Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Someone can make an argument that they prefer to watch doped up athletes but the problem is there are rules in place and other athletes are choosing not to partake in doping in order to comply with the rules. Therefore anyone who does not comply has an unfair advantage.

You can lobby for no rules but when rules exist they have to be enforced.

 

[DiamondDust]

Even if the test is taken last December, traces were still found so that means she took it prior to a competition no? Well not necessesarily now but this confirms she had taken the drug before. My question is why had she taken it before? Is it her coaching teams mistake or she herself is aware despite being a minor or was it her parents fault as well?

Nonetheless, this is still bad press for Kamila. I reckon if she wins there will be this issue attached to her.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Sorry, but I am not against drugs in pro sports.

You do realise that a lot of these banned substances are not just performance enhancing, but full-on dangerous? Steroid abuse can kill you, it certainly destroys your body.

Having such a laissez faire attitude to doping is totally messed up, especially if the person given drugs is a kid.

Using this medication when your heart is perfectly healthy could have side effects in years to come.

This is sport not Gladiatoral combat where the loser dies, or at least it shouldn't be.

 

[mrrice]

this is not about bureaucracy... it's about the sport. Forget even about politics though it's difficult considering the precedents with ROC.

How do you think the world is looking at the sport now ?? : you wanna be great, you need to take these drugs...

this is exactly WHY concrete action needs to be taken, otherwise it is sending the message that it is accepted and acceptable.

If I were a parent, I would not want my child to be an elite athlete if it means that they will need to take drugs or if it means that they will compete with people who have an unfair medical advantage. And please, let me remain suspicious about the idea that a 15 year old elite athlete needs any kind of angina medication...

This last paragraph is sad because you'd think that would be the case. Unfortunately, in many cases it's not. I've said before that I've seen parents smack food out of a dancers. There is a look that athletes have when they're not eating but, PEDs are much harder to spot because dancers and skaters are usually quite thin. That's why you have to test for them.

Yeah., one day she is all over the media as this "sensational 15 y.o. gold medalist from Russia", the very next day she becomes the face of a doping scandal...
What a timing...

I know I sound like a politician but, I Blame the media. On both sides. I blame whoever is trying to make light of this situation and I blame the other side for trying to make Kamila the "Face" of doping. It's one thing for them to talk about her country, it's another to constantly plaster her face next to this scandal.

 

[Tomadeur]

If this controversy was about an American figure skater or ANY other country than a Russian (or Chinese) skater, there is no question in my mind that a quick decision would have been made by the IOC to disqualify and ban them from competition, whether adult or Protected Athlete. And in the case of a US skater, the USOC would have gone along with it, without a fuss.

Russia has been treated with kid gloves by the IOC since even before Sochi, and continues to this day. That's the only reason that we have had this kind of delay. Everyone's working overtime to get Russia off the hook as much as possible. Much of the rest of the world took the position that the STATE-SPONSORED DOPING that Russia did, should have earned the entire Russian athlete contingent a boot out of Olympics for the next 8-10 years.

The IOC is indeed reaping what it has sown.

The first part is only what if so I won't comment on that.

However, the IOC has tried to be very strict against Russia, but not always very wisely, so that a good part of the sanctions and penalties had to be withdrawn after judgments of the CAS.

The IOC is not responsible for positive doping samples that become known during the Olympic Games, but the ITA. An independent organization that was created after the doping scandal in Russia. Who spreads conspiracy theories about the work of the ITA has, in my view, paid little attention to the subject of anti-doping.

Just let them do their work, we will know the results soon enough.

 

[4everchan]

also, let's not imply the other athletes are less deserving.. they work just as hard, and they follow the rules.

 

[alexocfp]

You may not be. But that's not the point. The fact remains that certain substances are banned by governing bodies.

Every competitor is subject to the same restrictions on banned medication. It doesn't matter if orange juice and apple pie are banned. If they are banned, and I am a serious athlete, I do not drink orange juice and I do not eat apple pie.

I have no idea what happened or did not, but it is the very essence of sport that everyone abides by the same rules. Last place finishers and gold medalists. Whether or not they agree with them.

Your well written response is one way to look at it for sure. And I respect that. Warning: there is a but coming.

The essence of sports, for me, is winning. That’s first and foremost for me. And the people that are real good also believe this. Otherwise they wouldn’t spend money beating the drug tests or getting shady TEU’s.

We just have to deal with reality. As long as there is money to be made too, there will be people willing to take it to the next step. WADA and the rest of them, just force athletes to take drug usage to the underground making it more dangerous.

I love MMA for instance. It’s naive of me to think you can fight for a living and just take legal medicines.

American football is the number 1 sport in the USA. You think anyone can do it at that level without some help? I played low level out in the park with my friends when I was a kid and the bruises after a game lasted days.

And it’s easy for me to say I would never do it since I’m nowhere near a high caliber athlete, but if drugs were the difference between barely being in a league or tens and even hundreds of millions of dollars, or extending my career a few years, and my family can be financially secure, I can’t sit here and in good conscience say I would not consider it.

 

[Demandred]

If this controversy was about an American figure skater or ANY other country than a Russian (or Chinese) skater, there is no question in my mind that a quick decision would have been made by the IOC to disqualify and ban them from competition, whether adult or Protected Athlete. And the USOC would have gone along with it, without a fuss.

Depends on the skater. If it had been a big star and money maker for the IOC like Nathan or Hanyu, no way in hell they would have been disqualified. Too much money at stake. NBC and other major broadcasters has invested billions in the Olympics and the last thing is they would want is something like this to destroy their ratings. And with the IOC, it's always about the money first.

 

[noskates]

I think that whether or not the skater was good, bad or ugly, anything regarding a doping scandal, especially since Russia was already on thin ice (pardon the pun) would be big media news. I also don't think this has anything to do with nationalism or favoritism or pandering to one country over another. Doping in sports is big news, no matter what the sport is. IF Kami is the so-called culprit, it isn't a matter of who gave her the drug or how old she is - a rule has been broken and needs some sort of restitution. The skater's age may be taken into consideration but something has to result from this to maintain whatever integrity the sport still has. I agree with El, it's so dang sad that the figure skating competition at this Olympics will be besmirched by this turn of events. It's hard enough to find support for figure skating these days with less broadcasting in the media and diminishing crowds at competitions internationally and the shows. No matter who did it, why they did it, when they did it, or even IF they did it - this is what Beijing 2022 figure skating will be remembered for.

But I also think that the majority of the posters on this board - a very large majority of the posters - love this sport and love individual skaters regardless of their nationality. I'm American but check out my avatar!!! My top 5 favorite skaters of all time only include 1 American! And I don't think that's unusual.

 

[alexocfp]

You do realise that a lot of these banned substances are not just performance enhancing, but full-on dangerous? Steroid abuse can kill you, it certainly destroys your body.

Having such a laissez faire attitude to doping is totally messed up, especially if the person given drugs is a kid.

Using this medication when your heart is perfectly healthy could have side effects in years to come.

This is sport not Gladiatoral combat where the loser dies, or at least it shouldn't be.

I do know they are dangerous.

But wada and the doping agencies make you have to go underground, and rely on sketchy doctors and labs.

It’s like any recreational drug policy. My pro legalization of recreational drugs seeps into my sports.

But, to be clear, I’m not talking about kids taking them, I’m talking about adults making a decision to do so. That’s why this sports drug scene needs to come out of the underground.

And maybe I’m totally messed up, so I won’t argue with you there. Haha

 

[alexocfp]

Depends on the skater. If it had been a big star and money maker for the IOC like Nathan or Hanyu, no way in hell they would have been disqualified. Too much money at stake. NBC and other major broadcasters has invested billions in the Olympics and the last thing is they would want is something like this to destroy their ratings. And with the IOC, it's always about the money first.

That’s why this is all political.

Andre Agassi admitted in his book that they covered up a drug test for him so he wouldn’t be suspended.

And the 1988 Olympics game fiasco for never forgot. Carl Lewis had his positives hordes and explained away. That was when I realized what a sham it was.

Look, every country wants the other country punished but tries to protest their own. Nobody really cares about “clean” sport, which is just a word that means nothing.

 

[NAOTMAA]

As ridiculous and unbelievable as if might sound I just think it's a case of real extreme stupidity for not disclosing the medication and that's all, nothing nefarious. Eteri has been a high profile coach since 2014 and had more skaters under her watch then any other in the same time period. This is the first time this has happened. There is no history to suggest this type of cheating. Questionable health diets and training methods yes, but not this.

All Eteri girls, all Russian girls, have been tested for years and no positive tests like this. Why would they try and cheat now and with Kamila and Kamila alone when there are so many other Russians who can easily dominate and crush everyone? It makes no sense.

 

[alexocfp]

Whatever your opinion happens to be, rules are rules, and you are not in a position to make them. This has nothing to do with Kamila's talent or her dedication to hard work. This has to do with someone giving her a drug banned for athletes, and her getting caught with it in her system.

I love Kamila and hope this is all a terrible mistake, but if it is not, she then becomes a victim of the adults around her, and this would be a horrible, horrible shame.

I don’t make the rules but to get satisfaction when the tests are beaten and/or the lawyers for the athletes take these drugs bureaucrat to the cleaners on court.

And Kamila could have just accidentally digested it via a tainted supplement. These supplement companies put undocumented ingredients in their stuff all the time.

 

[skatespin]

Unfortunately for Kamila, who is a victim here too, this seems like a black and white issue if it is true. If there is evidence that she had a banned drug in her system in December and that wasn't reported, that is a serious violation and she should not be allowed to compete at this Olympics and the points she earned in the team event would need to be deducted (at the very least). The consequences could get even worse, this is just the minimum.

 

[skatespin]

One thing I keep thinking about is that this was from a test done in December.

Why wasn't this reported or dealt with back then? It seems like there was a cover up done, which would also be a violation of rules. If it was covered up it also would suggest guilt because if there was an innocent/unknown reason why that drug was found in her system why not deal with it at the time it happened?

 

[Alex Fedorov]

If this controversy was about an American figure skater or ANY other country than a Russian (or Chinese) skater, there is no question in my mind that a quick decision would have been made by the IOC to disqualify and ban them from competition, whether adult or Protected Athlete. And in the case of a US skater, the USOC would have gone along with it, without a fuss.

Russia has been treated with kid gloves by the IOC since even before Sochi, and continues to this day. That's the only reason that we have had this kind of delay. Everyone's working overtime to get Russia off the hook as much as possible. Much of the rest of the world took the position that the STATE-SPONSORED DOPING that Russia did, should have earned the entire Russian athlete contingent a boot out of Olympics for the next 8-10 years.

The IOC is indeed reaping what it has sown.

Sorry, but in this case you are operating with myths.

First myth: "Russia has been treated with kid gloves by the IOC since even before Sochi, and continues to this day.". This is very easy to disprove. On February 18, 2018, it was reported that Russian curler Krushelnitsky may have had meldonium in his sample. This information was confirmed the very next day. The athlete was stripped of the bronze medal. Where is the "kid gloves" here?

I don't know why doping is needed in curling, and this episode looks at least dubious to me. Nevertheless, as you can see for yourself, doping was discovered, officially announced, and the medal was taken away. No sign of special treatment from the IOC. A special attitude, as today, was on the part of American journalists, who even then demanded the expulsion of Russian athletes from the Olympics - this episode alone was enough for them.

In addition, let me remind you that it was the IOC that decided to deprive Russian athletes of 11 medals after the Sochi Olympics. It was possible to return 9 medals only after a long trial, and the IOC resisted to the last and tried not to return these medals.

The second myth is the notorious "government doping". This is based on the testimony of exactly one person, whose main goal was to obtain political asylum in the United States. And if he told that Putin personally changed the urine of athletes to his own, I would not be surprised at all. There is a lot of political propaganda in this whole story, and very little truth.

At the same time, I see that the IOC is showing a "special attitude" to another country. To the one that received approximately 90% of all permits for the use of prohibited substances.

 

[msteach3]

I don’t make the rules but to get satisfaction when the tests are beaten and/or the lawyers for the athletes take these drugs bureaucrat to the cleaners on court.

And Kamila could have just accidentally digested it via a tainted supplement. These supplement companies put undocumented ingredients in their stuff all the time.

Wow...

 

[cisum88note]

This last paragraph is sad because you'd think that would be the case. Unfortunately, in many cases it's not. I've said before that I've seen parents smack food out of a dancers. There is a look that athletes have when they're not eating but, PEDs are much harder to spot because dancers and skaters are usually quite thin. That's why you have to test for yhem

I know I sound like a politician but, I Blame the media. On both sides. I blame whoever is trying to make light of this situation and I blame the other side for trying to make Kamila the "Face" of doping. It's one thing for them to talk about her country, it's another to constantly plaster her face next to this scandal.

"The face of doping"? Russia did that to themselves when they instituted a state-sponsored, systemic doping system that invalidated at least a proven 15 (Fifteen!) medals from Sochi. The fact that they are competing at all - much less with no repercussions other than slapping an olympic symbol on a flag for 2 years- is insane.

So when a very legitimate doping claim arises about teenagers who are already participating in that state-sponsored doping system that was suspended from the Olympics (but not) and with a coach who has questionable methods, at best, even according to her former champion skaters, articles stating the current and past facts and pictures is the least sensational part about this entire fiasco.

 

[cisum88note]

I don’t make the rules but to get satisfaction when the tests are beaten and/or the lawyers for the athletes take these drugs bureaucrat to the cleaners on court.

And Kamila could have just accidentally digested it via a tainted supplement. These supplement companies put undocumented ingredients in their stuff all the time.

This medication isn't one that is put in a supplement, ever, because it has severe health consequences.

If there are so many unregulated tainted supplements floating around Russia, I find it extremely curious that a coaching system that forbade competitors from drinking too much water before their olympic competition would not be regulating exactly what is going into their skaters' bodies.

Regardless, there are multiple cases of accidental ingestion of banned substances in skiing, track and field, skating, distance-running. It doesn't matter. The athlete faces the consequence. They are the sport participant who broke the rules.

 

[alexocfp]

Let me disagree . He was the greatest doped Tour de France competitor ever, among a slew of doped competitors.
Perhaps some cyclists were not doped. But who knows and who remembers their names since they were overshadowed by a cheater?
Anyway, it's a little bit off topic.
In fact, either you say: "let the show begin". Doesn't matter whether anyone is doped, provided there are quads and transitions and so on.
Or you think the competition may be very interesting even if there are only triples, provided there is a healthy rivalry (I don't know how old you are but for instance why do we still remember the battle of Carmens? because there was a battle, not because there were (some double) jumps).
As far as I am concerned, as soon as you say that doping is not permitted (which is only a choice), you have to disqualify any cheater, even the youngest, not because (s)he is guilty, but because the next competitor is not doped (or is deemed to be clean until proven doped as well).
We'll see...

I am upfront. I want to see the Kamila, Anna, Japanese champion and bundle of sunshine Kaori, Best non Russian European Loena, and Olga Mikutina. And I’m curious to see if the Alyssa coaching change had an effect or if Sasha can finally land the 5 quads.

I also like Kamila destroying her competition, taking away their will to compete, and beating heads by 80, 100, and 120 points.

Don’t have an opinion about anyone else. But good luck to all of them.

And let’s not pretend this isn’t the case: a lot of her competitors (and fans of said competitors that she has been thrashing) are using anti doping as a cover because they don’t want to compete with her since it makes their jobs easier.