Exemptions from the Age Rule

[feraina]

There was a NORTH Korean skater at the Torino Olympics, Yong Suk KIM, who had placed second at the Karl Shaefer Olympic qualifying competition.

I got curious and looked up her Olympics SP:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...290&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

She's pretty good! Good speed, posture, and basic skating skills, if not particularly complex choreography/transitions. It's a shame that she under-rotated the 3Lz and 3F, since she's obviously not that bad if she was second in the Karl Schaefer qualifying competition. I bet she worked long and hard on that LP too, just such a shame that she didn't get to skate it at the Olympics. Even the British commentators thought that she deserved to qualify.

 

[Winnipeg]

The current age limit rule was passed at the 1996 ISU Congress, shortly after Tara Lipinski placed 15th at her first world championships. I doubt she was the primary reason.

Does anyone know the rationale for the age rule? Is it to protect from injury?

 

[RUKen]

Does anyone know the rationale for the age rule? Is it to protect from injury?

Yes, it supposedly protects the young skaters from injuries caused by preparing themselves to compete against senior skaters. Never mind that they instead compete in the Junior Grand Prix and Junior Worlds, and then for one year get to compete on the Senior Grand Prix even though they are still age-ineligible for (Senior) Worlds.

When the age rule was passed by the ISU, an exemption was allowed for skaters who had competed in the World Championships already (as Tara Lipinski had) or who had finished in the top three at Junior Worlds during that same season (as Sarah Hughes and others later would). A few years ago this exemption was eliminated.

The age threshold for senior international competitions has little influence on young skaters who are inclined to try to land certain jumps again and again and again during their practice sessions, in order to move up in the ranks, yet the age rule persists. Its biggest effect is not in preventing injuries, but in keeping the "face of the ISU" (the world champion) from being a pre-adolescent girl.

 

[gkelly]

When the age rule was passed by the ISU, an exemption was allowed for skaters who had competed in the World Championships already (as Tara Lipinski had) or who had finished in the top three at Junior Worlds during that same season (as Sarah Hughes and others later would). A few years ago this exemption was eliminated.

The last year of the junior world medal exemption was 2000, the year after Sarah Hughes made use of it. I don't think any under-age did make their world debut that year thanks to that exemption -- Sasha Cohen tried to but failed to medal at 2000 Junior Worlds.

As far as I know Evgenia Filonenko and Julia Obertas would be the only other skaters who got to Worlds or Europeans as 14- or 15-year-olds thanks solely to junior world medals. Evgeny Plushenko was able to compete there as a too-young 15-year-old because of his JW title and also because he had competed in other senior internationals, but not Worlds or Euros, before the rule change.

Eva-Marie Fitze competed at 1997 Worlds as a 14-year-old without having either been to Worlds/Euros before or having won a junior world medal, so for her the exemption must have been thanks to other senior events.

The age threshold for senior international competitions has little influence on young skaters who are inclined to try to land certain jumps again and again and again during their practice sessions, in order to move up in the ranks, yet the age rule persists. Its biggest effect is not in preventing injuries, but in keeping the "face of the ISU" (the world champion) from being a pre-adolescent girl.

Yeah, I think it really has more to do with the image of championship-level skating as a sport for full-grown rather than barely pubescent competitors and also to minimize the psychological/emotional stresses, more than physical ones, that younger teenagers or preteens would experience from competing at that level.

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for joining us, RUKen. Welcome to the forum. Post often, post long!

 

[jsteam4501s]

Just a reminder, folks. Tara's 15th birthday was June 10, 1997 - She was fully eligible for the '98 Olympics.

I am not in favor of any "special exemption" to the age rule - only the rule's complete elimination. Period.

 

[gkelly]

Just a reminder, folks. Tara's 15th birthday was June 10, 1997 - She was fully eligible for the '98 Olympics.

That's very true. I think the argument is that she would have been less likely to win the '98 Olympics if she had never competed at that level before. Which may or may not have been true. Oksana Baiul won the first Worlds she competed at, when she was too young by the current age limits, and that may or may not have made it easier for her to win the Olympics the following year when she was old enough.

And BTW, I think the rule was inspired more by Baiul's quick success and quick exit from eligible competition as by Lipinski's.

I am not in favor of any "special exemption" to the age rule - only the rule's complete elimination. Period.

When you say you're in favor of the rule's complete elimination, do you mean that you think there should be no minimum age for senior competition and a country that has one skater who can do double axels, even if that skater is 9 years old, should be able to send that skater to Worlds if they like?

Or would you want to lower the senior age limit across the board to 14 or 13 or 12 as of some date for all senior competitions instead of 15 by prev. July 1 for senior championships and 14 by prev. July 1 for other senior events?

 

[jsteam4501s]

gkelly: My rule of thumb has always been that if a young skater has enough talent to pass his or her country's "senior test" - the country's own test for competing in Senior events - that skater should be allowed to compete in any senior event. Do you recall that Michelle Kwan passed her "senior test" while Coach Carroll was out of town, and went to the '94 Olympics as first alternate? I guess she was only 13 at that time, right?
Also, Tara Lipinski went to '96 Worlds at age 13 because the USFSA denied Nicole Bobek an injury bye - and Tara finished 3rd at Nationals when Bobek couldn't skate the LP, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
In the American system, I guarantee you, there's no chance that a 9-year-old will ever do well enough to win a medal at Senior Nationals, let alone pass the U.S.'s "Senior Test". Kwan&Lipinski were "two in a million". And, I think we're not likely to see 9-year-olds from any other countries skate in the big events.

The Turkish girl in the 2006 Games - her name escapes me at the moment - was clearly no better than a multitude of American 13's and 14's currently active in our system - yet I enjoyed seeing Turkey have the chance to have a skater in the games.

IMO, the "Spirit" of the Olympic Games loses something without the presence of those delightful, prodigious youngsters who we know won't win medals, but who add so much to the event.

 

[heyang]

Yeah, I think it really has more to do with the image of championship-level skating as a sport for full-grown rather than barely pubescent competitors and also to minimize the psychological/emotional stresses, more than physical ones, that younger teenagers or preteens would experience from competing at that level.

I tend to agree. Caroline and Mirai are getting plenty of exposure by competing at Nationals and Grand Prix Events (in CZ's case). However, little press is given to GPF and Nationals is a bigger deal in the US than the rest of the world. They can compete at Nationals for themselves without having to bear the weight of competing at World's.

Also, many skaters (especially ladies) have faltered and/or failed due to puberty. Their body change is either to drastic or they develop other interests. For those with body issues, I think it would be more crushing to win at age 14 and then be 'washed up' at age 15. I can't even imagine what that might lead to in a person who does not have a good support system and not enough self-confidence. So, in a way, it's not just about protecting the child from athletic injury, but psychological effects, as well. I think Oksana's a classic example.

I don't believe the age restriction has been a hinderance to the guys. Very FEW males below age 18 have the strength to compete succesfully at the World level.

I"m also not aware if it impacting Dance.

I know it's impacted pairs. However, is it really fair for a 25 yr old guy to be throwing a 14 yr old in the air. There have been some teams that ended up failing when she reached puberty, as a result.

 

[jlmart]

I know here in Canada when the rule is discussed in the press Tracey Wainman is usually cited as an example of why such a rule is a good thing.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome, jlmart. Thanks for posting.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

You know, although it may be a shame for these young skaters, I highly support the age rule. I think that although these girls are technicly at their height, artisticly they are juniors. It's a big problem with women's skating. You get these young girls winning all the time, who technicly are great, but who artisticly are boring. I think that senior figure skating should stay senior, with skaters with enough maturity to give a performance that artisticly is a senior performance, especially during world and european championships. I mean, maybe if Mao had been able to go to the Olympics she would have got gold, but do we want an olympic champ who can do triple axels but with no artistic maturity, or do we want to see a breathtaking winning peformance, that everyone will remember because of the interpretation? The olympic title should be the result of many years competing at senior level, not the first title one gets.
This is why ice-dance champions are always artiscly great, because it takes them years to get where they get to, and they reach their technical AND aristic height are at the same age, which, unfortunately isn't the case for women's figure skating.

 

[attyfan]

The current age limit rule was passed at the 1996 ISU Congress, shortly after Tara Lipinski placed 15th at her first world championships. I doubt she was the primary reason.

Wasn't this around the time that Oksana Baiul was rumored to be having alcohol problems (even though her DUI was a year later)? That timing indicates that the rule was designed to protect young skaters from psychological problems arising out of "too much, too soon", rather than physicial injuries.

At least the idea of protection from psychological problems/exploitation would explain why younger skaters can compete in the GP series. The risk of being exploited, or getting too much, by winning the GPF are much less than that which will happen if a skater wins Worlds or Olys. (IMO)

 

[rain]

You know, although it may be a shame for these young skaters, I highly support the age rule. I think that although these girls are technicly at their height, artisticly they are juniors. It's a big problem with women's skating. You get these young girls winning all the time, who technicly are great, but who artisticly are boring. I think that senior figure skating should stay senior, with skaters with enough maturity to give a performance that artisticly is a senior performance, especially during world and european championships. I mean, maybe if Mao had been able to go to the Olympics she would have got gold, but do we want an olympic champ who can do triple axels but with no artistic maturity, or do we want to see a breathtaking winning peformance, that everyone will remember because of the interpretation? The olympic title should be the result of many years competing at senior level, not the first title one gets.
This is why ice-dance champions are always artiscly great, because it takes them years to get where they get to, and they reach their technical AND aristic height are at the same age, which, unfortunately isn't the case for women's figure skating.

I agree. I don't want to watch little girls figures skating, I want to watch ladies figure skating. Perhaps countries should not allow such young skaters to compete in seniors if it creates such a problem. I'm all for the age rule. I would also add that I think it totally unfair in the long run to put the pressure of a senior world championship or Olympics on such young girls.

On another note, the U.S. is hardly unique in finding itself in a bit of a slump in some disciplines — but it's had so many champions for so long (particularly in ladies) that people start chewing their nails. That doesn't present, to me, a convincing argument to change the rules.

 

[gkelly]

Wasn't this around the time that Oksana Baiul was rumored to be having alcohol problems (even though her DUI was a year later)?

Yeah, I'm sure Baiul was an example at the forefront of the thinking processes about restricting young skaters from the most stressful levels of competition.

 

[Ptichka]

While I agree that Olympic performances should be mature as opposed to a series of jumping passes, differentiation by age seems rather random. I mean, a 16-y.o. can have a very juniorish performance, and still win. Ideally, the rules should be written in a way to reward maturity in skating. I guess until somebody comes up with that magic cure, we're just stuck with the age rule as a surrogate.

 

[Mathman]

If the new rules hadn't come along, the last four Olympic champions might have been Oksana Baiul (16), Tara Lipinski (15), Sarah Hughes (16), and Mao Asada (15). That seems to be the age at which girl figure skaters (like gymnasts) hit their peak.

I guess the point of the age rules is that it is not fair for the older girls to have to compete against young athletes in their prime.

The alternative (a better one, IMHO) is to turn the Olympics over to the kids and let them romp to their gold medals. Then have some sort of professional skating at the senior level.

 

[bekalc]

If the new rules hadn't come along, the last four Olympic champions might have been Oksana Baiul (16), Tara Lipinski (15), Sarah Hughes (16), and Mao Asada (15). That seems to be the age at which girl figure skaters (like gymnasts) hit their peak.

I guess the point of the age rules is that it is not fair for the older girls to have to compete against young athletes in their prime.

The alternative (a better one, IMHO) is to turn the Olympics over to the kids and let them romp to their gold medals. Then have some sort of professional skating at the senior level.

Why Michelle Kwan was able to compete in her jumping prime, so was Irina Slutskaya. And Sasha would have been allowed to compete at 15 if she had medaled at Junior worlds. It's not like Irina and Michelle were never the jumping beans themselves... Arakawa was also allowed to compete in her jumping prime.

Basically Mao and Yu-na were denied opportunities that Michelle, Irina, Shiz, and Sasha had.

I see the point of the age limits for worlds. However, I think it's grossly unfair when it comes to the Olympics. The Olympics are every four years, what if an injury happens etc. And you cannot tell me that the Olympics would not have been better if Mao and Yu-na were there. Considering it was a splat fest.

 

[skatergirl45]

I still stick by the fact that we need the age rule. WIth Yu-Na and Mao at the Olympics, 2 deserving medal winners would have been knocked off the podium(sasha and Irina)

I remember Sasha saying something liike this aftder her free skate, I did not think I would medal today. THis medal is more about the journey over the last four years rather than just one skate tonight.

That sums up about how the Olympics are an athlete's dream, you have to reach some maturity level to compete in them.

I also remember Rena Inoue talking about her 1st OG when she was young. She said that at a young age, she could not understand the greatness and importantness of them but once she got older, she could understand.

That being said, Olympics come with maturity something a 15/16 year old champion does not have.

One last thought, while we have been speculating, there is no proof that Mao could have won she easily could have croaked. We will never know.........

 

[bekalc]

I still stick by the fact that we need the age rule. WIth Yu-Na and Mao at the Olympics, 2 deserving medal winners would have been knocked off the podium(sasha and Irina)

I remember Sasha saying something liike this aftder her free skate, I did not think I would medal today. THis medal is more about the journey over the last four years rather than just one skate tonight.

That sums up about how the Olympics are an athlete's dream, you have to reach some maturity level to compete in them.

I also remember Rena Inoue talking about her 1st OG when she was young. She said that at a young age, she could not understand the greatness and importantness of them but once she got older, she could understand.

That being said, Olympics come with maturity something a 15/16 year old champion does not have.

One last thought, while we have been speculating, there is no proof that Mao could have won she easily could have croaked. We will never know.........

I'm not saying Mao and Yu-na would have won. I question if they would have been given the PCS to beat Shizuka, even with Shizuka's 5 triple performance. There's also the question if perhaps Shiz would have gone for one of her 3/3's.

Still though I don't think Irina and Sasha were that deserving of Olympic medals. Do you really think it's great for the sport, that splat fest programs got Olympic medals??? It was one of the few times the public actually watches skating.

If Mao and Yu-na would have gone, the likelhood is that Shiz would have still won, and we would have had Yu-na and Mao on the medal stand. Which quite frankly would have been a nice introduction to the rest of the world, of the two future stars of the sport.

But I'm sorry as great as Irina and Sasha were , it was disagraceful that they ended up on the medal stand with those performances. Last time I checked an Olympic medal isn't a life time achievement award.

I'm sorry but what if Mao and Yu-na get injured, or aren't able to compete at the Vancover Olympics. Or, they aren't at the level they once where. Torino could have been their only shot.