US Olympic Team Announced

[lurkerghost1]

Winning the silver medal put Ilya in Priority Group 3, the same group Jason was in. Had Ilya won the gold medal Ilya would still have been in priority group 3.

Further filtering criteria are as follows:

Placement at 2021 World Championships.

Benchmark is top 10.

Jason meets this criteria (7th at Worlds). Ilya does not.

They both made their respective GP/JGP finals. Both were cancelled. Draw.

Both had 2 GP events plus one challenger. Jason finished with a score in the top 10 in all 3. Ilya had one score in top 15. Two scores not top 15. Advantage Jason.

Median consistency - Jason top 10. Ilya not top 15

Trending scores - Ilya wins this one. His scores trended upward from the Challenger to Nationals.

Final criteria (tiebreaker) is comparison of 2020 and 2021 US Nationals.

Jason 2021 US Nationals - 3rd Ilya WD

2022 US Nationals. Jason 4th. Ilya 2nd. Advantage Jason

It’s very clear that at the time these criteria were approved, USFS was favoring consistency and that’s what swung the pendulum very heavily in Jason’s favor.

Not sure what you mean by “someone like Malinin.”

From where I sit, that’s a skater with one very good performance. And no, using this criteria there is no way for such a skater to make the team.

But Vincent also had only one very good performance in the period they're considering (Worlds 2021 - Nationals 2022) at Skate America. But see here why that means the USFS actually is making nationals the least important event of the year:

The problem with the criteria is very simple: an Olympic medal-worthy performance at any random international event matters MORE than an Olympic medal-worthy performance at nationals, aka nationals are the least important event of the year. Sure, actually winning a world 2021 or GPF 2022 medal should have been enough to put you in priority group 2, I have no problem with that.

But Vincent got into priority group 2 using one potential top-3 score (Skate America). Without that performance, he would be in priority group 3 or 4. What this means essentially is Vincent's 1 medal-worthy performance in the last year (Skate America) is more important than Malinin's 1 medal-worthy performance (US Nats). Worse, Vincent could have made that same score at a random challenger, and USFS would still have put him in group 2. So what USFS is really saying is that Ondrej Nepela Trophy or whatever matters more to them than their own nationals.

In the future if they keep this priority group ranking it really should be World or GPF only for the "1 potential score" criteria. No GPs or challengers for that, but they can count for the "consistency" criteria. Maybe if you get medal-worthy scores at 2 GPs or challengers that should count but one is too little and once again makes nationals effectively irrelevant. Or not, we all know after all that USFS never pays attention to nationals anyway.

What I mean to say is, between Jason and Ilia in priority group 3, I understand selecting Jason. But in hindsight, it is really silly that Vincent was placed ahead of them in Priority Group 2 because the criteria valued his performance in Las Vegas in October more than Ilia's performance in Nashville 4 weeks before the Olympics. And if we actually boil down Ilia and Vincent's seasons: 1 medal performance vs. 1 medal performance, and the rest a total dud/disastrous for both. The criteria needs to be adjusted for next time.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I know all that, I am just trying to find out why he is pounding 4S, like it's the only quad there is, when everyone else starts with 4T? Is there some specific reason behind his fidelity to it? I mean, there has to be a way to fix this problem? What did he try over the years? When did he even start on it? Did he actually do this very thing since 2014? Come out and go for 4S at the start of his free?

Some don't start with the 4T, and some only do the salchow (like Brezina and Amodio).

I don't want to grill Brown but because his overall skating has always been sublime and he's (deservedly) gotten high GOE on spins and non-ultra jumps and progressively higher PCS to compete at the higher levels, there's always been this "the quads will come!" coddling mentality surrounding him because the rest of his skating is great (I blame you Sandra Bezic lol).

If Jason was losing more and didn't get the PCS to keep him in the game, I wonder if that would have spurred him to attempt the quad sooner and try harder. This isn't to say he wasn't trying to train it (some guys just never get a quad no matter what, but they fizzle out because they lack other things too).... but when we say "not for lack of trying" we should consider that Jason almost never incorporated quad attempts in compeittion. Jason is a play-it-safe skater... I can't recall if he's every tried a quad in his SP, even at lower level events but someone feel free to show otherwise. As for the FS, he's never done more than one quad attempt in a FS and certainly at Worlds the attempt has always been < or <<).

 

[moonvine]

I still have a problem with the believability of claims by people here that it was obvious in advance due to criteria
that he wouldn't be selected anyways no matter what heading into the event

Then why were people who know a thing or two even debating about this after the event,
Or why weren't commentators or pundits mentioning that as a fact beforehand?
It must've been an option to send him, No?

I don’t know what to tell you. The criteria are what they are. It’s possible someone thought that USFS would just throw their criteria in the fire.

Don’t know who you include as “commentators or pundits.” No one on NBC is going to break down all that criteria. They just want a good story. Jackie Wong broke it down and made a graphic of it. Which made it very clear who would be chosen if USFS stuck to their criteria.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I didn't have an issue with Rippon over Miner,
I don't think I said that at all

Only that it feels like the USFS are switching to whichever criteria they want for whenever it fits what they want at the moment,
But another poster mentioned that this is the first time they advertised specific criteria so I guess that would have to suffice
as an explanation

Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. Yes, you're right, the US are arbitrary in their selections sometimes but it seems you can find examples in all the major countries like Russia and Japan, which I suppose makes sense because it's these three countries which generally have the greatest depth so BOW/arbitrary/popularity-based decisions are likely to happen more.

 

[lariko]

What I mean to say is, between Jason and Ilia in priority group 3, I understand selecting Jason. But in hindsight, it is really silly that Vincent was placed ahead of them in Priority Group 2 because the criteria valued his performance in Las Vegas in October more than Ilia's performance in Nashville 4 weeks before the Olympics. And if we actually boil down Ilia and Vincent's seasons: 1 medal performance vs. 1 medal performance, and the rest a total dud/disastrous for both. The criteria needs to be adjusted for next time.

That misrepresents Zhou's performance this season. His performance on Nebelhorn and 2 GP stages was better than Brown's. If Zhou was tentatively silver in his 2nd GP, Brown was tentatively silver and tentatively bronze in both of his 2 stages, skating with far, far, far lighter tech, but still popping and falling in basically every program.

In this very Nationals, Zhou’s SP was au par with Chen’s. He didn’t do well in the free, which is literally 1 skate. In all other competitions, he did enough. If Brown is allowed PCS/GoE as valid ways to get ahead, so should Zhou be allowed the same.

In addition, his PCSs are objectively higher than Malinin's and are supported by international scoring. Malinin vs Brown makes sense, Malinin vs Zhou just doesn't. Seriously, there is no grounds for leaving Zhou off the team, with a month to prep for the games where he can rest and re-focus after by necessity having to perform strongly in the beginning of the season.

 

[Tavi...]

Agreed that he's been nervy in the FS in his past two comps, but Jason has yet to cleanly do a 3A in the SP and doesn't have one quad let alone two.

If US wants to maximize points and Chen is only doing one segment, it really makes sense for them to go with Zhou. He's had 4 clean SPs (and gets better each time out), and his FS average is higher than Brown's. Yes, Zhou's worst FS (161.18 at NHK) is worst than Jason's 165.55 at SC, but Zhou's other two free skates got 198.13 and 186.68 while Brown's were 170.13 and 174.81, which would not be enough to hold off a solid Kolyada and certainly not enough to challenge the Japanese.

I'm also a bit unsure as to why Zhou doesn't incorporate the quad flip in his SP. It's been one of his most reliable quads in the FS, and gains more points than his 4S which often gets a 'q' on it. I'm betting for the Olympics he'll go for broke with 4Z and 4F, and he's more apt to land them now than he did in 2018.

Bearing in mind that I would be perfectly fine if Jason wasn’t selected for either leg of the team event (I mean, he already did it once and has a medal, and since he’s older it might be easier on his body to just do the individual (though he may disagree )) for the SP I don’t really see how it’s relevant that he doesn’t have a quad in SP and that his 3A hasn’t been perfect. Despite that he’s averaged in low 90s, and would be most likely to place 2/3 in the SP. Regarding the FS, with imperfect programs he’s been averaging about 170 (I think) and is most likely to place third. Could Vincent outscore him? Absolutely. But again, I think the issue may be nerves.

One other thing is that Jason has always been a huge team player. He usually seems to do his best when he’s helping gain or maintain Olympic and World spots (see 2015 Worlds, 2017 Worlds, 2021 Worlds). If he screws up, more often than not it’s when it impacts him but not the team.

Anyway, should be exciting to see how things go, and I’m praying that ALL of our team members and alternates stay healthy and injury free.

 

[el henry]

Some don't start with the 4T, and some only do the salchow (like Brezina and Amodio).

I don't want to grill Brown but because his overall skating has always been sublime and he's (deservedly) gotten high GOE on spins and non-ultra jumps and progressively higher PCS to compete at the higher levels, there's always been this "the quads will come!" coddling mentality surrounding him because the rest of his skating is great (I blame you Sandra Bezic lol).

If Jason was losing more and didn't get the PCS to keep him in the game, I wonder if that would have spurred him to attempt the quad sooner and try harder. This isn't to say he wasn't trying to train it (some guys just never get a quad no matter what, but they fizzle out because they lack other things too).... but when we say "not for lack of trying" we should consider that Jason almost never incorporated quad attempts in compeittion. Jason is a play-it-safe skater... I can't recall if he's every tried a quad in his SP, even at lower level events but someone feel free to show otherwise. As for the FS, he's never done more than one quad attempt in a FS and certainly at Worlds the attempt has always been < or <<).

"Coddling mentality"? From the judges? From USFS?

I don't think so, Tim.

Jason has had to fight for every single point he has earned from the judges, by working so hard at being superior in the non-jumping skills. They have "given" him nothing.

USFS could not wait, and would not hesitate, to throw him over if he didn't earn those points in other elements. From international judges. Jason said how he internalized the constant hammering that he needed a quad so that he felt worthless and didn't value what he did do well.

Fortunately he is mature now and knows just what he brings.

Jason Brown: 'I kill it in a different way'

Anyone who watched Jason Brown’s “Sinnerman” short program knows how mesmerizing figure skating can be when a gifted skater teams up with a talented choreographer who selects just the right material.

olympics.nbcsports.com

 

[readernick]

I guess that's fair, But I think the content of this criteria and the timing of it's publishing are very
suspect when you could already kinda see where the winds were blowing for some specific people,
And which events were lined up.

This is also a fair point I actually do think the USFS may have had some of the women in mind when they published it. They didn't want a super inconsistent skater like Amber Glenn who occasionally shows a great program or two to be on the team. ( Love Amber but I understand the USFS's view) I really don't think it was designed with the men in mind but it did end up affecting that decision. Nathan's super consistent and that's who they truly want in the team. I don't think they needed the criteria to protect him. Vincent hadn't yet shown incredible consistency for several years when this selection criteria was published so it wasn't specifically done to keep him on the team and Jason is consistent but could have been easily passed over by another US skater with more technical difficulty if they had shown up consistently on the GP. Basically, there may be bias in this criteria but it wasn't designed to specifically benefit the three men currently on the team.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

"Coddling mentality"? From the judges? From USFS?

I don't think so, Tim.

Jason has had to fight for every single point he has earned from the judges, by working so hard at being superior in the non-jumping skills. They have "given" him nothing.

USFS could not wait, and would not hesitate, to throw him over if he didn't earn those points in other elements. From international judges. Jason said how he internalized the constant hammering that he needed a quad so that he felt worthless and didn't value what he did do well.

Fortunately he is mature now and knows just what he brings.

Jason Brown: 'I kill it in a different way'

Anyone who watched Jason Brown’s “Sinnerman” short program knows how mesmerizing figure skating can be when a gifted skater teams up with a talented choreographer who selects just the right material.

olympics.nbcsports.com

I think you just have to look at a protocol to see that what Jason does well is valuable. The fact that he can make the final flight without a quad while others do one or two quads is pretty indicative of that.

But if we had a dime for how often someone said "He's working on them, they'll come"... great. He simply wasn't competing them often enough. I get that's not what he does so he can stay in the mix, and skate cleanly, but I don't know if you can ever really learn how to land a quad consistently if you don't even compete it on a consistent basis.

And he has definitely gotten carrots from the judges like any high-PCS skater. His 4S wasn't called UR which it certainly was. He got 10's at Nationals in spite of a fall, which is literally against the rules (same happened with Chen and Zhou, too, mind you). He got a PCS personal best (92.72) at IDF where he two-footed a quad, singled a 3S and singled a 3L.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Bearing in mind that I would be perfectly fine if Jason wasn’t selected for either leg of the team event (I mean, he already did it once and has a medal, and since he’s older it might be easier on his body to just do the individual (though he may disagree )) for the SP I don’t really see how it’s relevant that he doesn’t have a quad in SP and that his 3A hasn’t been perfect. Despite that he’s averaged in low 90s, and would be most likely to place 2/3 in the SP. Regarding the FS, with imperfect programs he’s been averaging about 170 (I think) and is most likely to place third. Could Vincent outscore him? Absolutely. But again, I think the issue may be nerves.

One other thing is that Jason has always been a huge team player. He usually seems to do his best when he’s helping gain or maintain Olympic and World spots (see 2015 Worlds, 2017 Worlds, 2021 Worlds). If he screws up, more often than not it’s when it impacts him but not the team.

Anyway, should be exciting to see how things go, and I’m praying that ALL of our team members and alternates stay healthy and injury free.

If you're trying to go for Silver or Gold in the Team event and you're playing your odds you should leave Jason out of it.

It seems people are taking the points in this event too lightly, A placing or two could mean a medal difference,
Nathan should definitely do the SP, He could win it or be 2nd, Even with a mistake, Jason scoring mid 90s
could potentially finish also behind Kolyada and Jin, That's 2 points off in the overall scoring, if Jason has a mistake
and ends up closer to 90 he could also lose points to an Keegan, Morisi and whichever Italian man does it.

The odds favour Nathan, And you have to put him in this event somewhere for the medal, Plus I'd assume
he'd want the SP for psychological reasons as well.

in the Free when Jason skates fairly well And Vincent skates shaky they end up at around the same score,
So for the chance that Vincent nails it like SA and steals 9 or possibly 10 points you have to choose him,
The possible reward is too high and The downfall would be pretty much equal to the alternative.

 

[el henry]

I think you just have to look at a protocol to see that what Jason does well is valuable. The fact that he can make the final flight without a quad while others do one or two quads is pretty indicative of that.

But if we had a dime for how often someone said "He's working on them, they'll come"... great. He simply wasn't competing them often enough. I get that's not what he does so he can stay in the mix, and skate cleanly, but I don't know if you can ever really learn how to land a quad consistently if you don't even compete it on a consistent basis.

And he has definitely gotten carrots from the judges like any high-PCS skater. His 4S wasn't called UR which it certainly was. He got 10's at Nationals in spite of a fall, which is literally against the rules (same happened with Chen and Zhou, too, mind you). He got a PCS personal best (92.72) at IDF where he two-footed a quad, singled a 3S and singled a 3L.

The fact that Jason never threw jumps he couldn't do in a program for the sake of what? Throwing a jump out there? I say again, hardly "coddling" not to do that. That may be how you learn to do things, I don't know (truly I don't, I don't know you ). I will tell you now, it is not how I learn to do things, it would have been a disaster for me, and would have nothing to do with "coddling".

This is also the second time I've heard that somewhere, someone said "He's working on them, they'll come". I am a die hard Jason fan and I have never said it. Furthermore, I have followed Jason pretty closely over the past eight years and *never* heard anyone on his team say that. So no dimes there (dimes for what random people on the Internet say...well OK, collect those cyber dimes.)

Jumping off and not directed at this post, these are the misstatements of fact that I find most irksome, as they are provably not true,

Jason just doesn't try hard enough. Wrong.
Jason has never faced the consequences of not having a quad. Wrong
Jason is favored by the US Fed. Wrong

Someone can dislike Jason's skating, say I'd rather see those quads flying through the air, fine. But that can be done without misstatements of fact.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

@yume suggested Zonov.

I am kinda tired, but I am not catching up on logic of all men investing into learning Brown's choreo? He is already at an advantage, vs literally everyone else, so why do they need to invest additional efforts to prove absolutely nothing, because no Brown fan would ever accept anyone else ever again skating to Sinnerman, let alone skating it better?

It was slightly rhetorical/hypothetical, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Yes, some are very sure that nobody except Jason could do it, but I think artistic talent renews itself quite regularly. Otherwise why are there students in dance schools, or choreographers making new pieces? It's like saying 'Nijinsky existed, this random guy Nureyev shouldn't even try because he'll fall short'.
There are stars in every generation. They're all unique and can't be substituted for each other, but they don't hold a monopoly either.
I have issues with the term GOAT because it implies that the future will never surpass the present.

I've thought about this and I can't really imagine any current internationally known Senior skater pulling it off. ( I'm not saying that there aren't other artistic skaters, there certainly are ( and Jason isn't even my personal favorite) but not ones who I see this style of movement working for) . I love Alvin Ailey's unique, eclectic dance style and so I love Sinnerman. It's the primary reason I'm happy Jason going to the Olympics. It's art, culture, and athletes perfectly melded. Some of the artistic juniors might well be able to do it in a few years but I can't see them doing it now. It takes too much maturity and emotion. Among retired skaters, I think Takahashi could do this program justice but it would look a bit different although equally beautiful. Also, for some reason I could see Kurt Browning understanding the music and style of movement even though he doesn't have Jason's flexibility. I wonder who you think among current, future and former skating stars who could skate to that music well and what other posters think? This isn't really related to the thread but it is interesting to me.

Yes, stylistically Takahashi or Browning could definitely manage their own interesting takes on Sinnerman if they wanted (it has been used in skating before; I mean they in particular could pull off a similarly choreographically complex version to Brown's, not necessarily identical). Maybe Jeff Buttle too, as he was also good at sharp intricate footwork. Basically, someone who is not only a strong skater and artist, but who has some similarities in movement style to Jason (or the source material from AAADT).
I think it's important to distinguish artistic style from other good skating qualities, because the former is specific to the individual while the latter is a common parameter to compare different skaters. It's perfectly valid to say there was not and will never be another skater *like* Jason, but saying that no skaters will be *as good as* Jason... I can't agree.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Watching juniors. So, how long had this been going on? I think, I have seen maybe 3 last years or so.

Once again, sorry for the late-ish reply, but I don't think 'start on the 4T as opposed to the 4S' was ever really a thing. They're considered the two 'easy' quads, so most skaters will start on one or the other, but even that isn't a given. As for why a skater might start on 4S rather than 4T, the short and not particularly useful answer is that toe-loops are a toe jump and salcows are an edge jump. Some skaters just find one easier than the other. When Medvedeva was attempting quads under Orser, it was the 4S, and Tursybaeva and Miki Ando both jumped 4S but not 4T. On a far more interesting note, Daniel Grassl has a 4Lo, 4Lz and 4F but no 4S or 4T - the first three jumps are loop-type jumps (weight stays over the same leg throughout the whole jump) and 4S and 4T are both weight-redistribution jumps (weight moves from one leg to the other over the course of the jump), so Grassl clearly prefers the former over the latter.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Final criteria (tiebreaker) is comparison of 2020 and 2021 US Nationals.

Jason 2021 US Nationals - 3rd Ilya WD

2022 US Nationals. Jason 4th. Ilya 2nd. Advantage Jason

How in the world would you give this to Jason when his placement dropped and both results were below Ilya's 2022? Some of you are really stretching the truth to make it seem like the USFSA had no choice but to pick him. No regard for the actual placement at Nationals (i.e. you would argue 1st vs 5th should be treated the same as 3rd vs 4th to give the leading skater a checkmark there), or the actual scores earned at the event.

 

[lariko]

The fact that Jason never threw jumps he couldn't do in a program for the sake of what? Throwing a jump out there? I say again, hardly "coddling" not to do that. That may be how you learn to do things, I don't know (truly I don't, I don't know you ). I will tell you now, it is not how I learn to do things, it would have been a disaster for me, and would have nothing to do with "coddling".

This is also the second time I've heard that somewhere, someone said "He's working on them, they'll come". I am a die hard Jason fan and I have never said it. Furthermore, I have followed Jason pretty closely over the past eight years and *never* heard anyone on his team say that. So no dimes there (dimes for what random people on the Internet say...well OK, collect those cyber dimes.)

Jumping off and not directed at this post, these are the misstatements of fact that I find most irksome, as they are provably not true,

Jason just doesn't try hard enough. Wrong.
Jason has never faced the consequences of not having a quad. Wrong
Jason is favored by the US Fed. Wrong

Someone can dislike Jason's skating, say I'd rather see those quads flying through the air, fine. But that can be done without misstatements of fact.

Well, I watch other skaters for 3 years, and I see some of them making improvements, a lot of them in the areas where Brown excels. However Brown during that time failed to gain a single jump and didn’t visibly improve on anything. His jumping this season may even got worse, and he started to l make mistakes on spins. Unless he was always making mistakes on spins. So, I can see what @CanadianSkaterGuy is saying, maybe he is not training the volume he needs? Or he hit the limit of his abilities and he is backsliding?

 

[Tavi...]

If you're trying to go for Silver or Gold in the Team event and you're playing your odds you should leave Jason out of it.

It seems people are taking the points in this event too lightly, A placing or two could mean a medal difference,
Nathan should definitely do the SP, He could win it or be 2nd, Even with a mistake, Jason scoring mid 90s
could potentially finish also behind Kolyada and Jin, That's 2 points off in the overall scoring, if Jason has a mistake
and ends up closer to 90 he could also lose points to an Keegan, Morisi and whichever Italian man does it.

The odds favour Nathan, And you have to put him in this event somewhere for the medal, Plus I'd assume
he'd want the SP for psychological reasons as well.

in the Free when Jason skates fairly well And Vincent skates shaky they end up at around the same score,
So for the chance that Vincent nails it like SA and steals 9 or possibly 10 points you have to choose him,
The possible reward is too high and The downfall would be pretty much equal to the alternative.

Yes, well, as I’ve said, I’m not taking any position at all on who should be named to the team.

Nathan is obviously the safest bet, not just because he’s got the highest scores, but because he’s very, very reliable. I think Nathan previously said he’d like to do the SP. He still may. However, since he mentioned an injury recently, people are speculating as to the alternatives if he opts out.

I agree that scores are important, and Vincent is obviously capable of scoring very high - much higher than Jason. However, it appears to me he’s been nervy in competition recently, and if I were selecting the team SP (which is the more important of the two programs) that is something I would consider. It doesn’t mean I wouldn’t end up choosing him, but I would certainly take that into account.

Jason isn’t capable of scoring as high as Vincent in either program, but in my opinion he’s more consistent. So I’d also take that into account.

Basically, points are important but they aren’t everything. It doesn’t matter how high you’re capable of scoring if you screw up and don’t do it on the day. That goes for every other guy who will be competing in that competition.

Anyway, that’s the way I look at it. You may disagree and that’s fine.

 

[lariko]

was slightly rhetorical/hypothetical, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Yes, some are very sure that nobody except Jason could do it, but I think artistic talent renews itself quite regularly. Otherwise why are there students in dance schools, or choreographers making new pieces? It's like saying 'Nijinsky existed, this random guy Nureyev shouldn't even try because he'll fall short'.

It would be preaching to the converted, because people who don’t subscribe to Brown is pinnacle of artistry doctrine already appreciate artistic expression of other skaters, in programs they chose themselves, their unique styles. People who can’t see anything but Brown will see it only as a caricature. The artists on Twitter often do the ‘draw in your own style’ challenge, but I can’t see it working in this case.

 

[dorispulaski]

Just to clear up some stuff about Ilia's BOW. The reason he has to somehow get the SP TES to qualify for worlds is not that he strategized badly and only skated as a junior.

He skated a senior Challenger event, CS Cup of Austria, and did really poorly in the SP, and did not quite get the TES of 34 required for Worlds 2022.

Event	Sr/Jr	SP	FS	Total
2021–22 season
2022 US Nationals	Senior	3 (103.46)	2 (199.02)	2 (302.48)
2021 CS Cup of Austria	Senior	13 (67.58)	2 (154.97)	3 (222.55)
2021 JGP Austria	Junior	1 (81.31)	1 (164.04)	1 (245.35)
2021 JGP France I	Junior	1 (80.07)	1 (134.57)	1 (214.64)

He should have been able to win this event.

How bad was he in the SP? It was a performance which would not have made the FS at Worlds. He would have been lower than Vincent's performance there, which did not qualify for the FS.

- Men - Short Program

www.isuresults.com

As it happens, he had a better showing in the CS Cup of Austria FS, and pulled up to third, but a skater has to skate average well in the SP to make the FS at all at World's, or to be better than 8th to 10th in the Olympic team SP.

Challenger Series Cup of Austria by Icechallenge​

Senior Men - Short Program​

​

Result Details​

Pl.	Name	Nation	TSS =	TES +		PCS +	SS	TR	PE	CO	IN	Deduction -	StN.
1​	Lucas Tsuyoshi HONDA	JPN​	83.95​	46.15​		37.80​	7.60​	7.35​	7.60​	7.60​	7.65​	0.00​	#15​
2​	Mihhail SELEVKO	EST​	82.61​	45.86​		36.75​	7.35​	7.10​	7.50​	7.35​	7.45​	0.00​	#19​
3​	Maurizio ZANDRON	AUT​	79.06​	43.26​		35.80​	7.00​	7.00​	7.10​	7.30​	7.40​	0.00​	#28​
4​	Nikita STAROSTIN	GER​	75.78​	42.58​		33.20​	6.60​	6.40​	6.80​	6.65​	6.75​	0.00​	#1​
5​	Arlet LEVANDI	EST​	75.10​	38.60​		36.50​	7.20​	7.05​	7.40​	7.35​	7.50​	0.00​	#5​
6​	Beres CLEMENTS	CAN​	71.45​	38.95​		32.50​	6.55​	6.40​	6.50​	6.55​	6.50​	0.00​	#14​
7​	Nicola TODESCHINI	SUI​	71.09​	39.09​		32.00​	6.55​	6.10​	6.50​	6.35​	6.50​	0.00​	#13​
8​	Luc MAIERHOFER	AUT​	70.60​	37.35​		33.25​	6.70​	6.40​	6.55​	6.75​	6.85​	0.00​	#25​
9​	Sena MIYAKE	JPN​	70.57​	36.17​		34.40​	7.25​	6.65​	6.75​	6.75​	7.00​	0.00​	#2​
10​	Landry LE MAY	FRA​	70.53​	36.88​		33.65​	6.80​	6.45​	6.80​	6.80​	6.80​	0.00​	#20​
11​	Jari KESSLER	CRO​	69.54​	34.24​		35.30​	7.00​	6.80​	7.10​	7.20​	7.20​	0.00​	#23​
12​	Nika EGADZE	GEO​	68.02​	35.47​		32.55​	6.70​	6.25​	6.50​	6.55​	6.55​	0.00​	#4​
13​	Ilia MALININ	USA​	67.58​	33.78​		34.80​	7.10​	6.75​	6.90​	7.05​	7.00​	1.00​	#18​
14​	Corey CIRCELLI	CAN​	67.41​	31.36​		36.05​	7.10​	7.10​	7.15​	7.30​	7.40​	0.00​	#26​
15​	Adrien TESSON	FRA​	66.44​	33.99​		32.45​	6.35​	6.20​	6.60​	6.60​	6.70​	0.00​	#17​

 

[moonvine]

How in the world would you give this to Jason when his placement dropped and both results were below Ilya's 2022? Some of you are really stretching the truth to make it seem like the USFSA had no choice but to pick him. No regard for the actual placement at Nationals (i.e. you would argue 1st vs 5th should be treated the same as 3rd vs 4th to give the leading skater a checkmark there), or the actual scores earned at the event.

By placing 2nd at US Nationals, Ilya got himself into Priority Group 3. 1-3 place is Priority Group 3. 4-5 place are priority group 4.
So 1-5 are not treated the same at all. 1-3 are treated the same and 4-5 are treated the same.
Once he was in Priority Group 3, the comparisons came in to determine which skater to take.

Ilya didn’t place at all in 2021 US Nationals (he WD) so there’s literally nothing to compare there.
That’s the tiebreaker anyway, which shouldn’t have come into play, because Jason had won every other category except for upward trajectory.

 

[skatesofgold]

Remember when BOW wasn't an argument at all. I miss those days. Both Kimmie Meissner and Emily Hughes were newbies even if the federation was hoping Michelle Kwan would be good to go in 2006. USFSA uses BOW just to prop up their favorites.