Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[matin calin]

Are we gonna pretend we don't understand who they is? Her team: coaches, doctors. Her handlers, parents. Them.
Now you're gonna ask who "we" is as well?
Or did the press just made up the grandfather story? Wasn't it her mother? And the coaches had to agree with her testifying that.

We don't know how, when and by whom the grandfather was initially mentioned, and if he was mentioned it all. In the only official statement that have been made so far Valieva's lawyer called the grandfather story "a distortion of facts". Would they still make it an official excuse after they've publicly rejected it? Who knows, but I find it unlikely.

 

[skatedreamer]

You assume this "grooming" (brainwashing?) process has occurred. There is no evidence of that. Most 15 year olds are well able to express their opposing views to their parents. (A lot of parents probably wish that weren't the case!)

In the US, yes. In the Russian figure skating system, which I understand to be very authoritarian....eh, maybe not so much.

IDK about you but I sure wouldn't have the guts to talk back to a Russian coach. Eteri, Mishin, Moskvina? The thought makes my head explode!

 

[nikros]

All of you and journalist forgot about presumption of innocence. You shame that girl without any proves. All you have is a words of the shameless journalists.
Doping is bad, but what all these WADA and USADA are doing, it is just a witch-hunt. Many innocent athletes are missing the competition, when the judges check their innocence. I’m happy that Kamila can skate now. And nobody for the moment can’t say, that she is guilty.

 

[Mista Ekko]

All of you and journalist forgot about presumption of innocence. You shame that girl without any proves. All you have is a words of the shameless journalists.
Doping is bad, but what all these WADA and USADA are doing, it is just a witch-hunt. Many innocent athletes are missing the competition, when the judges check their innocence. I’m happy that Kamila can skate now. And nobody for the moment can’t say, that she is guilty.

Actually, we have a positive test for a banned substance,
which is what started all of this, and historically all you really need,
plus she was actually allowed to compete so her innocence is still in tact for the time being.

 

[solani]

then make a podium for 30 skaters... i mean they are all victims of this mess.. the event has become a circus.

and please, let's not compare 2002 to this... the issue is very different here.... both pairs were held hostage of judges cheating in 2002... and it could have gone either way, and the athletes did not try to gain an unfair advantage themselves.
Here, it's not a question of it going either way because of equivalent performances. It's a question of "well it could go either way depending on how it ends up being judged later on after a more thorough investigation of the doping case"

I honestly think that the IOC had no choice to delay the medal ceremonies.. It was their only way to show their disagreement and to advocate for "clean sport".

The reality is that the IOC has failed ALL the athletes by allowing the ROC to compete at these games after the systemic doping scandal.

I thought, after this story became public, that the IOC would ban all Russian figure skaters from TT immediatly. Because we were told, that ROC athletes have to be clean and above reproach, without the shadow of a doubt.
Then Valieva even said, that she wants to medal for Russia (not ROC) and some Duma guy wants her to carry the flag at the closing ceremony.
I have no illusions, this is a farce. But they let 25 skaters qualify for the FS, so they can give away an additional medal as well.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

This is bolstered by the fact that so many skaters have come out recently (Tara, Adam Rippon, Mariah Bell, Johnny Weir, etc) who have all said that from the around TEN YEARS OLD, that they were trained and told that they were responsible for whatever they put in their body.

While we should tread lightly around placing blame on Kamila, I don't believe she is completely blameless in this situation - both before and after the sample's results were disclosed.

I just think about when I was 15, I wasn't even allowed to go to the shopping mall by myself. I don't think it's realistic to expect Kamila to push back on authority figures telling her what supplements to take, or withdraw from the Olympics on her own accord, as some here have suggested. Personally, I don't think she knew she was taking a banned substance because there would be no reason to tell her this information if skaters are commonly cycled off certain supplements before competition. If her team believed these would never show up on a drug test, why would they even tell Kamila? No kid wants to be told they're a drug cheat.

 

[nikros]

Remember what happened with Sergei Grinkov. Recently I heard about 18 years old soccer player who died from heart attack during the game.
You cannot predict in advance how intensive training will affect your body.
So I would give this drug to all young athletes to protect their health.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Remember what happened with Sergei Grinkov. Recently I heard about 18 years old soccer player who died from heart attack during the game.
You cannot predict in advance how intensive training will affect your body.
So I would give this drug to all young athletes to protect their health.

Great, duly noted. Now let's move on.

 

[macy]

i work with children age 6 to 18. Let me tell you that at 15, they are far from being naive, already at 12-13 they have ideas of their own and some are super strong-willed. They know justice and fairness. They know how to get what they want... especially the most competitive ones. We are talking about someone here who has traveled all over the place, worked super hard to get where she is... she may carry her plushies around but she is not a clueless toddler.

i have to point out child athletes such as figure skaters are not the same as "regular" kids. being an ex competitive skater myself in the US, they are much, much more sheltered and naive than the normal child. You are taught to trust and listen to all the adults around you- not just your parents but your coaches, trainers, doctors, judges, teachers etc. you are taught to trust them and not question them. you believe they have your best interest at heart and they know better than you.

personally because of this i was never really taught or encouraged to think for myself, form my own opinions or challenge an adult's POV as the people around me were always telling me what to do and evaluating me.

i get the sense that Kamila is likely pretty similar, especially being Russian.

 

[4everchan]

So I would give this drug to all young athletes to protect their health.

 

[Mista Ekko]

you are suggesting that trimetazidine would be good for the health of young athletes. jesus christ

Are you really getting into that bogus argument?
That's not how we wanted to open the 200th page...

 

[matin calin]

Doping? Doping matters!
Doping with these drugs makes her cheat!

Calm down a bit Not to pick up on you, but I think your posts are an example of how powerful the media is when it comes to generating and fuelling public outrage, the emotions take over all that is rational and sound.

No doping has been confirmed, as stated several times by the IOC spokesman Mark Adams. He more or less begged the journalists not to frame the situation as a confirmed doping case, since the investigation is still ongoing and not even the B-sample has been analysed yet (his words).

Kamila skated, but to see and hear the disgust in the commentators, said it all.

There was no disgust whatsoever expressed by the commentator on for example Eurosport (which is basically a no1 sport channel in Europe) who was praising Kamila as usual, the video can be easily found on YouTube. Neither there was any disgust directed to KV on Swedish TV. So please speak for your own country.

 

[el henry]

We don't know how, when and by whom the grandfather was initially mentioned, and if he was mentioned it all. In the only official statement that have been made so far Valieva's lawyer called the grandfather story "a distortion of facts". Would they still make it an official excuse after they've publicly rejected it? Who knows, but I find it unlikely.

We have the official petition from the WADA that mentioned the story. It has been reprinted here several times, but I will repost again:

https://dossier-center.appspot.com/kamila/.

(document in center right of screen)

Kamila's lawyer is the usual PR pablum that comes from lawyers, and is far from official. She saw that it was an international joke, and tried to backtrack.

ETA: and I have no time for the "Oh look, a squirrel" deflection, that it is not on an official website. Neither is the self-serving statement of Kamila's lawyer.

 

[4everchan]

i have to point out child athletes such as figure skaters are not the same as "regular" kids. being an ex competitive skater myself in the US, they are much, much more sheltered and naive than the normal child. You are taught to trust and listen to all the adults around you- not just your parents but your coaches, trainers, doctors, judges, teachers etc. you are taught to trust them and not question them. you believe they have your best interest at heart and they know better than you.

personally because of this i was never really taught or encouraged to think for myself, form my own opinions or challenge an adult's POV as the people around me were always telling me what to do and evaluating me.

i get the sense that Kamila is likely pretty similar, especially being Russian.

I am a very "you gotta figure things out by yourself" kind of mentor to my kids... so fair enough, it may be very different in the figure skating world. At the same time, we just don't know how it is for them... Seeing how Sasha left then went back, it shows that she is quite strong willed... but it's just impression, there is no way we can really tell.

 

[Amei]

Remember what happened with Sergei Grinkov. Recently I heard about 18 years old soccer player who died from heart attack during the game.
You cannot predict in advance how intensive training will affect your body.
So I would give this drug to all young athletes to protect their health.

Well nothing i have heard about the banned substance she tested positive for indicates its something that would be given to a healthy athlete. And if this is/ was something she needs to take there is TUE process, at this point its extremely unlikely she and her parents or coaches made any such application so it is very much a violation to be taking it while being an active athlete.

 

[nikros]

Actually, we have a positive test for a banned substance,
which is what started all of this, and historically all you really need,
plus she was actually allowed to compete so her innocence is still in tact for the time being.

But there are no proofs that she took the drug deliberately. Eteri is also smart enough, and she would not risk with many years of hard training, after all of this it is too stupid to take a forbidden drug.

 

[kenboy123]

I haven't commented on this and I'm definitely not reading 200 pages, but...how is she competing???...especially now that she was positive with not one, but THREE different drugs....and her excuse was awful...

 

[Mista Ekko]

But there are no proofs that she took the drug deliberately.

And also no proof she didn't.

We can asses likelihoods if you want.

 

[Pantsu]

We don't know how, when and by whom the grandfather was initially mentioned, and if he was mentioned it all. In the only official statement that have been made so far Valieva's lawyer called the grandfather story "a distortion of facts". Would they still make it an official excuse after they've publicly rejected it? Who knows, but I find it unlikely.

You can barely find that part in the media. They all quote either trash sources like pravda and dossier or that Oswald IOC guy. Nobody bothers to cite the actual words from the Valieva's lawyer on this situation.
"Reputable" Western media.

 

[chuckm]

I understood that Sasha left Eteri for Plushenko because her father wanted to get her away from Eteri and her draconian methods. Sasha went back because Plushenko wanted her to cut down on the quads and concentrate more on choreography and Sasha didn't like that.