Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[el henry]

I think one good reason to distrust Pravda on this issue is that it has just been stated by an IOC official that they have not received the CAS ruling yet, hence, no info should be available to various Pravdas at this point.

Never heard of Pravda before btw, and their website looks like a typical gossip media outlet, the language in the article is atrocious, this is why I asked if that is a credible source. Did not strike me as such.

You never heard of Pravda?

You mean today's Pravda, which is a privately owned tabloid type newspaper, or the original Pravda, the official newspaper of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union? Here is the background, which as far as I know an area where Wikipedia is accurate:

Pravda - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again, whether or not you believe them is up to you. I only reprinted it to show that they are not reporting this as a "joke" or a "humorous story".

 

[Bentley]

Something very strange about this. A little transparency would be helpful to stop
the stupid rumors. I wonder if there is not more to to this like a minor medical issue, since they
keep allowing her to compete. How unfair, no Medal presentation. What if someone else wins
Gold.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I stopped reading that pravda article when it appeared to suggest that grandpa would have to feed Kamla in a “mommy bird to baby bird” fashion in order for his heart medication to show up on a drug test.

That’s way too much info

 

[matin calin]

today's Pravda

today's Pravda, or, more correctly, pravda.ru since it was formally registered as a website in 2018. It has nothing to do with the Soviet Pravda.

 

[flipsydoodle]

You mean 7.81 HOURS.

From your source, " In young, healthy subjects, the half life of trimetazidine is 7.81 hours.3,9 In patients over 65, the half life increases to 11.7 hours.3,9"

Haha. Yes. Thanks for the correction.
What this did show me, though, is that there's quite a large range in the half life, and a miscalculation could easily happen, especially if you weren't allowed to drink water and you were taking the medication between phases of a competitive event.
I'd guess skaters were being tested at their home base so they'd get the correct dosage and periodization and know how long it would take a given skater to be clear, but, yeah, oopsies could easily happen with this one.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The lab stance hasn’t changed.

It took the full 20 days upon receipt due to Covid outbreak. However, the sample wasn’t marked priority by Rusada and therefore not prioritized for earlier testing like that of EC samples

What's going on at that lab? You'd think if one of the headliners of the entire Olympics tests positive, they'd get right to work on the B sample. So many people and entities have dropped the ball on this situation that it's almost become a comedy of errors. I feel awful for the skaters who trained for years only to become part of this epic fail. If Kamila wins silver, does the gold medalist at least get her moment of glory to accept her prize on the podium?

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Source of grandpa story: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/2022-olympic-doping-controversy.90942/post-2935634

 

[Amei]

What's going on at that lab? You'd think if one of the headliners of the entire Olympics tests positive, they'd get right to work on the B sample. So many people and entities have dropped the ball on this situation that it's almost become a comedy of errors. I feel awful for the skaters who trained for years only to become part of this epic fail. If Kamila wins silver, does the gold medalist at least get her moment of glory to accept her prize on the podium?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - the sample B has to be requested to be tested, I don't think the lab tests it automatically if sample A is positive

 

[flipsydoodle]

For those who say it is only a trace amount, let’s be real. Trace amounts also can mean the substance level has diminished due to the amount of time it was in her system or only low levels used. Levels of drugs diminish as it is absorbed and metabolized That’s why we have to take medications daily or multiple times daily depending on the reason for the use of the drug. Also this drug is used to control Angina which occurs normally around the age of 50 or older and is more common in males. Why would a 15 year old girl with no known heart condition even have trace amounts in their systems.

I'm thinking a TMZ patient would only ever excrete a "trace amount" in any one sample. The trace amount would recur in several trips to the loo.

 

[Jungle2]

I think that we might need some radical unorthodox solutions. The obvious issue is the team event. The question is not even about Kamilla's partcipation in Lady's individual event. Can we just pretend the ladie's part did not happen and take into consideration scores in individual event? the best from every country kamilla not included. Or Can we just exclude Ladies part altogether and calculate scores from three events?

 

[Magill]

What's going on at that lab? You'd think if one of the headliners of the entire Olympics tests positive, they'd get right to work on the B sample. So many people and entities have dropped the ball on this situation that it's almost become a comedy of errors. I feel awful for the skaters who trained for years only to become part of this epic fail. If Kamila wins silver, does the gold medalist at least get her moment of glory to accept her prize on the podium?

AFAIK, they cannot start working on the B sample by themselves. It happens at the request of Kamila and she has a right to be present / send her lawyer. As I understand, the proceedings did not get to that stage yet.
As for the long transportation period, I wonder if it is possible that the parcel containing biological material was quarantined at the border? Or at the institution(s) itself? Russsia has been notorius for its careless COVID procedures so they might be some waiting period to allow the parcel into EU or wherever it was supposed to get. I am just guessing as when I send parcels these days, even within EU and with no biological - medicinal materials, they usually warn they might be delays due to different/ever-changing border COVID-related rules for handling foreign parcels . What do you think?

 

[Jungle2]

Sweden is known to be even more careless about COVID than Russia.

 

[Magill]

Sweden is known to be even more careless about COVID than Russia.

But it is the EU border. Different rules apply, I think.

 

[TontoK]

I think that we might need some radical unorthodox solutions. The obvious issue is the team event. The question is not even about Kamilla's partcipation in Lady's individual event. Can we just pretend the ladie's part did not happen and take into consideration scores in individual event? the best from every country kamilla not included. Or Can we just exclude Ladies part altogether and calculate scores from three events?

The team event is a mess.

If Kamilla is disqualified, there are several scenarios.

• If Team Russia as a whole is disqualified, then everyone moves up, and Canada gets the bronze.
• If only Kamila's points are nullified, then Russia retains the bronze, as they beat Canada by more than 20 points. Gold USA, Silver Japan.
• If Kamila's points are nullified, and If the other women move up one placement (and earn two additional points each - one from long,one from short) then Canada will take the bronze by one point.

And as far as I can tell there is no rule or precedent for how this will be handled.

Editing this: If this is viewed like a relay, then the entire team will be disqualified. If it is handled as though the women's segments were individual events rolled up into part of a whole... then I think the third scenario is the correct one - it's most similar to how an individual event is handled when doping is discovered after the fact - everyone moves up a placement.

 

[Jungle2]

But it is the EU border. Different rules apply, I think.

but samples from European were delivered on time. I don't see any radical diffrence. P.S. just got a regualr package from China. only 13 days and thousands kilometres.

 

[Jungle2]

The team event is a mess.

If Kamilla is disqualified, there are several scenarios.

• If Team Russia as a whole is disqualified, then everyone moves up, and Canada gets the bronze.
• If only Kamila's points are nullified, then Russia retains the bronze, as they beat Canada by more than 20 points. Gold USA, Silver Japan.
• If Kamila's points are nullified, and If the other women move up one placement (and earn two additional points each - one from long,one from short) then Canada will take the bronze by one point.

And as far as I can tell there is no rule or precedent for how this will be handled.

that's why i suggest to think outside the box. Obviously Russia was at disadvanaged as they had no chance to substitute kamilla due to the lateness of the test. Russia rightfully would use this argument and this case would drag. Frankly speaking I have some doubts on scoring of Amercians and Japanese teams.

 

[NaVi]

Last Chance Repost: Valieva's lawyers or someone needs to intervene if her chances of winner her legal success are not good. TBH, I would withdraw no matter what. She has nothing prove and if she wins her legal battle she'd still have a Team Gold.

She'll earn a lot of good will and have reduced media attention for future hearings if she withdraws.

Valieva needs to realize it's going to be much harder to come back to skating if her individual Olympic medal is stripped. And they're likely going to be stripped considering how previous cases have gone(though I think she'd have higher than typical chance of success).

Practically every time she'd compete it would be mentioned. It wasn't her fault to be in the position of the Team Tournament, but now she is responsible for being in the Individual Event.

Some insider who knows for a fact whether she was given this intentionally or not needs to intervene and tell her to pull out if she was given this intentionally.

Valieva needs legal advice that cares for her future and not for her coach's or federation's future.

If I was Valieva, even if it was accidental ingestion I would be happy with the Gold medal I'd receive if I won my case. If she wins her case then everyone is going to think she would have won the individual Gold. She has nothing to prove in that regard.

If I was Valieva, I would put out a statement that:
1. Slam being put into this situation without casting blame on anyone specifically.
2. Thanks CAS for agreeing she should have been allowed to compete in the individual event. Mention that because of his case future athletes are less likely to be put in this situation.
3. Mention that if you win your case you'll still have and cherish your Gold medal from the Team Event.
4. Pull out of the individual event so that the medalists can have their moment
5. Say you're leaving immediately to mount a defense. I might include a mention of hoping that providing a hair sample can help prove innocence.
6. Say you hope to be skating at the World FIgure Skating Championships.

 

[Magill]

but samples from European were delivered on time. I don't see any radical diffrence. P.S. just got a regualr package from China. only 13 days and thousands kilometres.

The European samples were coming from Tallin which is within the EU. And your parcel probably did not contain biological - medicinal material although I might be wrong, but this is pretty rare content and for sure different set of rules apply, again. I don't know, I was just trying to find a simple explanation but I am not to fight for it, just an idea in a brain storm, not necessarily a very bright one

 

[Jungle2]

Last Chance Repost: Valieva's lawyers or someone needs to intervene if her chances of winner her legal success are not good. TBH, I would withdraw no matter what. She has nothing prove and if she wins her legal battle she'd still have a Team Gold.

She'll earn a lot of good will and have reduced media attention for future hearings if she withdraws.

She can't withdraw as this will automatically mean no team gold for Russia. hopefully you dont want to argue that Russia is now the strongest team.

 

[skatemd1]

It's the PAST stance of the IOC, being too lenient with Russia, that has led to this debacle so in that sense, yes they screwed up by not imposing draconian consequences from the outset, after the Sochi doping scandal was laid bare for all to see.

Yes, this is the heart of the issue right here. We know there was massive doping, and they did virtually nothing, so the message is go ahead and do it some more. Ridiculous. Now we know they are doing it again.