2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[lesnar001]

But that's not the point, the point is the USFS made the decision to use Karen before Alysa even had a chance to recover from covid. If the decision had been made afterwards when the USFS saw that maybe she wasn't in proper condition due to side effects or lost ice time, then fine, fair enough. But that's not what happened.

Besides, Alysa was asymptomatic and back in training a little over a week after nats, so while obviously not impossible, I doubt she was sicker than Brandon.

OK, I didn't know she was asymptomatic, so that answers one of my questions right there.
Doesn't that mean she wasn't ill at all? If she hadn't had to take a mandatory test she probably would have never even known she had it.
She definitely would have lost some training time due to isolation, but how would the USFSA have even known how "ready" she was?
So I also do not understand why the USFSA made the decision so early, unless there were other unknown factors.

 

[chuckm]

I would have preferred Mariah do the TE, as Mariah skated better in the GP (a 6th and a 4th with a 400.90 total score vs. Karen's 10th and 5th with a 377.41 total score). Also: Madeline Schizas beat Karen at SC, while Mariah beat Schizas at Rostelecom, 210.11 to 191.81, and that was with 3/2s in both SP and FS. Mariah has been doing just fine without a 3/3, while Karen has been < not only with her 3/3 but also with her loop.

And Mariah won the US championship---I would have thought that meant something. It's really disheartening to learn that Karen had the TE sewed up a month ago.

I was hoping Karen would at least skate a clean SP (if not a fully rotated one) but was dismayed when she fell on the loop. I dread the women's FS already.

 

[ManyCairns]

I would have preferred Mariah do the TE, as Mariah skated better in the GP (a 6th and a 4th with a 400.90 total score vs. Karen's 10th and 5th with a 377.41 total score). Also: Madeline Schizas beat Karen at SC, while Mariah beat Schizas at Rostelecom, 210.11 to 191.81, and that was with 3/2s in both SP and FS. Mariah has been doing just fine without a 3/3, while Karen has been < not only with her 3/3 but also with her loop.

And Mariah won the US championship---I would have thought that meant something. It's really disheartening to learn that Karen had the TE sewed up a month ago.

I was hoping Karen would at least skate a clean SP (if not a fully rotated one) but was dismayed when she fell on the loop. I dread the women's FS already.

I agree so strongly with most of this, but none of the US women are super solid, it just seems the timing of the decision leaves you thinking "what was the point of being national champ and having current momentum?"

However, I don't think we have to dread the free skate AT ALL -- I think Karen will be motivated by the SP outcome and really skate lights out in the long!

 

[saturdaysun]

I agree so strongly with most of this, but none of the US women are super solid, it just seems the timing of the decision leaves you thinking "what was the point of being national champ and having current momentum?"

However, I don't think we have to dread the free skate AT ALL -- I think Karen will be motivated by the SP outcome and really skate lights out in the long!

I mean they did the same to Cain/LeDuc (even with K/F having COVID!!) and to H/D in 2018. Being national champion was never a guarantee for the TE so not sure why people are acting like it's so egregious in this case in particular, especially since it was such a coin flip of a Nats.

I agree we don't have to dread the free skate. Karen will do her best, but the US is getting silver regardless. We were getting silver no matter which lady we sent.

 

[halulupu]

I'm sorry, but the scenario in this post, as if they chose Karen over a pool of available Kamilas, is hilarious.

Agree that result wise it most certainly it wouldn't make much difference. (Not assuming the worst: a strikt caller and karen being the reason for loosing silver medal). But on the individual level they took away a career defininig medal from mariah/alysa. And don't forget malinin. This nostalgic federation people living in the past still thinking michelle kwan is the GOAT of all ever live figure skater are exactly the reason why us figure skating is spiraling downward and getting more and more irrelevant. Time to stop sugar coating things. Time for a new beginning with new people

 

[saturdaysun]

Agree that result wise it most certainly it wouldn't make much difference. (Not assuming the worst: a strikt caller and karen being the reason for loosing silver medal). But on the individual level they took away a career defininig medal from mariah/alysa. And don't forget malinin. This nostalgic federation people living in the past still thinking michelle kwan is the GOAT of all ever live figure skater are exactly the reason why us figure skating is spiraling downward and getting more and more irrelevant. Time to stop sugar coating things. Time for a new beginning with new people

ummm what? so Karen should be denied her career-defining medal and that would somehow be ok? There was no way all 3 ladies were gonna get this team medal, you guys. Mariah got her long-awaited Nationals title and her first trip to the Olympics and yes Alysa got screwed, but the team can only make two substitutions so various skaters were always going to be left out, and among the three of them, Karen absolutely deserves a medal for all she's done for US ladies figure skating too.

 

[moonvine]

And the fact that they told Karen immediately that she was doing the event, but didn't bother to tell Mariah that she wasnt, makes it seem like they knew it was a dodgy decision.
Personally I dont much care either way between Karen or Mariah, but it seems clear that Karen was not chosen based on anything she did this season.
I feel very bad for Karen, I was so happy for her for a hot second after she stayed up on the combo...

It was very crummy of the US Fed to not tell Mariah…but surely they told Alyssa or she would have flown in earlier?

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Not choosing Alysa kind of makes sense, tho I might have done it anyways. She withdrew from Nationals without the opportunity to prove that changing coaches so late in the season wasnt a mistake, or that her head was in the game and her emotional state stable.
If the decision had to be made at Nationals for some reason, the only sensible choice would be Mariah, who won the event and did better on the GP.
And the fact that they told Karen immediately that she was doing the event, but didn't bother to tell Mariah that she wasnt, makes it seem like they knew it was a dodgy decision.
Personally I dont much care either way between Karen or Mariah, but it seems clear that Karen was not chosen based on anything she did this season.
I feel very bad for Karen, I was so happy for her for a hot second after she stayed up on the combo...

Alysa might have had the opportunity to prove those things had the fed given her the opportunity through either sending officials to observe her in the weeks following nationals or inviting her to the team practices like they did K/F before making this decision.

The “coaching change” excuse is so ridiculous. Skaters are people and no one should be held hostage. They have a right to leave a rink Or coach if they want to and shouldn’t have years of their accomplishments stripped from them because a federation assumes it’s going to cause problems. Fed shouldn’t be automatically deciding an athlete’s condition because of something like that when every person is different and some people would be just fine. They should be evaluating them on the ice.

Really they stated a criteria and then chose to ignore it a full month in advance, without even giving the athlete who the criteria favored a chance, in favor of NOT even the national champion but the runner up? (Who very easily could have been a bronze medalist - Karen’s highest FS score of the season is lower than Alysa’s average. She has NEVER scored above a 140 internationally where Alysa had a 144 from Lombardia with a failed 3A and a couple of < calls).

It really couldn’t be anymore blatantly unfair to Alysa regardless of how Karen skated.

 

[halulupu]

ummm what? so Karen should be denied her career-defining medal and that would somehow be ok? There was no way all 3 ladies were gonna get this team medal, you guys. Mariah got her long-awaited Nationals title and her first trip to the Olympics and yes Alysa got screwed, but the team can only make two substitutions so various skaters were always going to be left out, and among the three of them, Karen absolutely deserves a medal for all she's done for US ladies figure skating too.

Mariah is the national champion. She has the better scores. Yes, she beat karin in a very sportive way the whole season and now she got screwd. Its unfair and not sport. And why giving the men two slots and not the woman? Its all so rigged against a certain camp (aratyunan, he critisized tge fed harsly for their non sportive decision to leave malinin at home) in favor of anthother camp. Don't be blind

 

[lesnar001]

Agree that result wise it most certainly it wouldn't make much difference. (Not assuming the worst: a strikt caller and karen being the reason for loosing silver medal). But on the individual level they took away a career defininig medal from mariah/alysa. And don't forget malinin. This nostalgic federation people living in the past still thinking michelle kwan is the GOAT of all ever live figure skater are exactly the reason why us figure skating is spiraling downward and getting more and more irrelevant. Time to stop sugar coating things. Time for a new beginning with new people

I agree that the USFSA still seems somehow locked into the past.

But I do think Michelle Kwan is still a very strong choice of "GOAT", even absent an OGM. I admit that I don't think that longevity is the end-all be-all or the badge of honor some people ascribe to it. But Michelle was highly competitive in all the years she skated competitively. She won 5 World Titles spanning different parts of career. She wasn't just hanging around at the competitions all those years. Plus she had those 9 US titles, a lot of them won against skaters who were World and Olympic medalists themselves.

That being said, her jump layout back then wouldn't win now. And it's kind of telling that she had more success with 3-3's over 20 years ago than a lot of the current US Ladies.

 

[saturdaysun]

Mariah is the national champion. She has the better scores. Yes, she beat karin in a very sportive way the whole season and now she got screwd. Its unfair and not sport anymore

Mariah was gifted her gold at Nationals. If you listen to any commentary it was a toss-up that actually slightly favored Karen if judging were more objective. Karen beat her the last time they went head to head. Mariah could have just as easily been the one to underperform in the TE if she were the one chosen. Karen has Olympic experience, was denied the TE last time, she has a more stable 3-3 and she's the reason both Mariah and Alysa even get to go to the Olympics at all thanks to that extra spot she earned. She deserves to be here. "Not sport anymore" lol give me a break with the over-dramatics.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

As for “we don’t know for sure Alysa would have beaten Gubanova or Maddie”. We don’t but at least the odds would be in her favor.

TBF we don’t know for sure Nathan would have beaten Kagiyama either but I don’t think anyone would have said a word about choosing him. For good reason.

Alysa
67.72 Japan (beats Gubanova but not Schizas)
73.63 Canada (beats both)
70.86 Nebelhorn (beats both)
74.31 Lombardia (beats both)
71.42 Cranberry (beats both)


Karen
64.67 France (loses to both)
68.74 Canada (beats Gubanova but not Schizas)
67.50 Finlandia (loses to both),
58.01 Autumn Classic (loses to both)


So she skated in line with her season. Shocker.

How is this even a question? How is this something that should come down a month before without giving Alysa a chance?

 

[halulupu]

Mariah was gifted her gold at Nationals. If you listen to any commentary it was a toss-up that actually slightly favored Karen if judging were more objective. Karen beat her the last time they went head to head. Mariah could have just as easily been the one to underperform in the TE if she were the one chosen. Karen has Olympic experience, was denied the TE last time, she has a more stable 3-3 and she's the reason both Mariah and Alysa even get to go to the Olympics at all thanks to that extra spot she earned. She deserves to be here. "Not sport anymore" lol give me a break with the over-dramatics.

Based on what criteria karen was chosen than? Do mean the fed now wants to make up for the wrong scoring at nationals? They always claim all decisions are made based on objectibe criteria. Lol. And by the way if they had given all her unders, no way she would be in front of mariah. But yeah in a 6.0 area karen would be a fair national champion. However, this days are gone gone gone long gone

 

[Amei]

How do you know they didn't tell Mariah? Every single athlete including Nathan has been giving the same "no final decisions yet, but I'm ready just in case" quote to interviewers when asked about the team event before the USFS officially announced by their deadline. It's called being media-trained and not creating headlines, it's not some juicy insight into the fed's decision-making. And it's not clear at all that Karen was chosen for some nefarious reason. Your personal opinion may be that "the only sensible choice" was Mariah but this thread has literally dozens of pages of discussion about the pros and cons of each lady. Each of them have strengths and weaknesses and legitimate reasons to have been chosen or not. To say only Karen out of the three of them could been a biased choice not based on results is ridiculous and rude.

Well @drivingmissdaisy mentioned on Friday (see the quote below) that both Karen and Mariah stated that they hoped to be picked to do the team event... I don't know what interview it was, drivingmissdaisy would need to point to that, but based on that, its shady that Karen commented that she hoped to get picked when she's now saying she was told right after Nationals she was doing the team event. And if Mariah was aware, why would she be commenting about hoping to get picked?

Its a little strange that Karen was told right after Nationals, and they didn't give Alysa or at least their national champ, Mariah, an opportunity to prove that covid didn't negatively impact their ability to perform for the team event.

The whole situation reeks of shadiness.

Whichever woman is chosen, I hope the USFSA explains its decision since both Mariah and Karen stated this week that they hope to get picked. We've known in the past that the top athlete in each event was asked if they wanted to do one or both programs. Who is the top athlete for the women? Did any of them decline the chance to participate? Lots of questions.

 

[saturdaysun]

And if Mariah was aware, why would she be commenting about hoping to get picked?

Because it's just a standard "no comment" interview answer and intended to let the USFS officially announce their decision on their own time for marketing purposes, etc. I don't know how much clearer to make this. Every single athlete said the exact same thing. Karen said the same thing even though, as she says now, she was told a long time ago. Seeing as how Mariah was not on the same flight as the rest of the TE members, she definitely knew ahead of time too. This is not some conspiracy theory, it's basic public relations, jfc.

 

[Amei]

Because it's just a standard "no comment" interview answer and intended to let the USFS officially announce their decision on their own time for marketing purposes, etc. I don't know how much clearer to make this. Every single athlete said the exact same thing. Karen said the same thing even though, as she says now, she was told a long time ago. Seeing as how Mariah was not on the same flight as the rest of the TE members, she definitely knew ahead of time too. This is not some conspiracy theory, it's basic public relations, jfc.

If they were told to not disclose they should have said something else because fact is the 'hope to get picked' comment knowing they were picked or not picked is a flat out lie.

And it doesn't exactly address the shady fact that Karen knew right after Nationals that she was getting the team event, and the Alysa/Mariah both had covid argument is debunked because the Pairs team that's doing the team event WD from nationals due to being symptomatic and testing positive.

 

[bubblecherry]

As for “we don’t know for sure Alysa would have beaten Gubanova or Maddie”. We don’t but at least the odds would be in her favor.

TBF we don’t know for sure Nathan would have beaten Kagiyama either but I don’t think anyone would have said a word about choosing him. For good reason.

Alysa
67.72 Japan (beats Gubanova but not Schizas)
73.63 Canada (beats both)
70.86 Nebelhorn (beats both)
74.31 Lombardia (beats both)
71.42 Cranberry (beats both)


Karen
64.67 France (loses to both)
68.74 Canada (beats Gubanova but not Schizas)
67.50 Finlandia (loses to both),
58.01 Autumn Classic (loses to both)


So she skated in line with her season. Shocker.

How is this even a question? How is this something that should come down a month before without giving Alysa a chance?

Karen
74.40 2021 Worlds (beats both and Alysa’s SB)

we could do this all day. and some of you will

 

[MrMC18]

So, you are fine with bias but you have a problem if we point it out? That's an interesting ethical code to live by. Honestly, my primary interest in this is justice. The USFS release selection criteria and then they ignored it and selected Karen. That is not just to the athletes who knew about that criteria and tried to fulfill it, only to have someone else selected over them who hasn't met the criteria. I would be equally irritated if Karen was the one who was skipped over if she met the criteria but was snubbed for someone else.

As for the rest, ok. If you don't like speculation and discussion of scoring potential that's fine. But, perhaps don't visit this thread because that's what people do here. The skaters fan threads are where you can go to just find positivity about your favorites. Visit Karen's

You’ve made your point clear how Karen didn’t deserve to be at the team event. You keep repeating yourself and I don’t really get it.

And the speculation in this case is not only illogical, it’s being used to bring another skater down. We literally have NO IDEA how Mariah or Alysa would have fared in this team event because they never skated here. For you to say that “Alysa wouldn’t have lost to Gubanova or Schizas” is false because you don’t know what would’ve happened since Alysa wasn’t even there to begin with. Would you have been saying this had Karen performed well and placed third? No.

It is clear that we think very differently about this matter so there is no use in continuing this argument. I understand your irritation about this news of Karen being chosen to skate for the team event a month in advance. I don't understand a lot of statements you've made to express your irritation but that's ok. Our views are very different but I hope you can enjoy the rest of these Olympics as a fellow skating fan

 

[berry]

Do we know if Alysa has arrived in China?

 

[moonvine]

Do we know if Alysa has arrived in China?

I don’t know and it’s super weird and shady to me that no one (USFS) has said a word about her.