2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Arbitrary]

If you don't remember, you should have at least read the last post before yours with the quote from her.
She always said that she can't imagine her life without skating and I don't think that changed..

"Skating" not necessary means "competitive skating". Doing all over again next 4 years is a great but very demanding target.

Can't believe there's people who actually believe Liza should go to the Olympics over Anna...
Anna, the only skater who has ever beaten Kamila? The only one out of 3A who has consistently delivered strong results and proven that she has nerves of steel in high-stake competitions since all 3 turned senior?

Some were very disappointed by 2nd/3rd placement at the RusNats.
The idea was to fire Trusova, hire Liza for the Teams SP and Valieva to do the FP.
Few obstacles encountered: a) Sasha finished above Anna, b) Teams Gold became hardly reachable with no men and problematic pairs&dances.
There is another target declared: to sweep the podium for the Ladies event. And Liza is less suitable here.

 

[McBibus]

Who cares if juniors were underscored vs. Anna or not? Samodelkina, Petrosyan, and Muravieva will have their chances among seniors next year. Winning over Anna now is of no importance - she is not their competitor. What they should care about is their relative placements (which was quite close) and Akatieva + Zhilina.

I agree about Anna not being their battle but that is a point against the rusfed not in favour.
It's literally what makes me mad about it.

What good overscoring did to Anna? nothing: It just put in her in a bad light. Anna can score for herself.
She's WC and 3 times NC. She does not need to be gifted a poisoned bronze.
The only "winning" side was the fed (and maybe some "lobbyist") showing they can manipulate the competition the way they want.

As for "who cares" in general I do.
Were the junior in the competition or was it just a pleasure trip to play with the grown up?
Everyone deserves to be scored fairly.
I'm not talking about personal judgement (for example I would have place Samodelkina just above Petrosian but I'm absolutely ok with the result) I'm talking about blatant alterations of the reality.
That is the way this sport credibility sinks down the drain.

 

[ScattyKatty]

I can’t believe anyone really believes Sofia M, with a 3A and a stunning programme really deserved to be behind Anna. Sofia received typical junior scoring and still beat her - until the ‘correction’.

 

[Scott512]

Doesn't work like that. All that matters are the current national standings. The standings say that Sasha is the #2 woman in Russia, and the Russian federation rules state that the #1 and #2 skaters are guaranteed spots at Europeans and Olympics, no skate off required. Only Anna is not yet assigned a spot on the Olympic team.

Russian federation doesn't always pay attention to their own rules.

We will have a better idea where Anna is at after Europeans. Let's hope there is Europeans and they don't cancel it this year.
Unless something unforeseen happens which is possible then this is the Olympic team.

 

[[email protected]]

Has Anna said anything about finishing up after this season???

Why would she? Did Adelina say? Did Alina say? Did Zhenya say? Yes, Zhenya said a month ago or so after not competing for more than a year.

It is just my guess. If Anna does not restore her quads it would be little sense for her to keep going on with those super human training intensity. At the same time, I shall reiterate that if the age limit is indeed raised the dynamics will be different. Usacheva, Khromykh, Muravieva, Petrosyan, Samodelkina, and the biggest travesty of them all - Valieva - will be juniors. Next season then will be a circus. With such Anna will be needed same as Sasha, Alyona and to a lesser extent Liza.

 

[Scott512]

I can’t believe anyone really believes Sofia M, with a 3A and a stunning programme really deserved to be behind Anna. Sofia received typical junior scoring and still beat her - until the ‘correction’.

That girl is tremendous and really coming on. Sonya M will help Plushie as a coach. His reputation as a coach will only increase with this girl rising to the top of the Russian ladies in the next couple of years.

This Sofia also has the motivation to be exceptional because she was turned down by EG.

I think she's going to be a real challenger for Sofia A at junior nationals and junior worlds.

 

[Scott512]

Why would she? Did Adelina say? Did Alina say? Did Zhenya say? Yes, Zhenya said a month ago or so after not competing for more than a year.

It is just my guess. If Anna does not restore her quads it would be little sense for her to keep going on with those super human training intensity. At the same time, I shall reiterate that if the age limit is indeed raised the dynamics will be different. Usacheva, Khromykh, Muravieva, Petrosyan, Samodelkina, and the biggest travesty of them all - Valieva - will be juniors. Next season then will be a circus. With such Anna will be needed same as Sasha, Alyona and to a lesser extent Liza.

Can you imagine if they raise the age to 20
KV may not qualify for next Olympics after possibling winning these Olympics? Lol.

The push is on to raise the age limit and it doesn't even seem like the Russian federation is trying to fight at this time. Samodelkina wants the age limit raised and shes 14!
But I think she wants it raised for selfish reasons she will be about 19 at the 2026 Olympics and she won't want some 15 year old phenom to take her spot.

Whatever they raise it to they damn well better raise the age limit for the men. They do more brutal programs more falling more quads more triple axles it's actually more dangerous with the men. Women mature earlier obviously we all know that. If so if they raise the age limit for women to 17 they should raise it to 20 for the men. But they won't because this is a Russian thing. I think the Russian federation should be demanding to the International skating Union that they will only accept an increase to age 16 for the ladies. My guess it goes to 17 and we never see a future KV a future Alina a future Tara a future Oksana etc. Is is that really better for the sport that we would have never seen these phenomens hit it big at 15 or 16?

I think Anna will hang around for a couple years at least unless she unless she's having physical problems we don't know about. A lot of people think she's going to quit early I don't see it. Even if she's not in the top 3 or 4 Russian ladies a year from now so what?

 

[Fluture]

Usacheva, Khromykh, Muravieva, Petrosyan, Samodelkina, and the biggest travesty of them all - Valieva - will be juniors.

No, they wouldn't as they've competed as seniors already. They'd be grandfathered in, it has happened before.

 

[Vemvane]

I shall reiterate that if the age limit is indeed raised the dynamics will be different. Usacheva, Khromykh, Muravieva, Petrosyan, Samodelkina, and the biggest travesty of them all - Valieva - will be juniors.

Presumably a raised age limit (were it to happen) wouldn't be applied retroactively, and current seniors would be grandfathered in. It wouldn't make sense to send them back to juniors. Of course, sport governing bodies don't always decide to do the sensible thing.

Edit: ninja'd by @Fluture

 

[[email protected]]

Then we shall have the most ridiculous outcome of them all. The grandfathered VUH would keep the lead until the next generation matures. Starting with the next generation I would see the following picture: There is a cutthroat competition among juniors. Junior events (women only) will be the key and Russian juniors are likely to dominate. After all those years of dog fights those who survive and "mature" 2 or 1 seasons before the games will compete 1 or 2 seasons before retirement or switching to "Leonova style". Those unlucky ones who turn 17 during the year of the OG and the next one will aim at the closest WC before retirement. OLympics will be off limits to them. The kaleidoscope of Russian names among top ladies in the seniors will be astonishing - the main "longevity" of the skaters will be in the junior circle.

Figure skaters will be like mayflies. The larva of those insects live up to 4 years. However, imago live just 1 day.

Of course, this does not concern situations like Carolina Kostner. It's only about Russia and to much lesser extent about Japan and Korea.

 

[starlight97]

The Olympics haven't even happened yet, in fact the Team has not even been officially announced. Yet, the discussion here is what junior will go to the next Olympics in 4y and who of the current skaters, including 17yo Anna and Sasha who revolutionized the sport only 3 years ago with their quads, and 15yo Kamila, who might just be the greatest talent the sport has ever produced, will retire when.
Really goes to show what has happened to our sport over the past 8 years.
Nobody in 2010 or 2014 was saying: "That Yuna girl is 19 already! So you think she'll do the Worlds or just retire directly after the Olympics? Incredible that she even made it here."
"Oh Lipnitskaya is 15, perfect peak age to go to the Olympics and if it goes well she'll just retire afterwards, if not maybe 1 more season?"

Yuna was at a perfectly normal age to us and Yulia's whole media selling point was that she was "sooo young" and that it was "unheard of" to have a 15yo contending for a medal, that she must be a "Wunderkind". Today she'd be a nobody in the Russian field with her tech and she'd already have been discarded long ago.
I'm neither for nor against Tutberidze but you can really say one thing about her, she's changed the sport forever and no matter how much people whine about raising the age limit, there's no going back, just face it.
There is no way to forcefully counteract these developments with ludacris rules and restrictions from the outside, that will only further alienate the sport to the public. At most it will be self-limiting and at some point, when a peak is reached, it will burn itself out and everyone will change their ways from the inside.

 

[Aimee-01]

Does anyone know when junior nationals is? Also will it be streamed on the channel 1 YouTube channel?

 

[lopsilceci]

I can’t believe anyone really believes Sofia M, with a 3A and a stunning programme really deserved to be behind Anna. Sofia received typical junior scoring and still beat her - until the ‘correction’.

She's overscored in PCS. She received almost 2 points more than Samodelkina and Petrosyan, who are not less artistic or talented.
At least, I don't see anything that she's doing that they're not doing too.

 

[McBibus]

The Olympics haven't even happened yet, in fact the Team has not even been officially announced. Yet, the discussion here is what junior will go to the next Olympics in 4y and who of the current skaters, including 17yo Anna and Sasha who revolutionized the sport only 3 years ago with their quads, and 15yo Kamila, who might just be the greatest talent the sport has ever produced, will retire when.
Really goes to show what has happened to our sport over the past 8 years.
Nobody in 2010 or 2014 was saying: "That Yuna girl is 19 already! So you think she'll do the Worlds or just retire directly after the Olympics? Incredible that she even made it here."
"Oh Lipnitskaya is 15, perfect peak age to go to the Olympics and if it goes well she'll just retire afterwards, if not maybe 1 more season?"

Yuna was at a perfectly normal age to us and Yulia's whole media selling point was that she was "sooo young" and that it was "unheard of" to have a 15yo contending for a medal, that she must be a "Wunderkind". Today she'd be a nobody in the Russian field with her tech and she'd already have been discarded long ago.
I'm neither for nor against Tutberidze but you can really say one thing about her, she's changed the sport forever and no matter how much people whine about raising the age limit, there's no going back, just face it.
There is no way to forcefully counteract these developments with ludacris rules and restrictions from the outside, that will only further alienate the sport to the public. At most it will be self-limiting and at some point, when a peak is reached, it will burn itself out and everyone will change their ways from the inside.

A reduced shelf life is a problem for any sport.
True legends not only won everything (like Alina) but also manage to stay at the top for long time fighting it off with generations of rivals like Yuzuru or Chan who got their first world podium a decade ago.

I often wonder if what we are seeing now in term of shelf life of women is permanent due to body changes around the booming age or it is a temporary effect of a revolution in progress.
I'm inclined toward the second: I think right now each generation si better than before and some of the currents quadsters will retain quads after puberty.
So good side will be established skaters with a TES competitive with the booming challengers, bad side a lot of skaters with coin flip quads result in competition looking like a splash fest
Current problem with men: few solid quadsters who can build a performance arounf ultra-C a lot of "quad and pray" that are a pain for the eyes and few "artits" that are beutiful to admire even between falls (Carolina the best example of that: she could be wonderful even in a program with 2 falls)

A second consideration abbout shelf life wil be not only "technically" maintaing the quads but the cost of the quad training on the girl body: girls that could ultra-c past 18 if healthy but could not manage to remain healthy enough to compete at their true potential.
Zenya (who probably never even tried a quad) is a scary example, Aliona may have problems dealing with her growth but whe never saw her in top condition the last 2 years, and I also think Anna has never been fully healthy this whole season.

 

[prorussian fan]

Can't believe there's people who actually believe Liza should go to the Olympics over Anna...
Anna, the only skater who has ever beaten Kamila? The only one out of 3A who has consistently delivered strong results and proven that she has nerves of steel in high-stake competitions since all 3 turned senior?

Liza had a good FP but as many have already said, her BV is still lower than Anna's with the fall on her quad. Having 3A's is not enough for russian ladies unless they have strong combos and other strong elements too.
As for why Anna only went for 1 quad, I think it probably had more to do with being cautious rather than injury or something like that. She might have gone for another one if the first one had worked. She and the coaches knew it would be enough with 1 quad and the goal was not to win this time, but to secure a place on the podium. She got the job done.

As for the SP, Muravyova should have never been ahead of Anna, even before the belated deduction. That was definitely a dumb move the judges had to do to correct their mistake. Even the japanese didn't place Mana over Kaori and Wakaba in the SP, when Mana landed 3A and Kaori and Wakaba didn't.

Anna, going alone for a quad, explained it in an interview. If she lands the first cleanly, she feels safe to go for the second. On the other hand, if she fails the first quad, she prefers to play it safe by relying on her BV, which only reinforces her intelligent character and fighting spirit. As many have already mentioned, never discard Anna, she has never been overtaken by Kaori who right now would be the only non-Russian opportunity to the Olympic podium, therefore she is the smartest option. Liza tends to chaos after a failure (like the national short program, after failing 3A she didn't even try 3-3), sending her is to lessen the chances of the Russian sweep in Beijing.

 

[prorussian fan]

Why would she? Did Adelina say? Did Alina say? Did Zhenya say? Yes, Zhenya said a month ago or so after not competing for more than a year.

It is just my guess. If Anna does not restore her quads it would be little sense for her to keep going on with those super human training intensity. At the same time, I shall reiterate that if the age limit is indeed raised the dynamics will be different. Usacheva, Khromykh, Muravieva, Petrosyan, Samodelkina, and the biggest travesty of them all - Valieva - will be juniors. Next season then will be a circus. With such Anna will be needed same as Sasha, Alyona and to a lesser extent Liza.

In case the absurd rule of raising the age limit is accepted, it will not affect all those skaters who have previously competed on the senior circuit. This rule would go into effect in the 23-24 season.

 

[flanker]

Does anyone know when junior nationals is? Also will it be streamed on the channel 1 YouTube channel?

18-22 january, just after the Europeans. It should be streamed with Ted's commentary again.

 

[flanker]

Japan newspaper issue about russian nationals:

 

[lurkerghost1]

She's overscored in PCS. She received almost 2 points more than Samodelkina and Petrosyan, who are not less artistic or talented.
At least, I don't see anything that she's doing that they're not doing too.

Muravyeva was the #1 Plushenko skater at the event and Petrosyan was the #5 Eteri skater, of course she would get lower PCS. Samodelkina was the #1 Davydov skater yes but his team isn’t in favor politically and don’t get the scores, like Panova

 

[lurkerghost1]

18-22 january, just after the Europeans. It should be streamed with Ted's commentary again.

Wow so we go straight from Europeans to Junior nationals to four continents what an exciting week