For international competitions there is usually judges meeting after the event. Not sure for local events but I'm guessing yes although more informal.
2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating
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After the competition judges have a meeting where they discuss their scoring. Not every judge have to explain every number from the score sheet, but in some situations that is necessary. For example, when some GOE score is two points different from the average or when some component score is out of the corridor. The job of the referee of the competition is to find those GOE scores and call for an explanation at the meeting. The referee also gives a range of scores for the components for every skater (for example SS for skater A should be in range from 6.00 to 7.25, TR from 5.5 to 7 etc etc) and judges who are outside of that range are explaining their scores. Also, some new variation of the elements, some tech calls, some unusual situations from the competition which referee noted are discussed.
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Not in that 2019-2020 season you were talking about. It looks to me that the judges at RusNats did everything they could to crown Aliona as the Champion. Those shaky landings at her 2A and her 3F+3T got ignored while Anna got negative GOE on her 4F. And they even increased the margin in PCS in Aliona's favour compared to GPF (RN +5.59 and GPF +5.56). That PCS margin decreased by quite a lot later at Europeans by the international judges to just +2.24 in Aliona's favour.
The margins in FS is sometimes very small. And sure, Anna was a bit lucky both at 2019 and 2020 Nationals when she had the margins on her side. But there is also an argument to be made that Anna was the unlucky one at Europeans when that margin wasn't on her side. She would have won if not her 4Lz was downgraded or her +3Lo was deemed UR.
We also mustn't forget that ! calls on edges are very different from season to season so it's not comparable. It is much more common now, but back in 2019-2020 they were more lenient to Lutz edges and Flip edges were almost never called.
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Because that is not a GOE bullet. Edges are. Trust me how I WISH they were
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I've commented it yesterday in the competition thread, that it is obvious there is too cold in the arena.after the IdF fiasco with the puddles on the rink, the Slovak organizers decided to go to another, opposite, extreme, and switched on the "Oymyakon" mode at the rink:
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A great article about Davydov's group!
Anna Frolova missed the season due to a stress fracture. She is still recovering and can't jump some triples.
Samodelkina changed her boots a few weeks ago but she has consistent 4S and does 4Lo too.
matchtv.ru
Anna Frolova missed the season due to a stress fracture. She is still recovering and can't jump some triples.
Samodelkina changed her boots a few weeks ago but she has consistent 4S and does 4Lo too.
14-летняя фигуристка может бросить вызов звездам Тутберидзе. Как она готовится к чемпионату России?
Репортаж с катка, где занимается группа Давыдова.
matchtv.ru
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They are goe deductions tho and I'm taking them when I see them.
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With Alina and Zhenya it was the opposite where Zhenya was clearly held up by the judges to try to make it close, and still it was not enough. Alina’s jumps in 2017-2018 were much more effortless and her base value significantly higher and her spins better and her short program at least was just as good. The only thing Zhenya had better was a more artistically challengingly and emotionally authentic free skate, that was it. Alina and Osmond were the ones who should have been close and Zhenya should have been well back in 3rd.
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Prerotation is not a GOE deduction unless it is visible in real time aka a toe axel. That has been litigated and established many many times by now. ISU had a proposal recently to make a deduction for the type of perotation you talk about aka “blade assist” or whatever you want to call it but it was voted down.
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There should be no outcry about Sasha’s flip being called in 20-21 because she obviously developed a lip with Plushenko. However with Eteri she was always praised for having both edges correct especially as at the time Medvedeva and Kostornaia and Panenkova had clear flutzes, Anna had an unclear flutz, Zagitova had barely an outside edge. So the only ones with both edges perfect were Sasha and Tarakanova.Putting a call on every single one of Anna's Lutzes is insane. That has nothing to do with reality. I doubt Aliona's fans would accept the same (esp. stripping her of the most of the important titles), but they don't have to, nobody spends hours and days by rewatching her programs and "correcting" the protocols.
As for Sasha, you probably forgot the outcry about Sasha's Flip being called at the cup stages a year ago.
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The motivation is by continuing to highlight the ridiculous application of edge calls ISU will eventually get rid of them because they are just yet another way to add corruption. As we have seen many fan movements have eventually manifested in support from the relevant people in the sport ex. Separate PCS panels and backloading Zagitova Rule and now many commentators talking about pre-rotation.It wasn't for the first time and I don't want to ignite a team war again to analyze what was behind the outrage.
Aliona received "whole" three Lutz calls during her two junior seasons and I think one Lutz and one Flip call during the first senior season. It's in no way comparable with your offer for Anna.
Because they (=all of them) are not, simple as that. Do not fight a strawman, I am in no way saying "none of her Lutzes should be called". It's simply the intensity with which Anna is repeatedly, season by season, scrutinized, doubted, criticized that is incomparable with any other top lady, esp. considering that every season all Anna's "sins" from the previous seasons are pulled out from the magician's hat again and again
Sometimes I really have to wonder what is the motivation for all of that, because there is hardly any excitement for skating as a whole. I also have favourite and "less favourite" skaters, but just like @sclloyd has written, everyone "could go look up the skates right now and nitpick", but it's not "worth of it." That's maybe why I'm reacting to such comments, because I simply do not understand.
It should be like pairs, flip and Lutz should have the same base value and no such thing as a call. Today the intended content is based on the entrance to the jump not the jump itself.
So how do we highlight the arbitrariness of these calls? We look at who gets them overlooked the most:
18-19: Anna Lze/Lz!, Alena Lz!
19-20: Anna Lz!
20-21: Anna Lz!, Sasha Fe
21-22: Anna Lz!, Sasha Fe/F!, Alena Lz!
Who is the one with the most issues overlooked? That is clear in my opinion
Another motivation is that some people discredit Alena and Sasha because “Anna always delivers at Rusnats and they do not” so I think we need to push back on that narrative and say, no, Anna has given 3 champion-worthy performances at Rusnats but Sasha has also given 1 and so has Alena
In your opinion.
So it's not a rule, yet people think it is...
Yes it is your opinion. But it also means that you disqualify every single judge internationally and nationally for the last four years because they don't apply to the rules as you wish.
I don't have any problems with your opinions. In fact, I also think that Osmond should have been second in 2018.
But your tone is not that of one who has an opinion. You are posting stuff as they are facts. That's my problem.
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- Aug 20, 2019
Well yes and no. Jumps that are taken off with excessive prerotation are supposed to be downgraded. ISU lists the toe-axel as the most common example but states it applies to any forward takeoff. This doesn’t really have anything to do with the full blade assist though, because when you see skaters like Anna with full blade assist it doesn’t really change their jump rotation technique, just how much of the foot is on the ice, unlike the ToeSal at rostelecom from Morisi where almost all of his momentum in the jump came from the edge hitting the half turn pre-rotation mark as if it were actually a sal. Blade assist can contribute to cheating jump takeoffs but it isn’t always indicative of cheating the jump.
In general jumps with changing edges on landing in jump combos are to see devalued GOE and any apparent weight shifts that come from this or from foot down landings or weight shifts in eulers are to be downgraded to a Jump+Jump COMBO. We see that these rules are not ever applied so it’s obvious that the tech panel doesn’t mean much of anything. Once you understand that it’s easy to understand why a number of people are confused about the rules.
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- May 24, 2019
Didn’t Anna fall in France because she slipped on her full blade assist? I’ve watched it in ultra slow mo and that’s certainly what it looks like.
Well, yeah, because she mispicked...she doesn't usually pick the way she did there, hence why she doesn't usually have a habit of eating the ice when she does toepick jumps.
This isn't directed to you specifically, you just happen to be the last person I've seen saying something similar so sorry if this seems rude, but I think it's crazy that people will see a girl with this technique successfully land 5-7 triple and quad lutzes and flips every competition she enters (even more if we include toeloops) - and then watch her have one (1) awful fall in a competition, which was full of awful fluke falls from many other skaters, and was also filmed having puddles on the ice that needed to be swept away with a squeegee mop, and is generally known for having awful ice conditions causing many skaters to have uncharacteristic falls - and blame that one (1) fall on her technique.
Because I've also seen countless people claim that Anna only has such a good success rate on her quads because she has this "cheat" technique. It doesn't add up.
I'm not even saying her technique is good. I understand the complaints about her prerotation and whatnot. I'm just saying that clearly it works for her if she's cleanly landing triples and quads with that technique, and it's kind of silly to blame one fluke fall in a competition full of fluke falls on this same technique that, objectively, has a high success rate for her.
Anyway, going off topic, Anna (and others) have no reason to change their technique unless ISU changes their rules, because they have no reason to be penalised under the current system. Imo, the current rules about prerotation are so vague that they're essentially impossible to implement, even if any tech panel or judge woke up tomorrow and actually wanted to implement them. "Forward takeoff" is just such an odd, clumsy way of saying things in a sport where not even all the jumps take off backwards. It's so unspecific. We can only assume that forward means 180 degrees, but as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), that number actually doesn't appear in the rules. ISU has also informed us (not in the main rulebook, but in videos, if I'm not wrong) that different jumps have different "ideals" for prerotation - lutzes and flips 90 degrees, toeloops 130 degrees etc. So do you add the 180 on top of those allowances, making it 270 for a lutz/flip and 310 for a toeloop - or do you take it from 0 and just negate all the differences between jumps and their takeoffs? And if you do the latter, does that mean you have to punish every skater who does a loop? Not to mention that the judges aren't allowed to review prerotation in slow motion for some reason. It's written in a way that's impossible to implement. It might as well just not be there the way it's written now.
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My apologies for using the incorrect tone
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Because judges/TP do not have time for that. It's all good and dandy to make all that suggestions - but here is reality check:
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From that point of view Anna's edge calls on all lutzes in Cup of China event is perfect example of such selective approach (whether the calls were right or not) - if only from perspective of unusually high reviews number - since other skaters benefitted from having less degree of scrutiny.
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