Gummenik grew a foot a year and how hard he falls?

Nobody seem to care about the low degree of success of junior men coming into seniors, where very, very few are successful for years on end at the expense of so many. They come with their junior ranking, then get locked out of senior competitions because senior guys have higher chance of prestige scoring and that’s that.

Why is the concern always for women, when their discipline is flourishing and developing and moving with a healthy competition and a chance to compete while men’s is pretty much locked out? Maybe we should start tweaking the age limit on men’s. How about caping it at, I dunno, 22? Otherwise it’s just so unfair and so damaging to health of the 18 yos during the all important formative years?

 

[Alegria]

Sorry, but I'm totally against raising the age limit any further. Whenever I think about it, it still bugs me that Mao Asada wasn't allowed to go for Olympic gold or an Olympic medal of any kind in 2006 - especially when iirc, she had beaten virtually every one leading up to those Games.

It sounds like Mao Asada was the only one who was banned to participate in games. Even more, I could say that she was lucky to get that senior season.

 

[yume]

It sounds like Mao Asada was the only one who was banned to participate in games. Even more, I could say that she was lucky to get that senior season.

She wasn't the only one but she was the one in the spotlight. Some could say that Kim would have won, since she had beaten Mao at junior worlds (Mao bombed but let's act as if she was perfectly clean.)

 

[Raskolnikov]

I'm on the fence about the age limit - but not because a bunch of Russian jumping beans are winning everything but more about what happens to them physically by jumping hours every day to achieve success. If they haven't completed growing and if their bones aren't finished developing, do we have a bunch of girls with leg, ankle and feet problems starting the year after they win everything? I don't mean to sound sarcastic but the truth of the matter is, a 15 year old is still growing. Alysa Liu is a perfect example. How many inches did she grow between a few years ago and this year? Four inches? Don't you think her bones were still developing at the same time as she got taller? Are medals more important than the state of your health the rest of your life? I think there needs to be some sort of consideration for the well-being of skaters and if raising the age limit addresses that, so be it.

Do you seriously believe they gonna stop jumping everyday if you raise the age limit? They will train and compete regardless. They do this since 3-4y old. Ain't nobody gonna stop.
The same goes for "ban quads in juniors". It won't stop skaters from training them. They just won't get any credit for that. All it could do is artificially holding back superior athletes.

 

[Fluture]

First and foremost FS needs to do more to address the rampant abuse and exploitation of children in the sport. I cannot enjoy watching these kids skate while wondering how depressed and unhealthy they are behind the scenes. This is not just about Russia or just about ladies, I really struggle to watch the pairs too. Young athletes, especially females, are treated like crap in our sport, and coaches have free rein to starve them, humiliate them and worse to get the results they want. Raising the age limit would not be a solution to the problem by any means, but in the interim I completely support it.

This. There are so many problems in this sport currently and, forgive me for the bad analogy, raising the age limit would be like putting a band-aid on a stab wound. Better than nothing but it sure as hell won‘t fix the real issue either. Do we really think that the abuse, the toxic coaching methods, the hyperfixation on weight, the way these kids are seen as expendable etc. would stop just because the athletes involved now are seventeen instead of fifteen years old? I seriously doubt it. The system needs to be changed from the inside. And the sad thing is, I‘m not even sure how you'd go about this. This kind of treatment has become completely normalized, it’s seen as necessary to "become a champion" and the kids will just have to suck it up because "that‘s what it takes to be great and it‘s not really all that bad". And no, this is not exclusively about Russia — it would be good if it was as isolated a problem. But it isn‘t.

 

[ManyCairns]

Maybe there should be a sport called skate jumping. But for me, skating has come down to enjoying the skaters I like for their artistry and technical ability, and even the people they are...not just watching trick shooting. I never enjoyed watching Tara L. She was a small child who skated like a small child. And a trick shooter. I think Dick Button was right. A fall is a fall, not a partially competed jump. Zero points minus one.
There should be a bump for a clean program. I am not a basket ball fan but it would appear to me that sport now only is for tall people with long arms. Do we want women's figure skating to be only for small 15 year old girls with slight builds? Today, Johnny Weir told US Ladies figure skaters to up their game and everyone do 3As and quads just like the Russians. Tara didn't say anything, but she did remark that Mariah had to work on the Triple triple. Fair enough. I would rather watch artistry than injury.

Wow, I didn't get any big level of emotional exhortation out of Johnny's comments -- just explaining the technical advantage the Russian women have and what would need to be done to be comparable to them.

 

[lariko]

Sure, bump clean programs. I would have loved to see Sinitsina and Ignatov rewarded more for their falls-free skates. People often try to fudge the rules thinking they will benefit someone in particular based on one competition. But changes always have long lasting effect. It would wipe out Brown from the map, because he never skates clean.

For example, atm, both sides of TES vs PCSs are slightly frustrated, feeling that the other side has too much influence. That’s the indication that it is pretty much balanced.

Same with age. Not every 15 yo beats every 25 yo, and far it is from every 15 yo to do the quads, arms aloft or not.

 

[Alegria]

She wasn't the only one but she was the one in the spotlight. Some could say that Kim would have won, since she had beaten Mao at junior worlds (Mao bombed but let's act as if she was perfectly clean.)

So what? If it was today they both would compete at juniors GP and no chance to be in the spotlight.
I just can't understand why this example is still exists.

 

[Tutto]

I am in favour of raising the age limit, should it be 16 or 17 I am not sure.
Why? This year I renewed my childhood interest in Artistic gymnastic (just a few decades later haha) and I since cannot help comparing one sport to another. I am mostly pleasantly surprised by the fact that being a 20 -24+ year old girl in AG doesn't mean being old. These girls are in their prime, they are winning medals, they are being judged fair, they do all the tricks the younger girls do and they get a reward from the judges by way of good execution scores (equivalent of our PCS) for their maturity & experience they bring to the table. All as it should be in FS! The age limit in AG is 16.
The All-round podium in Tokyo was made of Sunisa Lee, age 18, Rebeca Andrade, 22 and Angelina Melnikova, 21. Silver medallist in the Floor Final was 32 year old Vanessa Ferrari.
The two sports are very similar to each other.
What is wrong with figure skating because clearly something is, if Liza T is an exception rather than a rule, and her 'grand old age' is being brought up in every discussion
I am personally tired of watching the endless stream of 15 year old girls from Eteri's conveyer belt. I prefer to cheer for someone who will stay in the sport for a few more years. watch them grow artistically, follow their journey and not expect them to disappear after 2 seasons because they burnt out by the excessive training & injuries and by being pushed out by the next line-up of 15 year olds.

 

[lariko]

I am in favour of raising the age limit, should it be 16 or 17 I am not sure.
Why? This year I renewed my childhood interest in Artistic gymnastic (just a few decades later haha) and I since cannot help comparing one sport to another. I am mostly pleasantly surprised by the fact that being a 20 -24+ year old girl in AG doesn't mean being old. These girls are in their prime, they are winning medals, they are being judged fair, they do all the tricks the younger girls do and they get a reward from the judges by way of good execution scores (equivalent of our PCS) for their maturity & experience they bring to the table. All as it should be in FS! The age limit in AG is 16.
The All-round podium in Tokyo was made of Sunisa Lee, age 18, Rebeca Andrade, 22 and Angelina Melnikova, 21. Silver medallist in the Floor Final was 32 year old, Vanessa Ferrari.
The two sports are very similar to each other.
What is wrong with figure skating because clearly something is, if Liza T is exception rather than a rule.
I am tired of watching the endless stream of 15 year old girls from Eteri's conveyer belt. I prefer to cheer for someone who will stay in the sport for a few more years. watch them grow artistically, follow their journey and not disappearing after 2 seasons because they burnt out by excessive training & injuries, and by being pushed out by the next line-up of 15 year olds.

So you would rather close your eyes to more and more skaters who would never get a chance to compete, because they left due to excessive injuries and overtraining before their turn even came? You’d rather watch Tuktamysheva take gold from 2014 to 2022 and had never seen Zagitova, Kihira, Medvedeva, Trusova, Scherbakova and Kostornaya get a chance to shine and Tuktamysheva still has a chance? You want it to be like in men, when Chen will always win, and if it’s not Chen, it’s Hanyu for years and years on end and everyone else is vying for bronze? Or worse, like in Ice Dance, where they are stuck in their positions till someone retires?

 

[Tutto]

So you would rather close your eyes to more and more skaters who would never get a chance to compete? You’d rather watch Tuktamysheva take gold from 2014 to 2022 and had never seen Zagitova, Kihira, Medvedeva, Trusova, Scherbakova and Kostornaya get a chance to shine? You want it to be like in men, when Chen will always win, and if it’s not Chen, it’s Hanyu for years and years on end? Or worse, like in Ice Dance, where they are stuck in their positions till someone retires?

Now I think you are being over dramatic, why named by you skaters would never get a chance to compete? I never said that. It is about giving a fair chance to everyone. What Eteri's girls get in PCS is ridiculous.
And if they planned their career for 6 -7 senior seasons their training regime would not be so severe and guess what they might not be so advanced technically.

 

[Alegria]

So you would rather close your eyes to more and more skaters who would never get a chance to compete, because they left due to excessive injuries and overtraining before their turn even came?

Ant what about those who never shone in juniors? For example, Osmond? If she trained in Russia we would never be able to see her too.
Honestly, I prefer Kaetlyn Osmond over Zagitova.

 

[lariko]

Now I think you are being over dramatic, why named by you skaters would never get a chance to compete? I never said that. It is about giving a fair chance to everyone. What Eteri's girls get in PCS is ridiculous.
And if they planned their career for 6 -7 senior seasons their training regime would not be so severe and guess what they might not be so advanced technically.

They have the same age restrictions as men’s skating, yet there is no objections to men competing in seniors at 15.

What if they don’t want 7 seasons after training from age 4 to age 17 to compete in seniors. That’s 13 years of gruelling training and from 18 or so onward for women this training will be more and more uphill struggle because of the patterns of weight gain and childbearing concerns. It will create an artificial sitting out period from about 17 to 20 when women struggle with hormonal issues in general. Do they need to foreswear personal lives for this long too? Risk their ability to bear children at all, because they would stay at a Body Fat percentage below nominal for this long?

You can’t give fair chance to everyone if turnaround at the top is slow, no matter what age the peak occurs.

 

[Alegria]

They have the same age restrictions as men’s skating, yet there is no objections to men competing in seniors at 15.

What if they don’t want 7 seasons after training from age 4 to age 17 to compete in seniors. That’s 13 years of gruelling training and from 18 or so onward for women this training will be more and more uphill struggle because of the patterns of weight gain and childbearing concerns. It will create an artificial sitting out period from about 17 to 20 when women struggle with hormonal issues in general. Do they need to foreswear personal lives for this long too? Risk their ability to bear children at all, because they would stay at a Body Fat percentage below nominal for this long?

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