Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[matin calin]

We have the official petition from the WADA that mentioned the story. It has been reprinted here several times, but I will repost again:

I don't know how you determined that it is official, all I see is a scanned copy on a questionable website. How is it "official", from a legal standpoint? No formal statement has been made yet and the CAS ruling has not been published so I am waiting for it to be released.

 

[el henry]

But there are no proofs that she took the drug deliberately. Eteri is also smart enough, and she would not risk with many years of hard training, after all of this it is too stupid to take a forbidden drug.

"Why would I steal from you, I'm so rich I don't need to steal from you" means nothing if my jewelry is in your pocket. And I didn't give you permission to take it.

In any event, someone was stupid enough to come up with Grandpa's glass as an excuse.

Kamila tested positive for a banned substance. She doesn't at this point even appear to be contesting the positive result.

As the kids say, periodt.

 

[Amei]

I haven't commented on this and I'm definitely not reading 200 pages, but...how is she competing???...especially now that she was positive with not one, but THREE different drugs....and her excuse was awful...

Its worth noting only 1 of 3 the substances are banned, so while people may not like it for those 2 substances which are not banned she is perfectly within her rights to take them.

 

[skatedreamer]

i have to point out child athletes such as figure skaters are not the same as "regular" kids. being an ex competitive skater myself in the US, they are much, much more sheltered and naive than the normal child. You are taught to trust and listen to all the adults around you- not just your parents but your coaches, trainers, doctors, judges, teachers etc. you are taught to trust them and not question them. you believe they have your best interest at heart and they know better than you.

personally because of this i was never really taught or encouraged to think for myself, form my own opinions or challenge an adult's POV as the people around me were always telling me what to do and evaluating me.

i get the sense that Kamila is likely pretty similar, especially being Russian.

Agreed. AFIK, the Russian system is much more authoritarian than in the US or other countries so I would guess that KV is even less likely to question her coaches, much less oppose them outright.

 

[Fanof]

Calm down a bit Not to pick up on you, but I think your posts are an example of how powerful the media is when it comes to generating and fuelling public outrage, the emotions take over all that is rational and sound.

No doping has been confirmed, as stated several times by the IOC spokesman Mark Adams. He more or less begged the journalists not to frame the situation as a confirmed doping case, since the investigation is still ongoing and not even the B-sample has been analysed yet (his words).

There was no disgust whatsoever expressed by the commentator on for example Eurosport (which is basically a no1 sport channel in Europe) who was praising Kamila as usual, the video can be easily found on YouTube. Neither there was any disgust directed to KV on Swedish TV. So please speak for your own country.

I've already mentioned it in the Ladies SP thread, but on Eurosport FR, the commentator said: "She is wonderful, but she should not be here, what a waste".

 

[el henry]

I don't know how you determined that it is official, all I see is a scanned copy on a questionable website. How is it "official", from a legal standpoint? No formal statement has been made yet and the CAS ruling has not been published so I am waiting for it to be released.

Because unless it is a forgery, it is signed by a WADA official.

Now it could be photoshopped, anything in this world is possible. But my Spousal Unit wrote a book on Photoshop, and I asked him to look at it, and he saw no evidence. ETA: I'm not saying it's a forensic investigation, but I tried with what I had

So far, it is the most trustworthy source. Certainly more trustworthy, as facts, than Kamila's lawyer. (I don't blame KV's lawyer, that's what lawyers do. She's doing it. Good for her. But it's not the best or last word on anything. )

 

[Flutzel]

I haven't commented on this and I'm definitely not reading 200 pages, but...how is she competing???...especially now that she was positive with not one, but THREE different drugs....and her excuse was awful...

Well, the other two substances aren't banned. It sure is a big coinkidink that Valieva also ended up drinking heart medication from her grandfather when she already was on two heart medications, though. After all, her team knew she was taking the other two - they were listed on the doping control form - so this isn't just a case of her somehow indulging in a heart medication cocktail via her grandpa.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

i have to point out child athletes such as figure skaters are not the same as "regular" kids. being an ex competitive skater myself in the US, they are much, much more sheltered and naive than the normal child. You are taught to trust and listen to all the adults around you- not just your parents but your coaches, trainers, doctors, judges, teachers etc. you are taught to trust them and not question them. you believe they have your best interest at heart and they know better than you.

Larry Nassar got away with his repulsive behavior for so long exactly because these athletes are told not to question authority and become conditioned to think things that aren't normal are. The sad thing for me is that, regardless of what happens with Kamila, these Russian kids will continue to be doped.

 

[cathlen]

I understood that Sasha left Eteri for Plushenko because her father wanted to get her away from Eteri and her draconian methods. Sasha went back because Plushenko wanted her to cut down on the quads and concentrate more on choreography and Sasha didn't like that.

Sad, I saw the improvement in her skating when she was under Plushy,

 

[el henry]

Good for Vincent.

Who of course has no intimate knowledge or exposure to cultures other than North America and the "West". /s

 

[Ducky]

You assume this "grooming" (brainwashing?) process has occurred. There is no evidence of that. Most 15 year olds are well able to express their opposing views to their parents. (A lot of parents probably wish that weren't the case!)

What else would you call the necessary environment that teaches students to ignore their own bodies, to train and compete while injured, to not drink water during competitions if not the result of being groomed and to trust that the coach knows what’s best and is always right? If a quality you are looking for when picking students to coach is young girls who obey without question, why on earth would you think they would tell their parents that something was wrong when they wouldn’t think it was wrong – because why would their coach suggest that?

 

[starlight97]

I understood that Sasha left Eteri for Plushenko because her father wanted to get her away from Eteri and her draconian methods. Sasha went back because Plushenko wanted her to cut down on the quads and concentrate more on choreography and Sasha didn't like that.

From which did you "understand" this? The Trusovs never gave an official reason while Kostornaya said she didn't want to share the ice with junior skaters.
Up until this doping revelation people had "understood" aka made up their own story, that Sasha left cause she wasn't showing the results she and her family wanted and because Krustalny urged her to reduce her amount of 4s.

 

[skatesofgold]

i work with children age 6 to 18. Let me tell you that at 15, they are far from being naive, already at 12-13 they have ideas of their own and some are super strong-willed. They know justice and fairness. They know how to get what they want... especially the most competitive ones. We are talking about someone here who has traveled all over the place, worked super hard to get where she is... she may carry her plushies around but she is not a clueless toddler.

I remember watching Kamila’s reaction to Anna’s skate last year at Russian nationals, and I was like boy, that is a girl who seems willing to do anything to win.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

i have to point out child athletes such as figure skaters are not the same as "regular" kids. being an ex competitive skater myself in the US, they are much, much more sheltered and naive than the normal child. You are taught to trust and listen to all the adults around you- not just your parents but your coaches, trainers, doctors, judges, teachers etc. you are taught to trust them and not question them. you believe they have your best interest at heart and they know better than you.

personally because of this i was never really taught or encouraged to think for myself, form my own opinions or challenge an adult's POV as the people around me were always telling me what to do and evaluating me.

i get the sense that Kamila is likely pretty similar, especially being Russian.

Thank you for saying it! This is such an important point that cannot be overstated. I work with and around several young athletes that live in little bubbles that make them very susceptible to peer pressure and especially when it comes from figures of authority.

It’s not always bad but it is worth noting and certainly being mindful of during this type of discussion.

 

[sailormoon]

Because unless it is a forgery, it is signed by a WADA official.

Now it could be photoshopped, anything in this world is possible. But my Spousal Unit wrote a book on Photoshop, and I asked him to look at it, and he saw no evidence. ETA: I'm not saying it's a forensic investigation, but I tried with what I had

So far, it is the most trustworthy source. Certainly more trustworthy, as facts, than Kamila's lawyer. (I don't blame KV's lawyer, that's what lawyers do. She's doing it. Good for her. But it's not the best or last word on anything. )

The Associated Press confirmed that the document is authentic.

Two people with knowledge of the case told The Associated Press that a brief seen by the AP that was filed by the World Anti-Doping Agency in a hearing on Valieva's case was authentic. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because the document was not publicly available. WADA did not immediately respond to an email left by the AP asking for comment on the brief.

Kamila Valieva Listed Two Legal Oxygen Boosters on Olympic Forms, Documents Show

Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva listed two legal substances used to improve heart function on an anti-doping control form she filled out before her drug case at the Olympics erupted

www.nbcchicago.com

 

[TontoK]

@el henry I saw a recent interview with Kaitlin Osmond. I wish I could find it, because I think you'd enjoy it.

Essentially, she said in a judged sport, the athletes must put a great deal of trust in federations, judges, and other institutions to treat athletes fairly. The sport is built on foundations of fairness and trust. The clock can't decide the winner in figure skating like swimming or a track sport, so athletes absolutely rely on "fairness" as essential.

She's against Kamila's participation on these grounds. Fairness - she doped, she shouldn't be there - no matter what, end of story. By allowing her to compete, the ISU/IOC/WADA/Whoever is attacking the foundation of the sport - equal treatment of all athletes. The erosion of trust in governing officials will be much more damaging than whatever this competition is.

She expressed my own feelings, but with much more clarity and from a competitor's perspective.

 

[macy]

Larry Nassar got away with his repulsive behavior for so long exactly because these athletes are told not to question authority and become conditioned to think things that aren't normal are. The sad thing for me is that, regardless of what happens with Kamila, these Russian kids will continue to be doped.

absolutely. my point exactly.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I remember watching Kamila’s reaction to Anna’s skate last year at Russian nationals, and I was like boy, that is a girl who seems willing to do anything to win.

That's on way to look at it
I remember thinking maybe she expected to win but then she was about to come 2nd
and someone put a camera in her face so she was trying to force a "So happy for my
Oscar loss" Courteous smile but her timing was just a bit awkward.

 

[kenboy123]

Well, the other two substances aren't banned. It sure is a big coinkidink that Valieva also ended up drinking heart medication from her grandfather when she already was on two heart medications, though. After all, her team knew she was taking the other two - they were listed on the doping control form - so this isn't just a case of her somehow indulging in a heart medication cocktail via her grandpa

They aren't banned, but why does she need 3 different heart medications???...obviously she is trying to prop herself up using substances...

 

[kan01]

I understood that Sasha left Eteri for Plushenko because her father wanted to get her away from Eteri and her draconian methods. Sasha went back because Plushenko wanted her to cut down on the quads and concentrate more on choreography and Sasha didn't like that.

And because of the Eteri bonus. Mainly.