Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[skatedreamer]

@el henry I saw a recent interview with Kaitlin Osmond. I wish I could find it, because I think you'd enjoy it.

Essentially, she said in a judged sport, the athletes must put a great deal of trust in federations, judges, and other institutions to treat athletes fairly. The sport is built on foundations of fairness and trust. The clock can't decide the winner in figure skating like swimming or a track sport, so athletes absolutely rely on "fairness" as essential.

She's against Kamila's participation on these grounds. Fairness - she doped, she shouldn't be there - no matter what, end of story. By allowing her to compete, the ISU/IOC/WADA/Whoever is attacking the foundation of the sport - equal treatment of all athletes. The erosion of trust in governing officials will be much more damaging than whatever this competition is.

She expressed my own feelings, but with much more clarity and from a competitor's perspective.

The 1st paragraph says it all.

There's a link in this article that seems like the interview you mentioned but since it's from CBC, I can't access it in the US...

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winter/figure-skating/women-figure-skating-beijing-2022-day-11-1.6349513

 

[jenaj]

All of you and journalist forgot about presumption of innocence. You shame that girl without any proves. All you have is a words of the shameless journalists.
Doping is bad, but what all these WADA and USADA are doing, it is just a witch-hunt. Many innocent athletes are missing the competition, when the judges check their innocence. I’m happy that Kamila can skate now. And nobody for the moment can’t say, that she is guilty.

As I understand it, the athlete has the burden of proof in these cases. Also, in the US at least, there is no presumption of "innocence" in non-criminal cases.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

you are suggesting that trimetazidine would be good for the health of young athletes. Jesus Christ

I wouldn’t be so dismissive. I do think that we will see some trials in the coming years to see if drugs similar to TMZ which can improve cardiovascular function in elite athletes can be administered safely. It could be not only performance enhancing but as some theorize also offer increased health benefits for the athlete post workout and more importantly post retirement. The studies and clinical trials have not yet come to fruition but if sudden cardiac arrest among our young athletes continue to happen in the US at an alarming rate a market could become available for pharmaceutical companies. If that were to happen then I’d be more surprised if we don’t see something come to market. I bet there are a significant amount of doctors prescribing drugs off label right now to young athletes with heart conditions. I’d love to see a study on that if it exists.

This in no way excuses breaking current WADA rules. That is a different discussion. I’m just suggesting your dismissive take regarding athletes heart health and medications to treat and prevent it might not age well as science evolves. You may very well be right but I tend to keep an open mind when it comes to all things science and health.

 

[matin calin]

I've already mentioned it in the Ladies SP thread, but on Eurosport FR, the commentator said: "She is wonderful, but she should not be here, what a waste".

Ok, I don't see anything wrong with this comment, certainly it does not come anywhere near "disgust".

 

[millie]

Calm down a bit Not to pick up on you, but I think your posts are an example of how powerful the media is when it comes to generating and fuelling public outrage, the emotions take over all that is rational and sound.

No doping has been confirmed, as stated several times by the IOC spokesman Mark Adams. He more or less begged the journalists not to frame the situation as a confirmed doping case, since the investigation is still ongoing and not even the B-sample has been analysed yet (his words).

There was no disgust whatsoever expressed by the commentator on for example Eurosport (which is basically a no1 sport channel in Europe) who was praising Kamila as usual, the video can be easily found on YouTube. Neither there was any disgust directed to KV on Swedish TV. So please speak for your own country.

She failed the doping test because it was positive for TMZ. That’s doping! The public outrage is that a Russian figure skater had a positive test for TMZ and she was allowed to skate in the Olympics. Zero tolerance. Because she is a minor, they allowed her to skate but with no medal ceremony, Fact
NBC, CBC, CBS, CNN and Fox all these news agencies are crying foul, that a doped figure skater should not have skated in the Olympics. That’s where the problem arises, when people see no harm for athletes to dope. The Russian Skating Federation should be banned from the next Olympics to teach them a lesson. I thought they would have learned from the last Olympics when they had to skate under ROC but they continue to defy.
IOC member Denis Oswald confirmed the 15 year old skater explanation for her positive test for banned drug TMZ was “contamination which happened with a product her grandpa was taking”. This is a confirmation of Doping.

 

[Draculus]

Who of course has no intimate knowledge or exposure to cultures other than North America and the "West".

Is it common in the "West" to be proud if you do not cheat?

 

[Alchamei]

Are you people aware of how many Sochi athletes WADA and IOC disqualified, CAS annulled later. It is not that WADA is correct no matter what. To quote: 'All but one of these athletes appealed against their bans to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. On 1 February 2018 the court overturned the sanctions on 28 athletes meaning that their Sochi medals and results are reinstated, but decided that there was sufficient evidence against 11 athletes to uphold their Sochi sanctions.[20] On 24 September 2020 the court overturned the sanctions on 2 athletes meaning that their Sochi medals and results are reinstated, but decided that there was sufficient evidence against 1 athlete to uphold their Sochi sanctions.[21] The court also decided that none of the 42 athletes should be banned from all future Olympic Games, but only the 2018 Games.'
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics_medal_table).
And that was my point, to keep an open mind until the investigation is fully closed

But even if WADA is not correct all time, that doesn't change that the legal document is legit, does it?

 

[Skater Boy]

I know there is a lot of passion here. Ironically the casual Olympic or skating fan may not care so uc. and the louder the uproar and battles as to what happened, what should happen what will happen will only drive more people away frmo the sport. Please don't say I am trying to hid anything I am just saying. I respect the different views but in the end there are no real winners espcially the sport.

 

[Erin9]

She failed the doping test because it was positive for TMZ. That’s doping! The public outrage is that a Russian figure skater had a positive test for TMZ and she was allowed to skate in the Olympics. Zero tolerance. Because she is a minor, they allowed her to skate but with no medal ceremony, Fact
NBC, CBC, CBS, CNN and Fox all these news agencies are crying foul, that a doped figure skater should not have skated in the Olympics. That’s where the problem arises, when people see no harm for athletes to dope. The Russian Skating Federation should be banned from the next Olympics to teach them a lesson. I thought they would have learned from the last Olympics when they had to skate under ROC but they continue to defy.

Thing is all they really had to do was go by the ROC- instead of Russia. Couldn’t use their flag. That’s about it.

Why not keep doping? They got a slap on the wrist for it.

I tended to think it was unfair to punish athletes that had nothing to do with the doping the opportunity to ever compete in the Olympics- but the thing is- there really weren’t severe consequences for what they did.

 

[chuckm]

Is it common in the "West" to be proud if you do not cheat?

Vincent Zhou had to withdraw from the Men's event because he had CoVid. That was very sad for him, since this may be his last year in competitive figure skating. But he was invited to appear in the gala, based on his performance in the Team Event (for which he will eventually win a medal). He is back on the ice now, having tested negative for the virus. He has NEVER tested positive for any banned substance. I don't see why he wouldn't be proud of that.

Are Russians proud of cheating as long as they get away with it?

 

[el henry]

Is it common in the "West" to be proud if you do not cheat?

I don't know what the "West" is. I see other posters use it, and it puzzles me. Every single country west of the Prime Meridian? OK, then, I don't know what every single country west of the Prime Meridian thinks. That's why I put it in quotes.

Vincent said he competed "clean". In American English, it would be a common usage for athletes to say that they are proud they are clean. So yes, being proud of being clean is a good thing. I would hope it's a good thing throughout the world.

 

[kan01]

Is it common in the "West" to be proud if you do not cheat?

From Twitter:

my mom and i are watching olympic ice and they go “vincent zhou tested positive for covid and couldn’t compete” and my mom goes “if only he had tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, then he could’ve competed”

Let that sink in.

 

[Icey]

Caffeine enhances performance. Is it on the list?

 

[Erin9]

From Twitter:

my mom and i are watching olympic ice and they go “vincent zhou tested positive for covid and couldn’t compete” and my mom goes “if only he had tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, then he could’ve competed”

Let that sink in.

Indeed.

 

[Ducky]

Is it common in the "West" to be proud if you do not cheat?

As a very popular sports film trope involves an underdog team who plays fair and square winning against a stronger team that also cheats? Yes.

 

[Mathman]

I, too, have a question about the other (not banned) heart medications that Kamilla tested positive for. Since they are not proscribed by WADA, etc., I assume this means that it has been determined that they do not give an athlete an unfair advantage over his fellows and are not harmful in the short or long term to the user's health.

Am I right to regrad such drugs as being in the same category as vitamin pills, gatorade (advertised as helping you recover more quickly after an exhaustive effort) -- or for that matter, just a diet of healthy natural foods?

 

[Ducky]

Caffeine enhances performance. Is it on the list?

I hope not. Coffee is the only way I can get up in the morning.

 

[silveruskate]

Caffeine enhances performance. Is it on the list?

Stimulates nervous system, heart and muscles. NYT article tomorrow: Valieva takes 4 heart medications

 

[el henry]

Caffeine enhances performance. Is it on the list?

Why are you asking, since Kamila was not subject to suspension for use of caffeine? It doesn't matter if there are a million gazillion performance enhancing substances not on the list. You are subject to suspension for testing positive for the ones that are.

If you would like to petition WADA to include caffeine, there may be a process to do so

 

[matin calin]

She failed the doping test because it was positive for TMZ. That’s doping!

Well I choose to trust the authorities rather than Cnn or Fox news assessment that you refer to.
In response to a journalist that asked something about KV being "doped" Mark Adams said that so far they have only one doping incident at the Olympics, that with the Iranian alpine skier. He pleaded several times to refrain from using the word "doping" when talking about KV and explained that the investigation is ongoing and the B sample has not been analysed yet.
What will you say if it comes back negative or the IOC on any other ground establishes that there's been no doping violation and totally clears Kamila's name? I'd personally be a bit embarrassed for being so susceptible to the media driven drama and having an uncritical attitude. This is why I choose to wait until the investigation is completed.

And that was my point, to keep an open mind until the investigation is fully closed

Impossible apparently. Some must be having an uncontrollable rush to prosecute Kamila here and now. There's something medieval about it.
I personally would be glad it turns out to be some mistake (not associated with the grandpa) and if Kamila is exonerated. But then again, I was not fuelled up by the media like a pit bull before a dog fight, to the point where I am totally blinded by my anger and unreceptive to any counterarguments and undertones.