Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[fabienne1996]

are the rumors actually true that after hearing the excuse the agent that represented rusada wanted the suspension to be guven again but was overruled? because if so i am sorry but thats really telling if the agency that advocates for you and lifted the suspension in the first place makes a 180degree turn after hearing that excuse ?

 

[skatedreamer]

You guys were the ones to vehemently disagree with me. I just mentioned how false the article was! (Not even quoting anybody.) So don't turn this back on me please.

Oh, please. You may disagree with what's in the article but that doesn't mean it is false.

 

[Draculus]

at least 24 hours before the NY Times wrote its article. If a 15 year old is world medalist, competing in the Olympics, and in the public eye for testing positive for a banned substance, I fail to see why a journalist would not use this information.

Somebody make a picture of me naked (without my approval) and posted it on his blog.
Can NYT repost this picture?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Huh? I've read A LOT of VERY pro-Valieva press from the West over the last several days. Arguing with a friend who wrote some of it.

I said anti-Russia, not anti-Kamila.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I'm European and and I think letting Valieva compete is a disgrace. Period.

It is not about what you think, especially when i personally don't care what people with that way of commenting are thinking... As i said, it is not about Kamila too, it is all about getting more medals and the media...

 

[kan01]

It is not about what you think because i personally don't care what people with the comments as yours are thinking... As i said, it is not about Kamila too, it is all about getting more medals and the media...

If you don't care maybe don't reply then, you already said what you wanted to say about the medals in your previous post.
??

 

[lariko]

Anyway, guys, I am going to bow out, just gonna say, that I hope that in the end, justice will be done, and that it won’t be only about scores and medals, it will be about stopping the culprits.

It´s not interesting for me if the the other substances are legal or not, it´s the mix of all of this together with the banned substance that is the shocking thing here. They are experimenting with a combination of heart medications on a child. A child who doesn´t know what is good for her or not in the long term.

L-carnitine is not a heart medication. It is a standard workout supplement. Amateurs take it all the time. That actually as un-surprising to find in any athlete, as creatine or protein isolate. Anyone who trains a little harder will be taking supplements, because body uses up stuff like l-carnitine or chromium or potassium faster. You'll get stuff like leg crumps if you don't.

I just wish journalists stayed to specific banned substance, not muddy the waters. Lol, it's like looking at a water sample and yelling, omg, there is an iron and manganese exceedance in my field of study. Suuure, there is, but 99% of them do, and it's just how it is out here, it's background.

 

[kan01]

I said anti-Russia, not anti-Kamila.

But is it anti-Russia or is it anti-doping? There's a difference.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

If you don't care maybe don't reply then, you already said what you wanted to say about the medals in your previous post.
??

You replayed to my post actually, and that without saying anything clever and connected with my topic at all. So sorry i re-replayed, but i'm weak on the lack of logic and education on the topic. What some posters think here is what they think and that's all. What reality is can be something totally different

 

[el henry]

Somebody make a picture of me naked (without my approval) and posted it on his blog.
Can NYT repost this picture?

I'm afraid the is deflection. Oh look, a squirrel!

Not at all what I said or what I argued, and I'm afraid I don't have the time to explain the legal differences between the two here in the US. But I assure you, differences there are.

 

[[email protected]]

That's....exactly what these tablets are. The "MR" stands for "modified release," which is one of several terms used for medications that are formulated to break down slowly in the digestive system and release a steady dose of drug over time.

Look, I replied to the post which specifically said "capsules" and showed that there exist not only capsules but also tablets. I never used trimetazidin and I had no idea what forms of it exist in Russia. The first glimse on the Internet gives dosages 20, 35, and 80 mg, tablets and capsules. Another thing is that currently only 80 mg Preduktal capsules are sold in Moscow - I just looked it up and found no current availability of Preduktal 35 mg.

It's absolutely my making it up but in principle there could be a scenario when grandpa used to have 35 mg Preduktal tablets and now has to split a 80 mg capsule because he cannot buy 35 mg.

Again, I do not insist that it was the case. The investigation will show. I just said that it was possible to have this substance polluting the glass.

I also think that it is "highly unlikely" that it was given to Kamila intentionally. It's not about its dubious PE effect. It's about the information that I read that there were no clinical trials of it with people younger than 18 years of age. I am not on the bandwagon of "evil Eteri" who "gives stuff which is not intended for minors". I have not heard of a single case of "Russian doping history" when trimetadizin was associated with minors. It proves nothing, of course.

Finally, I just randomly checked this thread and I don't plan to be here often. Those who burst with indignation will listen to nothing but to the choir from their "faction". They already made up their mind - it was doping and the only question left is whether Kamila herself knew about it.

I see no reason to keep arguing. I shall wait for the investigation results. I think that there was no doping as there should be logic behind it. A one time use of the stuff which was not even studied on minors defies the logic for me. Kamila is too good. She can win even under the toughest pressure which she showed today. Why risk everything taking a dubious pill? Again it's logic. It's not about the culture. The Russians who move to the West suddenly become very law obedient, e.g. observing the speed limit. It's not about the fundamental change in their attitudes. It's because the cost of breaking the law becomes much higher than the benefit from. We have here a truly disproportionate ratio cost-benefit so that I belive that there will be found an explanation that has nothing to do with doping.

 

[Draculus]

I find it really disturbing that Kamila was taking these other medications which, whatever they are designed for, were not designed for improving athletic performance.

hypoxen is marketed specifically 'to improve athletic performance'.

Banned or not, I don't think young athletes (or any, for that matter) should be taking off-label drugs like these to improve their performance. It certainly makes me ask, what is going on in her training camp? How sad that this talented young girl apparently wasn't allowed to develop based on her talent alone.

And you can buy L Carnitine (100% vegan!) on amazon under the 'sport nutrition'. ("visit the natural nutrition store!")

I think from the FDA point of view it is not a medicament, it is food supplement.

 

[kan01]

You replayed to my post actually, and that without saying anything clever and connected with my topic at all. So sorry i re-replayed, but i'm weak on the lack of logic and education on the topic. What some posters think here is what they think and that's all. What reality is can be something totally different

You act like only people in the US are outraged by this.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I can only suggest people from North America to watch more B ESP or any other European coverage, it is much more realistic and truthful to the situation. Now i realize that problem with North Americans is not that 'clean sport' narrative they are pushing, it is sadly and only about the medals (dumb me ). Because if Kamila were suspended, USA would get gold and Canada bronze... so let's just be real about what is behind all those media news. Unlike North America's media, there is no conflict of interest in Europe, so people can keep common sense there # sorry, not sorry

I only ever watch the Eurosport coverage, and I can testify that despite being fun and knowledgable they
have moments when I swear they have no idea what they're talking about.

Also, if you think "clean sport" is the property of North Americans alone you are mistaken,
within this thread and outside of it.

 

[grandmahorsey]

I have an idea for making peace with Kamila Valieva and other skater. I propose to give Kamila her medal to the ranking that she finished in the team and individually. But to be just with other skater, they should remove her and pulling up the other skater Winning gold, silver and bronze.

For example if Kamila finish overall gold and for example if Anna is second overall, giving Kamila a sympathy gold and Anna the real Gold, and pull up all the other athletes. Example pull up USA, japan and Canada on the podium (gold, silver and bronze) and example pulling up Anna, Kaori and Alexandra (gold, silver and bronze). And giving and additionnel medal to Kamila in the ranking that she finish overall.

For me it doesn't matter if we give two gold medal in individual event if that make skater in peace with this story.

Works for me. After all, the solution at the 2002 Olympics resulted in awarding 2 Gold Medals in Pairs, so the precedent of awarding 2 Golds has been set. Both recipients participated in the medal ceremony too. The only difference, if I recall, is the silver medal was not awarded to anyone.

The difference is in 2002, though, is there were issues with cheating judges, not the athletes having banned substances. That is a big difference. But, they did it once, and they can award 2 gold medals again so that the athletes who did not somehow test positive for a banned substance can have their day of glory.

 

[Draculus]

I'm afraid the is deflection. Oh look, a squirrel!

Not at all what I said or what I argued, and I'm afraid I don't have the time to explain the legal differences between the two here in the US. But I assure you, differences there are.

so the answer is no.
If that person publish my home address, my work time schedule and security code for the entrance door, can NYT repost it?

 

[anonymoose_au]

Why risk everything taking a dubious pill?

Who knows, but why was she taking the two other medications? Is every skater taking them too? Even if they're not banned that still sounds dodgy, especially as pretty much all the skaters at Crystal apart from Moris are under 18.

If this was any other coaching team but Crystal would you be so quick to shrug it off?

 

[silveruskate]

The cases would need to be similar. Personally, I didn't see any similarity, particularly in the way the discovery of the test results was treated. The case was presented as some sort of cover-up, when it was the complete opposite of a cover-up, as far as I could tell.

Also, were the WADA/USADA/IAAF rules the same in 1999? I honestly don't know.

I don't mind someone doing an actual analysis: here is a case with similar facts, (show how the facts are similar) similar substance (same), decided under the same rules, here was the outcome, and that is why Kamila's outcome should be different.

Not simply ohmagerd, American athletes doped and went through the process.

BBC SPORT | Athletics | Young set to lose gold

But the Court of Arbitration for Sport said Young should have been banned for two years, ruling him out of the Games.
.....
It said the original decision by the USATF's Doping Appeals Board to clear Young was wrong and based on an "inadequate and irrelevant" theory put forward by Young's expert witness, which had "no scientific basis".
......
The IAAF, which battled for years to force USATF to provide details of the case and took the case to arbitration, was pleased with the verdict.

The USATF exonerate him just in time for the 2000 Olympics and withhold information about the case for years. No cover up? And for some reason the IOC looked the other way when it was happening.

It's similar to how Valieva appealed to RUSADA and they lifted the provisional suspension. But in her case IOC/WADA/ISU did get involved and she actually won this part of her case fairly through CAS.

I'm all for fairness and there being a proper full investigation on what happened with Valieva. But thing is I'm shocked the USATF wasn't investigated properly.

 

[mskater93]

How can they skate for another country if they are banned from skating?

IF Russia had been banned in 2016, 18, 20, and 22, they farm them out to skate for one of the above (my alternate universe right now) and they do what they do now.

 

[silveruskate]

Oh, please. You may disagree with what's in the article but that doesn't mean it is false.

I'm allowed to call it false. I didn't quote anybody but just commented on the article. Funnily I never said it discounts the prohibited substance or anything but the poster you defend shifts the sands of what is being talked about because he is caught with his pants down (because I'm right in my original post). And I mean they literally changed their own article but whatever you say...