Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[zanadude]

I personally think that 15 is too young to be competing at the Olympics. The minimum age should be raised.

After this, I agree. I used to think more simply, that all athletes should be allowed to compete based solely on ability, regardless of age. But, at least in this sport, it seems that some adults are not to be trusted to let this be about nothing but pure competition.

So now I think that everyone participating needs to be old enough to take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[solani]

Regarding contaminated supplements in general - athletes and coaches have to make sure, that the supplements they buy are not contaminated. If you order your f.e. collagen supply from a shady website, you did insufficient due diligence.
There are even companies who make supplements guaranteed contamination free for professional athletes.

I think we can also claim that she has no problems with her heart. We would know if she had a TUE by now.

And the positive test seems to be from Europeans (the first Info was that the sample was taken in December). That makes the timeline believable. We shouldn't forget that those analysis take time and ressources.

Regarding Valieva beeing a senior athlete and beeing treated as such ... I get the point but that's too easy.

Regarding the possible explanations ... this could get interesting. There could be a granny with heart problems who stores her medication in a drawer together with over the counter painkillers .. and sometimes you just mix things up when you have a bad headache ... or when you're old and want to help your grandaughter.
I don't want to make fun of this situation. But I expect something grotesque to protect those who are really in command and responsible.

Anyway, the first "scandal", Katsalapov probably enjoying a joint was much better. And marijuana is only prohibited in competition as far as I know, so this would'nt have been an issue at all and he's in pain, so this did make sense. But that was already the propaganda machine. They probably thought that the info regarding Valieva could be hushed up.
I think they knew before the team event.

 

[Pereiro]

And btw, if someone really want to discuss some weird conspiracy theories here - then discuss the fact, that this Sweden laboratory was partially suspended by WADA two years ago - link.

See how this easy - if you believe in some Russian conspiracy, Russians can easily believe in some anti-Russian conspiracy.

 

[skated011]

you should check out Zanadude's post which was the one I was responding to, specifying a former case
of an athletes test showing this substance in her system, which was eventually ruled to be the cause of
a contaminated product, but the athlete still had to face a cooling period of 8 months with her
competition results being annulled, so basically she was cleared of wrong doing but the substances
actually being in her system could not be met with zero consequence.

they nullified her results from the start

Regarding contaminated supplements in general - athletes and coaches have to make sure, that the supplements they buy are not contaminated. If you order your f.e. collagen supply from a shady website, you did insufficient due diligence.
There are even companies who make supplements guaranteed contamination free for professional athletes.

I think we can also claim that she has no problems with her heart. We would know if she had a TUE by now.

And the positive test seems to be from Europeans (the first Info was that the sample was taken in December). That makes the timeline believable. We shouldn't forget that those analysis take time and ressources.

Regarding Valieva beeing a senior athlete and beeing treated as such ... I get the point but that's too easy.

Regarding the possible explanations ... this could get interesting. There could be a granny with heart problems who stores her medication in a drawer together with over the counter painkillers .. and sometimes you just mix things up when you have a bad headache ... or when you're old and want to help your grandaughter.
I don't want to make fun of this situation. But I expect something grotesque to protect those who are really in command and responsible.

Anyway, the first "scandal", Katsalapov probably enjoying a joint was much better. And marijuana is only prohibited in competition as far as I know, so this would'nt have been an issue at all and he's in pain, so this did make sense. But that was already the propaganda machine. They probably thought that the info regarding Valieva could be hushed up.
I think they knew before the team event.

the faulty result was from Russian nationals not Europeans.

 

[Vemvane]

What kind of a contamined product can contain traces of a serious _cardiac_ medicine?
I think it is ruled out.

To start very broadly, I do know of instances of accidental contamination with cardiovascular drugs. I am going to be predictable and cite an equestrian example here, because of course, but some years ago, there was a rash of positives for synephrine, which is a banned substance. To quote from the FEI's final decision on one of the instances, synephrine is "a stimulant that causes vasoconstriction, increases heart rate and is used as a weight loss aid in humans" (source). [Note that the minors involved have their names blacked out.]

It turned out that synephrine is a naturally-occurring alkaloid in plants, including teff (Eragrostis teff), a type of grass that is widely fed to horses, as it is relatively low in sugars but relatively high in protein, and consequently is much healthier for horses than, say, oat hay or barley hay. It also turned out that teff has naturally higher levels of synephrine, and that the horses that tested positive for the cardiovascular stimulant had all received teff hay. It puts people in a bit of a pickle, because the levels of synephrine in this commonly supplied hay are not consistent, so one would have to test every delivery of teff hay for synephrine if competing nationally or internationally. The FEI can't just ban teff either, as it is an important source of equine roughage in many parts of the world, so I don't know exactly what they're going to do - probably sit on their hands and do nothing, and keep suspending people who feed teff as a source of roughage, and then going "Oops, our bad, it was teff", after a year or so of reviewing the case.

So it is possible for odd and accidental contaminations to occur.

As for trimetazidine, it is possible for it to be detected when no intentional doping took place. I am attaching links to the abstracts of two papers on this issue.

The first, from 2015, points out that trimetazidine is a metabolite of the permitted drug lomerizine, so positive results for trimetazidine must be treated carefully: Analytical detection of trimetazidine produced by metabolic conversion of lomerizine in doping control analysis.

The second paper, from 2018, looks at the metabolites of lomerizine, and notes that in cases of a positive test result for trimetazidine, the co-occurrence of a metabolite bis-(4-fluorophenyl)-methypiperazine is indicative of lomerizine use. On the other hand, if this specific metabolite is absent, but trimetazidine is present, then lomerizine is not the source of the trimetazidine. Abstract here: Lomerizine, trimetazidine and bis-(4-fluorophenyl)-methylpiperazine in human urine after oral administration of lomerizine dihydrochloride. So there are ways to distinguish between the use of the permitted and the banned substances.

Whether the trimetazidine positive in this case was found with or without the metabolite, I don't know, nor am I going to hazard a guess on the likelihood of either option. I've put my foot in this already, by posting news that was unconfirmed and subsequently retracted, and this may be more of the same, even though I'm trying very hard to stick to facts!

 

[solani]

Just an FYI that IOC do have their own independent tests for the Olympics, and as far as I'm aware every figure skater passed those. What we're talking about relates to tests taken for Russian Nationals which obviously are run by Russian officials. That was where a test was failed.

If it was from Russian Nationals, then the whole ROC team is in danger. Because then the testing/reporting process is still compromised inside of Russia.

 

[Pereiro]

If it was from Russian Nationals, then the whole ROC team is in danger. Because then the testing/reporting process is still compromised inside of Russia.

How? They take tests and submit them to WADA for analyze. They don't work with tests by themselves.

 

[Mista Ekko]

they nullified her results from the start

Exactly. Because you can't have banned substances in your system and still compete, no
matter how they got into your system, so there's no point in waiting to figure out wether
to nullify the result or not until they figure out if the there's any fault to the athlete, the results
will remain annulled, but the athlete might be excused after inquiry.

I remember Berezhnaya\Sikharulidze sitting out the 2000 season and losing their European title
that year exactly in this fashion.

 

[skated011]

If it was from Russian Nationals, then the whole ROC team is in danger. Because then the testing/reporting process is still compromised inside of Russia.

ROC don't make tests they send it to wada accredited labs

 

[skated011]

Exactly, because you can't have banned substances in your system and still compete, no
matter how they got into your system, so there's no point in waiting to figure out wether
to nullify the result or not until you figure out if the there's any fault to the athlete, the results
will remain annulled.

I remember Berezhnaya\Sikharulidze sitting out the 2000 season and losing their European title
that year exactly in this fashion.

that post was imcomplete, what I mean your result will be nuluffied from the date of getting the positive but certain legal limits range from a month to a provision warning can still be ruled. Like I said it will be all up to the ruling.

 

[doreen95]

To start very broadly, I do know of instances of accidental contamination with cardiovascular drugs. I am going to be predictable and cite an equestrian example here, because of course, but some years ago, there was a rash of positives for synephrine, which is a banned substance. To quote from the FEI's final decision on one of the instances, synephrine is "a stimulant that causes vasoconstriction, increases heart rate and is used as a weight loss aid in humans" (source). [Note that the minors involved have their names blacked out.]

It turned out that synephrine is a naturally-occurring alkaloid in plants, including teff (Eragrostis teff), a type of grass that is widely fed to horses, as it is relatively low in sugars but relatively high in protein, and consequently is much healthier for horses than, say, oat hay or barley hay. It also turned out that teff has naturally higher levels of synephrine, and that the horses that tested positive for the cardiovascular stimulant had all received teff hay. It puts people in a bit of a pickle, because the levels of synephrine in this commonly supplied hay are not consistent, so one would have to test every delivery of teff hay for synephrine if competing nationally or internationally. The FEI can't just ban teff either, as it is an important source of equine roughage in many parts of the world, so I don't know exactly what they're going to do - probably sit on their hands and do nothing, and keep suspending people who feed teff as a source of roughage, and then going "Oops, our bad, it was teff", after a year or so of reviewing the case.

So it is possible for odd and accidental contaminations to occur.

As for trimetazidine, it is possible for it to be detected when no intentional doping took place. I am attaching links to the abstracts of two papers on this issue.

The first, from 2015, points out that trimetazidine is a metabolite of the permitted drug lomerizine, so positive results for trimetazidine must be treated carefully: Analytical detection of trimetazidine produced by metabolic conversion of lomerizine in doping control analysis.

The second paper, from 2018, looks at the metabolites of lomerizine, and notes that in cases of a positive test result for trimetazidine, the co-occurrence of a metabolite bis-(4-fluorophenyl)-methypiperazine is indicative of lomerizine use. On the other hand, if this specific metabolite is absent, but trimetazidine is present, then lomerizine is not the source of the trimetazidine. Abstract here: Lomerizine, trimetazidine and bis-(4-fluorophenyl)-methylpiperazine in human urine after oral administration of lomerizine dihydrochloride. So there are ways to distinguish between the use of the permitted and the banned substances.

Whether the trimetazidine positive in this case was found with or without the metabolite, I don't know, nor am I going to hazard a guess on the likelihood of either option. I've put my foot in this already, by posting news that was unconfirmed and subsequently retracted, and this may be more of the same, even though I'm trying very hard to stick to facts!

Thank you very much! That makes sense.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

Just an FYI that IOC do have their own independent tests for the Olympics, and as far as I'm aware every figure skater passed those. What we're talking about relates to tests taken for Russian Nationals which obviously are run by Russian officials. That was where a test was failed.

Yes, I appreciate that, but her positive sample was collected on 25 Dec, less than two months before the Olympics. WADA should have tested it as soon as they received it and Kamila should not have even been allowed to participate in the Olympics. What was the point of providing a sample in December if it wasn’t tested until after the Team Competition? Unless I’m not understanding something?

 

[skated011]

Yes, I appreciate that, but her positive sample was collected on 25 Dec, less than two months before the Olympics. WADA should have tested it as soon as they received it and Kamila should not have even been allowed to participate in the Olympics. What was the point of providing a sample in December if it wasn’t tested until after the Team Competition? Unless I’m not understanding something?

agreed. the timing is suspect.

 

[Draculus]

Their problems began with the leak of this information to the media.

They postpone medal ceremony, you cannot hide it. So leak itself is not the root cause.

 

[Autumn Leaves]

If it was from Russian Nationals, then the whole ROC team is in danger. Because then the testing/reporting process is still compromised inside of Russia.

You aren’t actually reading anything, are you? The samples taken at Nationals were sent to a WADA lab in Sweden. The results came back on Feb 8, after the team event. (Why it took so long is perplexing). Obviously, only Kamila’s test is positive. How that speaks about the testing process in Russia, when the samples were sent to and analysed in Sweden’s lab? How that jeopardises the ROC team, when the samples of the other skaters from the team event are clean?

 

[skated011]

They postpone medal ceremony, you cannot hide it. So leak itself is not the root cause.

it all started with fake rumors from coronavirus, the marijuana then katsalapov

 

[Mista Ekko]

terrible timing, considering the vast pool of potential (and probable) medal contenders Russia has to choose from
for the single events, and an overall superiority in the team event even without relying on this specific contender,
that this jeopardises the result of an entire team.

 

[skated011]

Fair. So the question is now, why would the Russian federation decide to go ahead anyways with this athlete
and take their chances, as we all know that they are heavily scrutinised on doping, and also that they have
a vast pool of potential (and probable) medal contenders to choose from for the single events, and an
overall superiority in the team event even without relying on this specific contender, why would they jeopardise
the result of an entire team?

they may had to take chance as Kamila was destined to be the star of whole ogm 2022. name other athletes other countries will know. I can't and I'm not even Russian

 

[radkat]

Some of y'all sound like you are competing at the Olympics for the state of denial

 

[flanker]

So to clarify, because we're slightly hijacking the thread , to my claim that it would be a dangerous
precedent to let an athlete who tested positive for a banned substance (even if without their knowledge)
compete with no substantial cooling period, you disagree?

To that claim my response is that the only relevant thing is a proven guilt. There is no proof you take something=you are innocent. Any lawyer (and honestly any reasonable person) can't say different and any law can be based on a different principle.