Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[grandmahorsey]

From Twitter:

my mom and i are watching olympic ice and they go “vincent zhou tested positive for covid and couldn’t compete” and my mom goes “if only he had tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, then he could’ve competed”

Let that sink in.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[Fanof]

Why are you asking, since Kamila was not subject to suspension for use of caffeine? It doesn't matter if there are a million gazillion performance enhancing substances not on the list. You are subject to suspension for testing positive for the ones that are.

If you would like to petition WADA to include caffeine, there may be a process to do so

Caffeine is not prohibited. Neither is nicotine.
"
Bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine: These substances are included in the 2022 Monitoring Program and are not considered Prohibited Substances."

 

[el henry]

I have a question about the other (not banned) heart medications that Kamilla tested positive for. Since they are not proscribed by WEADA, etc., I assume this means that it has been determined that they do not give an athlete an unfair advantage over his fellows and is not harmful in the short or long term to the user's health.

Am I right to regrad such drugs as being in the same category as vitamin pills, gatorade (advertised as helping you recover more quickly after an exhaustive effort) -- or for that matter, just a diet of healthy natural foods?

Theoretically, yes. WADA performs some sort to testing to determine the drugs on its list. Of course, some drugs are on the list as masking agents, and not because they in and of themselves offer benefits.

The other substances are not relevant to the ban. The only argument I could conceive would be, why is Kamila taking TMZ if she is already taking substances proven to enhance the cardiovascular system? But that is not relevant to a suspension or a ban, IMO.

There has been deflection (in my opinion) oh, these other drugs aren't drugs or oh, they're not really heart medications, to somehow undercut the finding that Kamila did test positive for a banned substance. Or as I like to say, oh look a squirrel!

 

[Flutzel]

What will you say if it comes back negative or the IOC on any other ground establishes that there's been no doping violation and totally clears Kamila's name? I'd personally be a bit embarrassed for being so susceptible to the media driven drama and having an uncritical attitude. This is why I choose to wait until the investigation is completed.

Well, I'd probably wonder if the Russian officials are drilling pee-providing holes in lab walls again, tbh, considering they've already done that for another Olympics.

 

[Fanof]

Well I choose to trust the authorities rather than Cnn or Fox news assessment that you refer to.
In response to a journalist that asked something about KV being "doped" Mark Adams said that so far they have only one doping incident at the Olympics, that with the Iranian alpine skier. He pleaded several times to refrain from using the word "doping" when talking about KV and explained that the investigation is ongoing and the B sample has not been analysed yet.
What will you say if it comes back negative or the IOC on any other ground establishes that there's been no doping violation and totally clears Kamila's name? I'd personally be a bit embarrassed for being so susceptible to the media driven drama and having an uncritical attitude. This is why I choose to wait until the investigation is completed.

Impossible apparently. Some must be having an uncontrollable rush to prosecute Kamila here and now. There's something medieval about it.
I personally would be glad it turns out to be some mistake (not associated with the grandpa) and if Kamila is exonerated. But then again, I was not fuelled up by the media like a pit bull before a dog fight, to the point where I am totally blinded by my anger and unreceptive to any counterarguments and undertones.

I don't think that's the reason.
In my opinion, the reason for anger is that (it is said that) there is always a provisional suspension, and too bad for the athlete if he is cleared afterwards. You can think this rule is unfair, but can anyone remember a provisional suspension lifted for fear of irreparable harm?

 

[Zora]

Caffeine enhances performance. Is it on the list?

It used to be to a certain degree.

 

[Icey]

So little Tara is outraged.

 

[Mathman]

To me it seems like the business about the other heart drugs is being used to paint an unflattering picture of the skater as being a person who stuffs herself with artificial aids to performance willi-niili.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Theoretically, yes. WADA performs some sort to testing to determine the drugs on its list. Of course, some drugs are on the list as masking agents, and not because they in and of themselves offer benefits.

Just to clarify ... I’m fairly certain WADA relies on pharmaceutical companies to determine which drugs are performance enhancing. I believe Pfizer determines which performance enhancing substances are allowed, banned, or may be eligible to be exempt via TUE and even develops the tests to identify them in athlete samples.

Willing to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood something along the way. I don’t think WADA actually has any laboratories it operates as no even relies on the national doping associations to perform all tests. WADA does have the authority and responsibility to accredit national laboratories.

WADA signs a global collaboration agreement with Pfizer Inc.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is pleased to announce the signing of a long-term global agreement with Pfizer Inc. that will allow Pfizer to share information on pipeline products that have a potential for athletic performance misuse, and in parallel allow WADA to exchange information with...

www.wada-ama.org

I believe this is still the way it operates.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Starting from participating in senior test skates last season despite being too young till this Olympics episode, it’s mind blowing how much special treatment Kamila has received. Eteri has certainly worked a lot to make her Olympic champion.

For sure, it certainly makes a mockery of Team Crystal's claim they treat all girls the same.

They're more than willing to throw Sasha's and Anna's Olympic moments under the bus to cater to Kamila.

Perhaps this is guilt because they've been doping her without her knowledge like some science experiment. On the one hand that's horrific, on the other hand at least it would mean the rest of the Crystal girls are clean.

 

[Mathman]

Anyway, IMHO it is too lete now to slavage the situation. Figure skating will just have to bind up its wounds and soldier on as best it can.

What if Anna Shcherbakova gets second place, and then 6 months form now they decide to award her a gold medal. Shje didn't win it on the ice, but rather by an administrative and legal procedure. I am crestfallen over the whole thing. I am not even going to get up at 5:00 AM tomaorrow morning to watch the free skate.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

If the doping is found at the Olympics, then the disqualification is automatic. This case is different, though, because it is an old test and she has had two clean after that. The WADA lab is also at fault for delaying the result, and thus denying Kamila the chance for defense and Rusfed the chance to send another athlete. So this case is not directly comparable to others. All cases are different and the devil is in the details.

Very informative and insightful observation here.

 

[matin calin]

In my opinion, the reason for anger is that (it is said that) there is always a provisional suspension, and too bad for the athlete if he is cleared afterwards. You can think this rule is unfair, but can anyone remember a provisional suspension lifted for fear of irreparable harm?

In my opinion not imposing provisional suspension on KV is a giant disservice to her and her coaches, since it caused so much controversy and attracted unprecedented attention. Now KV and Eteri are hated and/or ridiculed, even in Russia after the grandpa story came out, internationally all their talents are belittled, their achievements have lost any value, their reputation is in shambles. A skater of incredible talent has been made a face of Russian doping. That's what I call irreparable harm.

We also don't know which impact it will have on KV as an individual and as a skater, given that she's very young and vulnerable. Julia Lipnitskaja broke down totally due to the overwhelming positive attention after her Olympics.

I am afraid Kamila is done. Thanks to the "gift" of letting her compete. In my opinion this decision was not taken in her best interests, rather the opposite.

 

[Oreo]

Very informative and insightful observation here.

Except the Swedish lab did not receive the sample until almost four weeks after it was taken at Russian Nationals and the sample was not marked urgent. Why was this?

 

[Amei]

To me it seems like the business about the other heart drugs is being used to paint an unflattering picture of the skater as being a person who stuffs herself with artificial aids to performance willi-niili.

Or it was leaked to poke a hole in the accidental ingestion theory.

 

[matin calin]

Or it was leaked to poke a hole in the accidental ingestion theory.

Depends on how you look at it. Some will argue that if she is already on a legal medication that promotes oxygen flow to the heart (not L-carnithine of course, but the other one, i forgot the name) and the one she duly reported - what's the point of consuming a banned medication that has more or less the same effect? Not sure if it makes sense medically and if not, this argument can be used in her defence.

 

[flotsam]

In my opinion this decision was not taken in her best interests, rather the opposite.

Very little, if any, of what we've discussed in this extensive thread seems like it was in Kamila's best interests.

 

[cathlen]

It used to be to a certain degree.

Caffeine has mild diuretic effect as well. So I'm not suprised.

To me it seems like the business about the other heart drugs is being used to paint an unflattering picture of the skater as being a person who stuffs herself with artificial aids to performance willi-niili.

I'm suprised so many people act like L-carnitine is some "drug". It's very common susbtance to improve your metabolism, very popular in suplements to lose weight if you train. I remember my mom drinking teas with it to help her lose weight, though my mom didn't train and there was hardly any effect. I guess the effect depends on dosage? Do we know if it was high?

 

[Tavi...]

So now because of NYT they're all spinning L-Carnitine as heart medication. We don't know why she took L-Carnitine when it's a common supplement but they want to make it sound like a cocktail of heart drugs, shoddy journalism knew it. Not to mention the only source is somebody against Kamila that is leaking against WADA rules against a minor.

It's not difficult to argue that US media in particular is trying to brief against her. Johnny/Tara desperately trying to wash their hands clean perpetuated it.

It’s a little odd that you keep accusing the New York Times and other US media for causing all of Kamila’s problems. Her problem is that she tested positive, not what people are saying. She hasn’t denied testing positive and her mother has offered a pretty implausible suggestion as to the reason why.

This article includes comments by the US anti-doping chief. Among other things, he states that (1) the amount of TMZ found was not minuscule; (2) the offered excuse, “seems to be seriously undermined” by her use of the two legal substances — because it’s unlikely that the use of a third substance that serves a similar purpose would be accidental and coincidental,” and (3) USADA has previously tried to have hypoxen banned.

'Serious questions’ raised about Kamila Valieva's ‘grandfather’ excuse

Kamila Valieva's 'grandfather' explanation is a 'long shot,' according to USA's anti-doping chief.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[el henry]

Just to clarify ... I’m fairly certain WADA relies on pharmaceutical companies to determine which drugs are performance enhancing. I believe Pfizer determines which performance enhancing substances are allowed, banned, or may be eligible to be exempt via TUE and even develops the tests to identify them in athlete samples.

Willing to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood something along the way. I don’t think WADA actually has any laboratories it operates as no even relies on the national doping associations to perform all tests. WADA does have the authority and responsibility to accredit national laboratories.

WADA signs a global collaboration agreement with Pfizer Inc.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is pleased to announce the signing of a long-term global agreement with Pfizer Inc. that will allow Pfizer to share information on pipeline products that have a potential for athletic performance misuse, and in parallel allow WADA to exchange information with...

www.wada-ama.org

I believe this is still the way it operates.

Thank you for the information Sam and good to see you again!

That makes sense, no agency would have the laboratory equipment or expertise necessary.