Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups | Page 72 | Golden Skate

Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

As some other user here pointed out before - how long did it take to deliver the sample in question to the lab in Stockholm?

Possibly tampered with samples are not unheard of. Remember what happened in Sochi and Alex Schwarzer (Kostner's ex) is pretty sure, that he was framed before Rio and his sample's urine seemed somewhat fishy after many rounds of analysis performed on it. I haven't fully followed the case, I don't like the guy and racewalking ist the most unattraktive sport ever. But I want to mention it, because everything is in the realm of possibility. Especially if it took that sample really long to reach its destination. Or, If it took long to deliver it, somebody wanted it to be overlooked. Also possible.
 
Sorry for maybe not nice question - but isn't situation the same in other aspects of Russian bureaucracy / officials?
I feel that in other areas, from science to politics it is the same. So why would sport be an exception? The same type of ppl are there.
You are wrong. Russia is not good with mass-market. That's why our Ladas are the shame of cars. But we were first in space when only one rocket had to be built. Yes, on average Russian bureaucrats are incompetent. But I am sure that there is enough bright people to cover a limited number of key areas. And I cannot imagine more important sports for the national pride and self-esteem now than women's figure skating. Synchronized swimming and rhytmic gimnastics do not command the prime time on national TV.

They failed and this is an epic fail.

Could it be done differently? I think that in sports "under the cover" of "big guns" like fencing under Usmanov this shameful situation would never happen. But no one cares about fencing. Russians care about figure skating. And there are truly a bunch of old incompetent folks who run it.
 
In the name of all that's holy, no!

I am deeply convinced that one of the important components of the global success of Russian figure skating is the leaders of Fed. The Eteri phenomenon would have been impossible (at least in all its splendor and grandeur) without the support of the federation leaders. I hope you are not one of those who like these stupid memes "Goroshkov as always knows nothing, our federation is the worst, blah blah blah" In recent years, every step of the federation is reasonable, wise and correct in the long run.
Do you have a vested interest in Russian figure skating other than being a fan? If yes, I cannot continue to argue with you because my only interest is my love to this sport and our incredible girls who had the most terrible nightmare now.
 
How do you think trimetazidine got into Kamila's system or doping test? You must've been wondering about it.
I have no idea. The scenarios are: 1) she took it and she knew what she was taking 2) she took it and she did not know what she was taking 3) she did not take it - the micro dose in just 1 sample (she was clear after Europeans) came with something else by mistake 4) someone put it in her water 5) the urine sample was tampered with
 
Wow, It's unexpected to read this from an American journalist.

Although she couldn't resist throwing a stone in the direction of Eteri (completely illogical). Well, this is understandable - if it were a strictly positive article in defense of the Russians, she would probably be lynched :biggrin:
Re. The article: I agree that we need to rethink the anti-doping structures. And also we should think about why elite sports so often lead to doping - and how we can change the atmosphere of elite sports in a constructive manner rather than just a policy of "zero tolerance", which is so often just a way to punish the people persecuted by the system.

That said the article is very strongly worded without any particularly good analysis/evidence.
 
I wonder if the people defending Team Tutberidze, acting like this is no big deal, gaslighting everybody like treating kids like they treat them is a-ok, would keep the same energy if instead of Kamila it would be an American or Japanese skater and Russia would be the country to gain in team medal standings?
 
Personally, I would like to know more about the reliability of these tests. How high is the incidence of false positives and false negatives. How often are samples mislabled or lost?
I have another related question, is there at least 1 example where WADA/labs confirmed that test was positive due to the lab error?
There are so many false positives with COVID-19 f.e., even with PCR tests.
Yes, COVID is tested much more often than doping but still for all years of doping tests sure there must be lab errors?
 
I wonder if the people defending Team Tutberidze, acting like this is no big deal, gaslighting everybody like treating kids like they treat them is a-ok, would keep the same energy if instead of Kamila it would be an American or Japanese skater and Russia would be the country to gain in team medal standings?
You like "whatabout"? OK. What about miss Biles who won how many gold medals in Rio? She openly took strong PE substances under the cover of TUE issued by a US doctor for the condition which even does not exist as medical condition in many countries. She is "GOAT, the hero and moral leader" in the U.S. while Kamila with just one hint of some obscure substance is "a criminal". Double standards.
 
I wonder if the people defending Team Tutberidze, acting like this is no big deal, gaslighting everybody like treating kids like they treat them is a-ok, would keep the same energy if instead of Kamila it would be an American or Japanese skater and Russia would be the country to gain in team medal standings?
I know for sure that if, for example, Nathan Chen had got into a completely similar story (clean both before and after, the sample from the national championship is polluted by this "doping")then I would laugh in the eyes of people who would question his leadership based on this.
 
I have no idea. The scenarios are: 1) she took it and she knew what she was taking 2) she took it and she did not know what she was taking 3) she did not take it - the micro dose in just 1 sample (she was clear after Europeans) came with something else by mistake 4) someone put it in her water 5) the urine sample was tampered with
I know what scenarios are, that's why I asked what you think. :)
 
You like "whatabout"? OK. What about miss Biles who won how many gold medals in Rio? She openly took strong PE substances under the cover of TUE issued by a US doctor for the condition which even does not exist as medical condition in many countries. She is "GOAT, the hero and moral leader" in the U.S. while Kamila with just one hint of some obscure substance is "a criminal". Double standards.
I have no idea how your response has anything to do with what I said specifically about posters here. Deflection.
 
So regarding Jessica Calalang, my understanding is that she wasn’t cleared because it was a cosmetic. She was cleared because the substance was ultimately removed from the banned list. There was already a process under way to remove this drug from the list before she was suspended and she became part of the process in while fighting to be cleared. Once the decision was made to remove then she was no longer suspended. But had this substance remained banned then it was irrelevant that it was in make-up and that she didn’t know. She was considered to be fully responsible and would have served her entire suspension.

Am I wrong?

“At the end of June, her attorney, Howard Jacobs, notified Calalang about potential changes in rules regarding 4-CPA to be voted on at the end of September. If those regulations passed, it would likely result in no violation for her. And USADA suggested she remain in the case until then. In return, USADA offered to lift her provisional suspension, allowing Calalang to compete and receive funding immediately.”


Honestly how would someone prove whether it was the real substance or something that just ‘metabolized like it’?

If you read further it sounds like the suspension was lifted because of changes regarding the banned substance, not because she was able to prove it was cosmetic.

You are wrong as to what happened to Calalang.

Calalang tested positive for the *metabolite* 4-CPA -- which can originate both from the *non-prohibited* cosmetic ingredient chlorphenesin and from the *banned* substance meclofenoxate.
The sample was taken at U.S. Nationals in January 2021.

The unfortunate circumstance for Calalang was/is that it was not until after she tested positive for the metabolite that WADA figured out that there could be an innocent source of the metabolite.

USADA's praise for Jessica in October 2021 article (emphases added):

" A USADA spokesperson told insidethegames that Calalang had done "everything right" and hoped this "horrible" situation would not happen again following changes to WADA's rules.

"We thoroughly investigated the case and other similar ones reported earlier this year," said USADA.

"Our science team determined the innocent source of the laboratory finding and we determined there was no rule violation, which was confirmed by WADA.

"WADA’s new laboratory processes will ensure this horrible circumstance does not impact athletes going forward.

"We would like to thank Ms Calalang for doing everything right and for her cooperation and truthfulness during this trying situation and are glad the truth was determined." "​

The above is an excerpt from:


From new research reported in August 2021 in the scientific literature (emphases added):

"4-CPA is a common metabolite of meclofenoxate, chlorphenesin, and chlorphenesin carbamate. Monitoring the diagnostic urinary metabolites of chlorphenesin provides conclusive supporting evidence of whether chlorphenesin or the prohibited nootropic meclofenoxate was administered."


From the full paper (emphasis added):

"... the present investigation contributes to identifying new sources of 4-CPA, namely common dermally applied cosmetics, lotions, and sunscreens, which has been a biomarker for the assessment of prohibited drug use in sports as well as herbicide exposure, and will support, in particular, sports drug testing and management protocol results."

https://analyticalsciencejournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/rcm.9183

WADA now is aware that a positive test for the metabolite 4-CPA is not sufficient to make a finding of the banned substance meclofexonate meclofenoxate -- and that additional testing is necessary to determine whether the source of 4-CPA in fact is the non-prohibited chlorphenesin.

From WADA's Technical Letter from November 2021:

Before reporting a result as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) for meclofenoxate, Laboratories shall exclude the consumption of 4-CPA contaminated food and/or exposure to chlorphenesin-containing products or chlorphenesin carbamate as the origin of the finding ...

In order to probe for the presence of chlorphenesin or chlorphenesin carbamate-derived Metabolites in urine Samples, which provides evidence for a permitted source of 4-CPA, both GC-MS(/MS) as well as LC-MS(/MS) are applicable Analytical Methods. ...


... Also I think they're pretty harsh about "doping" accidentally or no. Jessica Calalang and partner missed out on Worlds because of a lip balm with a banned ingredient in it, I'm pretty sure the amount wasn't even performance enhancing but because it CAN be used that way no amount is allowed. ...

Just want to reiterate that the ingredient in Calalang's cosmetic product was not the banned substance meclofenoxate.

It was chlorphenesin, which is not prohibited.
 
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Personally, I would like to know more about the reliability of these tests. How high is the incidence of false positives and false negatives. How often are samples mislabled or lost?
The sample bottles can't be mislabeled, there ist the same number on the a and b sample bottles and on the lids. The athlete gets the number and the samples are processed anonymously. They exchanged the urine in Sochi with the help of the athletes - they sent their sample numbers. And those sample bottles are difficult to open, normally the lid gets cut of in the lab with a special machine. But in Sochi they found a way (heat) to open them. The process only left scratch marks on the bottles. So, if Valieva's sample has been tampered with - how did the people who did it get the number? And aren't the bottles still not 100% tamper proof?
But I've wondered often what happens with the open bottles in the labs. Any employee could so something. But I guess you have the B sample for those cases. The athlete and his legal team ist allowed to be present when the B sample is opened. That should be enough to keep the integrity of the process. And also false positive results should be proven false by the tests performed on the b sample.
So if there are no scratch marks on the bottles and the B sample tests positive as well ... then the conclusion can only be that there is indeed a positive test result.
 
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