Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[silveruskate]

I don't think that's true anymore. Serena Williams has spoken about how she was shocked when the testers showed up on her sisters doorstep while she was visiting. It was not Venus who also plays, this was a different sister and she lived in California while Serena lives in Florida. They are ruthless

She must give an hour at least for every day. Including if she's travelling somewhere. I mean she did inform them she would be at her sister's house from what you said. But sure she would be surprised that they actually decided to make the trip when it isn't even close to her home. Maybe the sister's house is close to a testing facility in California and the tester wanted to take the chance to meet her.

 

[Amei]

Thank you for the link! Right now, they're inquiring how many roast duck dishes the athletes are eating. Not exactly what I was imagining

They are quite comical the talk about weather, number of viewers, completely trolling the people actually watching this when they know that no one really cares about this stuff, they are tuning in for 1 thing. I understand that there are legalities that prohibit them from saying a lot. Poor Mark is probably getting hammered before and after these things.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

Honestly seeing this kind of meaningless comments is what causes so much hate. IOC please don't search anymore, in this researchers forum you have all the answers you need, there is a regime in TT so you have to eliminate all Russian figure skating team. Better yet, ISU don't let any Russian girls compete again because anyone who can land a quad or 3A is doping, doesn't matter if she's not from TT school.

Sorry let me just enter into your world where 15 year olds aquire their own PEDs? I think I’ve left plenty of room for doubt regarding the accuracy of the test results, and I haven’t laid any such claims. I’m just being realistic about my views, should we get the confirmation she has been given PEDs by her team. I think it’s pretty reasonable given the nature of this sport to assume if one member of the team (TT not ROC) is doing it, then it’s likely being administered to all the girls whether they know it or not. Why assume all Russian girls btw? It’s not like team Tutberidze are the only team in Russia? If the team (TT not ROC) are at fault, then they, not just Kamila, must be held accountable.

 

[readernick]

First, I don't think it's only possible for skaters to land quads if they are doping. Rika did it. Tuk did it. Other young Russian skaters are landing them. A few young Japanese and American skaters are landing them. I also don't think you can blame Rika's injury on quads. She went to Worlds / WTT with a hurt leg which led her to jump in
way that hurt her back. I'm a huge Rika fan but that was the fault of her own choices and her team's choices.

However, I think the real advantage this drug provides is consistency which is what has really separated TT from the other skaters. When you can practice more, you can become more consistent. That's the primary thing that as separated TT from competitors. And, yes, despite the few regular posters here who will gaslight every situation involving this team, it's pretty obvious clear that if this drug was given to Valieva ( the most naturally talented of the group) it would also be given to its other members. The doctor probably just miscalculated the dosage for Valieva and it hadn't cleared her system yet. This may not have mattered if RUSADA had still been able to test its own samples, but they couldn't and so the result couldn't be covered up. ( RUSADA fired its previous head who was trying to clean things up, it's clear they don't want to change)

 

[silveruskate]

It's funny, of all these competitions, I 100% think the RusNats result will NOT be voided. That's basically Russia admitting they cheated. Valieva can be handed anywhere from a slap on the wrist to 2 years for testing positive due to her protected person status.

Valieva will be 16 in 2 months. I really doubt CAS will be swayed by that difference in age. It's sort of ridiculous... right now Valieva is morally ignorant but in two months she will magically be morally responsible for anything in her body. IMO, if you're old enough to compete in the adult athletic division (seniors) you should be considered an adult with matters like these.

I'm reminded of Carolina Kostner who was banned for 18 months for lying about her boyfriend doping; she never touched the medications. Should nothing happen to Kamila, it's basically sending the message that you will get away with doping up athletes below 16.

It isn't about what you think though. The rules clearly state she is a Protected Person and the rules will and should apply to her as a Protected Person.

About Carolina, I consider that to be quite grevious myself.

 

[vorravorra]

Exactly. Why would they give PEDs to a 15 year old and not the other two older athletes, who are both recovering from injury too, (assuming the results are correct and there hasn’t been some terrible mix up or mistake)? If Kamila is removed from the Olympics, then her team need to be removed from the Olympics. Don’t get me wrong I love both Sasha and Anna, but it’s not reasonable for us to assume Kamila is taking PEDs during training and they are not. They literally have the same coaches and doctors.Testing negative over the past couple of years is nothing, one year wasn’t even a full season and figure skaters aren’t tested as regularly. Nathan Chen has barely been tested compared to athletes at his level in other disciplines.

I don't know the situation now, but around three years ago there was some inside info that Sasha's dad had his own opinions on what she should and shouldn't take. Which obviously didn't make Sasha any more popular at TT, since it's a totalitarian group where you don't question the coaches.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

So if 1 skater from Ice Dance Montreal tests positive, are we good to remove all the other athletes that train there? After all according to your post here - that's the standard, if 1 is doping than they all must be doping regardless of their negative drug tests

If that athlete is a minor, next to similar age competitors with the exact same coaching team and doctors. We should definitely investigate it. No?

 

[NAOTMAA]

I don't think that's true anymore. Serena Williams has spoken about how she was shocked when the testers showed up on her sisters doorstep while she was visiting. It was not Venus who also plays, this was a different sister and she lived in California while Serena lives in Florida. They are ruthless

Don't forget Kyoko Ina. USADA showed up on her home doorstep at night and unannounced. It was also unscheduled and out of competition. She couldn't produce a sample cause she said she was all ready for bed. And despite being led to think she could reschedule it for the next day (or so she claimed they told her) USADA charged her with refusing to take a doping test and suspended her for two years anyway. I remember it was questionable whether or not I/Z would keep competing before this all happened but the whole ordeal pretty much made the decision for them. That was all the way back in 2002.

 

[mrrice]

She must give an hour at least for every day. Including if she's travelling somewhere. I mean she did inform them she would be at her sister's house from what you said. But sure she would be surprised that they actually decided to make the trip when it isn't even close to her home. Maybe the sister's house is close to a testing facility in California and the tester wanted to take the chance to meet her.

That would totally be me!!!!

 

[4everchan]

While I would never assume any Olympic level sport is perfectly clean, my assumption before this week would have been that most cases, were pretty rare and like Maria Sotskova, where diuretics were likely used to help keep the last kilo or two off so they could jump easier.

sure but let's not forget that diuretics can also help washing off other drugs....

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

I don't know the situation now, but around three years ago there was some inside info that Sasha's dad had his own opinions on what she should and shouldn't take. Which obviously didn't make Sasha any more popular at TT, since it's a totalitarian group where you don't question the coaches.

I can see that being a reality to be honest, given the current news. She never quite went with the flow and has always done what’s best for her. I love that about Sasha.

 

[Amei]

Appeal Date is still TBD

 

[4everchan]

Some of you need to read a bit more about what a protected person means. It's more nuanced than just "protected" person

 

[moonkat]

First, I don't think it's only possible for skaters to land quads if they are doping. Rika did it. Tuk did it. Other young Russian skaters are landing them. A few young Japanese and American skaters are landing them. I also don't think you can blame Rika's injury on quads. She went to Worlds / WTT with a hurt leg which led her to jump in
way that hurt her back. I'm a huge Rika fan but that was the fault of her own choices and her team's choices.

However, I think the real advantage this drug provides is consistency which is what has really separated TT from the other skaters. When you can practice more, you can become more consistent. That's the primary thing that as separated TT from competitors. And, yes, despite the few regular posters here who will gaslight every situation involving this team, it's pretty obvious clear that if this drug was given to Valieva ( the most naturally talented of the group) it would also be given to it's other members. The doctor probably just miscalculated the dosage for Valieva and it hadn't cleared her system yet. This may not have mattered if RUSADA had still been able to test its own samples, but they couldn't and so the result couldn't be covered up. ( RUSADA fired it's previous head who was trying to clean things up, it's clear they don't want to change)

Indeed it will happen again and again.

I don't know the situation now, but around three years ago there was some inside info that Sasha's dad had his own opinions on what she should and shouldn't take. Which obviously didn't make Sasha any more popular at TT, since it's a totalitarian group where you don't question the coaches.

I'm not surprised. She's never been consistent, so maybe that's why. We also have Veronika, who is talented, but not consistent. Hope Sasha didn't have to take anything to return.

 

[zanadude]

Some of you need to read a bit more about what a protected person means. It's more nuanced than just "protected" person

Like how an umbrella "protects" you from the rain, but doesn't guarantee that you won't get a little wet.

 

[vorravorra]

Also, even without obstreperous parents, it's possible for skaters to have individual pharmacological support regimes. I am by no means stating none of the other girls have ever been given something illegal (I don't know), but they don't all have to be on the exact same thing. But the way it's been described, you don't question and neither do your parents, which may sound crazy but that's the type of parents that take their children to that group at that level.

 

[Wrenne]

Why does it always take so long to process these drug tests and then go through the legal processes. It often feels like they don't get around to it till the next competition when they then reach for the tests of anyone who might medal.

Have they actually processed the tests of the other female skaters yet?

And I'm not sure how 'protected' a child is when those responsible for making the decisions would chose to jeopardise her career in their own self interests. Because she's still as guilty as if she'd make the choice as an adult because any decisions were made in her name by those authorised to do it.

 

[skycastles]

You have to wonder how Sasha's year with Plushenko factors into this, if it factors in at all.

 

[jen84]

I say let her compete. Here’s my logic.

- if she’s innocent, a 15 year old was most likely cheated out an Olympic Gold Medal that she won’t win in 4 years. By all accounts, Russia is far too deep to expect her to be in this
position in 4 years to do it.

- if she’s guilty, strip her of the medal later and redistribute the medals if needed. That seems far more fair to me as far as Kami is concerned.

- I also think even if she competes, we won’t see her best and that’s going to stink regardless. All the unnecessary attention is going to rattle her, it already has.


Now, if she’s legitimately guilty, I think we can all agree she wasn’t doing it herself. And if that’s the case, you won’t complete that investigation before the start of the competition anyway. That’s going to take a long time.

 

[silveruskate]

Don't forget Kyoko Ina. USADA showed up on her home doorstep at night and unannounced. It was also unscheduled and out of competition. She couldn't produce a sample cause she said she was all ready for bed. And despite being led to think she could reschedule it for the next day (or so she claimed they told her) USADA charged her with refusing to take a doping test and suspended her for two years anyway. I remember it was questionable whether or not I/Z would keep competing before this all happened but the whole ordeal pretty much made the decision for them. That was all the way back in 2002.

Oh interesting! I never knew about that, so harsh. Apparently it's just for top athletes in their special Testing Pool but that is like 24/7 surveillance wow.