US Olympic Team Announced

[TontoK]

At this Olympics more than any other literally anything is possible.

I’m EXTREMELY concerned about this. I’ve said several times I’m prepared for anything from the podium to consist of skaters we would expect to skaters we would never expect. Say a Rizzo Aymoz Bychenko podium. I’m prepared for our whole team (or any other country’s whole team) to not be able to go and our team to consist of Ma, Malinim and Pulkanin. I think it is horrific that the Olympics are going ahead like this. But so far neither the IOC nor the organizing committee has called to ask my opinion.

I feel like I'm just waiting for the withdrawal announcements to start rolling in. I follow other sports, none as closely as I follow skating, but every week it's almost like the NFL injured list - you never know who is going to show up on the COVID list. In terms of the winter sports, it's hitting the sledding sports and Alpine skiing pretty hard. I think they're just passing it around.

I'm OK with any podium result - the one you listed is fine - I like them all for different reasons, but I'd hate for that to be because everyone else didn't get their chance.

 

[twilight]

I never said Jason could not have been picked under the criteria. I have always said Jason or Ilya could have been selected, as Jason has superior average international scores while Ilya was much better at Nationals, and that I would have gone with Ilya due to the tie breaker considerations like scores and the year-over-year improvement in the Nationals placement (essentially going from zero to 2nd, whereas Jason's placement dropped). My opinion is that, based on the tiebreaker, it is an obvious decision to go with Ilya (in addition to other good reasons that are not part of the selection criteria), because of the three tiebreakers, the first is a tie and the next two go to Ilya. While it is impressive that Jason skated well with all he had to get through to get to the competition, that is not part of the selection criteria. Also Dmitriev trying a 4A has nothing to do with the selection of Jason over Ilya; Ilya didn't just try quads, he executed them successfully. I'm also not considering what I think Ilya might be able to do or what Jason could never do; we're going on what they did at Nationals. The videos are online for all of us to watch. You Jason fans keep gaslighting, cherry-picking, and bringing up all these other considerations that have nothing to do with the actual selection process. There is no requirement that a skater has the Worlds minimum (although that's obviously not ideal), there is no guessing on whether Ilya can do multiple quads in competition, there is little doubt that Jason cannot do quads in competition, it doesn't matter what Nathan/Vincent/Dmitriov do when selecting from two athletes in group 3, and GP medals are not a factor (although high scores there can help).

Ilia is clearly the better skater. It is easy to up the ante in terms of performance when you're an older skater who isn't attempting multiple quads at the same time. Jason should not be going to the Olympics, as much as I love his skating. Ilia's technical capabilities and his performances were wonderful. USFSA should be promoting him now! Jason (if he is a caring individual) should relinquish his spot to Ilia. Jason is not going any further...

 

[moonvine]

I do.

As far as I know it is pewter, not chocolate. Have you skated as an elite skater where you have been so good at your craft and scored so highly that you won a pewter medal, and so you know that it's chocolate? That would be awesome.

(And just in general and not directed at your post, if I hear anything about participation ribbons, which a pewter medal is not, I'm breaking the old lady cybercane out of storage.)

I think they all bite the medals for photos. I don’t know why they do this but they do. So if it is chocolate it’s going to have a bite out of it.

I really don’t understand denigrating other people’s accomplishments. I would rather toot my own heavily bedazzled horn.

 

[moonvine]

I feel like I'm just waiting for the withdrawal announcements to start rolling in. I follow other sports, none as closely as I follow skating, but every week it's almost like the NFL injured list - you never know who is going to show up on the COVID list. In terms of the winter sports, it's hitting the sledding sports and Alpine skiing pretty hard. I think they're just passing it around.

I'm OK with any podium result - the one you listed is fine - I like them all for different reasons, but I'd hate for that to be because everyone else didn't get their chance.

I know. Like I said if it were up to me..delayed a year. Can you imagine if Nathan Chen doesn’t get to go? Well anyone really…to have worked and striven for so long and be taken out by a virus

The entire Israeli team had to pull out of Euros due to Covid.

I hope USFS has its Olympic team in one bubble and its alternates in a separate bubble.

 

[TontoK]

Ilia is clearly the better skater. It is easy to up the ante in terms of performance when you're an older skater who isn't attempting multiple quads at the same time. Jason should not be going to the Olympics, as much as I love his skating. Ilia's technical capabilities and his performances were wonderful. USFSA should be promoting him now! Jason (if he is a caring individual) should relinquish his spot to Ilia. Jason is not going any further...

Sorry no. I don't agree with the selection, but Jason had no role in that decision.

No matter what his potential may be, medal or otherwise, he has dreams like everyone else. He made the team, end of story.

Edit: I want to make this VERY CLEAR. The problems I have with the process should not, in any way, be construed to mean I have problems with the skaters themselves. We all have different opinions about the selection process, the interpretation of the criteria, etc... And that's fair game for discussion and debate, but Jason and Ilia... or Nathan, Vincent, Camden, Jimmy, etc... do not deserve to be dragged.

 

[el henry]

Ilia is clearly the better skater. It is easy to up the ante in terms of performance when you're an older skater who isn't attempting multiple quads at the same time. Jason should not be going to the Olympics, as much as I love his skating. Ilia's technical capabilities and his performances were wonderful. USFSA should be promoting him now! Jason (if he is a caring individual) should relinquish his spot to Ilia. Jason is not going any further...

Jason is the one of the most caring people you will ever want to meet.

And Jason is definitely not relinquishing a spot that he earned fair and square under the criteria used by USFS. So since you love his skating, you should be able to see more, and that's a plus for you!

 

[moonvine]

Ilia is clearly the better skater. It is easy to up the ante in terms of performance when you're an older skater who isn't attempting multiple quads at the same time. Jason should not be going to the Olympics, as much as I love his skating. Ilia's technical capabilities and his performances were wonderful. USFSA should be promoting him now! Jason (if he is a caring individual) should relinquish his spot to Ilia. Jason is not going any further...

Jason earned his spot under the criteria set by USFS. He is a very caring person but absolutely should not give up his spot. That’s ludicrous.

 

[treblemakerem]

Jason (if he is a caring individual) should relinquish his spot to Ilia.

Now that’s just ridiculous. They are both deserving. Unfortunately there is only 3 spots. US fed chose Jason. You can disagree with their choice but not giving up his spot in no way makes him uncaring.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think Jason is a long shot for an Olympic medal but I wouldn’t say it’s totally impossible.

Well, nothing is impossible. But the whole point of sending a team to the Olympics is to get medals, whether those athletes do it individually or contribute to a team medal. The purpose of the selection criteria is to clarify the strategy to achieve that singular goal, and to provide transparency to all stake holders and the fans. The programs that Ilya skated at Nationals, less than two months before the Olympics, are more likely to compete for medals than any of Jason's competitive efforts. Jason's highest US Champs score is 293 and highest international score is 275, and I don't think any of Jason's international efforts would score almost 30 points higher at Nationals. Obviously Ilya could bomb at the Olympics, as can any other skater. It's also true that Jason has a higher floor since there are more jump elements he does that are low risk given his ability to execute triples well. Sending a skater with a higher floor and a lower ceiling doesn't seem, to me, to be consistent with the goal of earning medals because it relies on the Olympics being a poorly skated event for that athlete to make the podium. It's especially perplexing when you're leaving home an athlete who has shown he could get there on his own merits with much less help from the field.

 

[yume]

I do.

As far as I know it is pewter, not chocolate. Have you skated as an elite skater where you have been so good at your craft and scored so highly that you won a pewter medal, and so you know that it's chocolate? That would be awesome.

(And just in general and not directed at your post, if I hear anything about participation ribbons, which a pewter medal is not, I'm breaking the old lady cybercane out of storage.)

It's funny how you're predictable now

I know that you know that i know it's a pewter medal, and that i call it chocolate because that's how 4th place is usually called. But you need to rant apparently.

You're free to value that 4th place, that PEWTER medal.

 

[iceskater10]

I know. Like I said if it were up to me..delayed a year. Can you imagine if Nathan Chen doesn’t get to go? Well anyone really…to have worked and striven for so long and be taken out by a virus

The entire Israeli team had to pull out of Euros due to Covid.

I hope USFS has its Olympic team in one bubble and its alternates in a separate bubble.

I just watched 2 Israeli women skate at Euro's this morning????

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Jason (if he is a caring individual) should relinquish his spot to Ilia.

Well, no I wouldn't go that far. Jason worked as hard as anyone else to compete for a spot and the USFSA went with his body of work over Ilya's. I don't think it was the right choice, but they were the two skaters in Group 3 and there was only one spot left after selecting from the higher priority groups. It really could have gone either way, and given the timing of Nationals it's not possible to have a Europeans-style skate-off to make the final selection.

 

[el henry]

It's funny how you're predictable now

I know that you know that i know it's a pewter medal, and that i call it chocolate because that's how 4th place is usually called. But you need to rant apparently.

You're free to value that 4th place, that PEWTER medal.

I like being consistent, that is a virtue to me.

I have honestly never heard it called chocolate. Not by Vincent when he won it, and not by one of my favorite skaters, Grant Hochstein, when he was the pewter prince.

I like the idea of it being actual chocolate better. All the medals should be chocolate.

 

[Mathman]

I like the idea of it being actual chocolate better. All the medals should be chocolate.

As King Midas found out, you can't eat gold.

 

[yume]

I have honestly never heard it called chocolate.

.....Ok

 

[Tavi...]

Well, nothing is impossible. But the whole point of sending a team to the Olympics is to get medals, whether those athletes do it individually or contribute to a team medal. The purpose of the selection criteria is to clarify the strategy to achieve that singular goal, and to provide transparency to all stake holders and the fans. The programs that Ilya skated at Nationals, less than two months before the Olympics, are more likely to compete for medals than any of Jason's competitive efforts. Jason's highest US Champs score is 293 and highest international score is 275, and I don't think any of Jason's international efforts would score almost 30 points higher at Nationals. Obviously Ilya could bomb at the Olympics, as can any other skater. It's also true that Jason has a higher floor since there are more jump elements he does that are low risk given his ability to execute triples well. Sending a skater with a higher floor and a lower ceiling doesn't seem, to me, to be consistent with the goal of earning medals because it relies on the Olympics being a poorly skated event for that athlete to make the podium. It's especially perplexing when you're leaving home an athlete who has shown he could get there on his own merits with much less help from the field.

Obviously, I’m not on the Committee so I can’t provide the answers you’re looking for. But a few thoughts:


- The US may be thinking about Jason’s proven consistency in connection with the team event, not in terms of his ability to gain an individual medal.

- An international score of 275 would be #5 on the season’s best list. Hanyu’s not currently on the list so let’s say #6.

- Although Ilia did great at Nats, there’s no guarantee he could repeat that at the Olympics. Nathan Chen has a long track record of killing it in major international competitions. Ilia doesn’t have the same track record.

- We can make a pretty good guess as to how Nathan will score. We don’t have many data points for Ilia. His other international scores this season range from 214-245. That’s not anywhere near 302.

- Even if Ilia could repeat his Nats skates, he would be unlikely to get the same PCS and GOE at the Olympics as he did at Nats. According to Skating Scores, his mean PCS is in the low 7s right now. At Nats he was getting mid to high 8s and some scores in the mid 9s. That alone is a huge difference - almost 20 points according to skating scores. I’m guessing GOE will show similar differences.

 

[Mathman]

Speaking of pewter medalists, Scott Hamilton claimed his in 1978 (following a bronze in 1977) and Brian Boiotano nabbed the pewter twice, 1981 and 1982.

But the U.S. pewter king is Matt Savoie who accomplished this feat 5 times (1999, 2000, 20002, 2004, and 2005). What about 2000, 2004 and 2006? Those were his three bronzes. By getting third in 2006 he (automatically) made the Olympic team, finishing 7th.

Savoie, like Jasdon Brown (Matt was also from thew Chicago area) Matt was reverredd as a "skater's skater," with his innovative blade work and moves in the field, together with exceptional musicality and artistic awareness.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[ladyjane]

Funny that you mention Matt Savoie @Mathman . I'm going now. I used to love watching him when I got the chance (which wasn't very often as we had no livestreams and such then) and I particularly remember his FS at the 2002 Worlds (some other US guy had decided to skip? I really don't know). Not that he ended very high (he was 12th) but it definitely wasn't a disaster. I also recall the Dutch commentator being almost lyrical in her praise for his skating (she also was that about Yagudin and Abt by the way) which was 'true to the sport'. This was of course still the 6.0 era. I never knew he was the pewter king!

 

[skatesofgold]

The approach should be different now. Under 6.0, someone who was a great artist a good technically was often untouchable. If you skated against, say, Michelle Kwan and she earned 5.9/5.9, you could do 5 quads and you still wouldn't beat her in a LP unless you matched that artistic score. Now, only the second mark is capped and you can surpass skaters with perfect PCS scores with more technical merit.

For whatever reason, I think it's more about the USFSA not willing to get behind younger skaters early in their careers than supporting skaters merely because they are artistic. Some of our top talents like Vincent and Alysa have fallen behind their peers internationally that they were on par with before, so I think more needs to be done to encourage and nurture young stand-outs.

That's such a weird thing to me because the USA did better in ladies/women when they supported their younger skaters. Michelle, Tara, Sarah, Sasha were all allowed senior opportunies as teenagers.

 

[moonvine]

It's funny how you're predictable now

I know that you know that i know it's a pewter medal, and that i call it chocolate because that's how 4th place is usually called. But you need to rant apparently.

You're free to value that 4th place, that PEWTER medal.

Is this just a skating thing? I’ve never heard a pewter medal called “chocolate.”