Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[anonymoose_au]

You can come up with a better analogy than that, I hope

How do you mean? This happens all the time, most people aren't caught red handed, they're tracked down later with evidence.

Some crimes have a statue of limitations, but I don't think there's one on having a positive test, or if there is it's not 2 months. Athletes who gave samples 10 years ago are getting caught and been required to return their medals.

 

[Artistry]

Anything they night say -- anything! - would just cause the guns to be turned in their direction. Like, Where did Zagitova get that super-human endurance that allowed her to backload all those jumps?!

No, the best response, politically speaking: "I know nothing."

Exactly what I was thinking!

 

[Bentley]

Not according to the Olympic Gold Medal that Tara displays on her mantle

Just saying. Believe I have heard at least a thousand times, that Kwan should have won the gold.
In reality Tara out skated Kwan and the Joy and exuberance she had in skating was hard to miss.
As a Skater, I thought Tara was great, as a commentator not so much.

 

[WeakAnkles]

BUT... she is clean now so what difference does it make NOW ??

That's appalling.

 

[Mathman]

Just saying. Believe I have heard at least a thousand times, that Kwan should have won the gold.

This, however, has nothing in common with the current case. The dispute between Michelle fans and Tara fans was simply about whose skating do like more?

 

[WeakAnkles]

Most democratic countries have quite lenient libel laws ( for good reason) . So, they can be sued but they are unlikely to suffer consequences unless it can be proven that they published something false on purpose.

Not only publishing "something false on purpose," it also, at least in the US, has to be proved it was published with malicious intent.

Ask Sarah Palin.

 

[VickB]

Olympics where a skater caught doping is allowed to skate anyway is unacceptable. Part of the fallout from that is the elimination of the medal ceremon(ies) which hurts lots of skaters who didn't dope as well as the doper. Remember it's not just the women's event which is affected---it's the team event as well.

There can't be a medal ceremony because no final decision has been reached as yet about punishment for the doping. It could be that Valieva will not be allowed to receive medals for both women and team event. And it still could be theoretically possible that she will receive as little as a reprimand, so all those duplicate medals would be irrelevant. And doubling up on medals sure can't work for the team event because there are multiple medalwinners on each of the top teams.

The IOC certainly would not agree with massive double medaling anyway. That action in 2002 was done for one pair team in one event because of all the adverse publicity about possible judge manipulation.

I think it is going to get very ugly very quickly ....

NBC is probably going to make serious comments against the
Russians.

Now the Olympic official website is commenting on the top of the site.

 

[Mathman]

Not only publishing "something false on purpose," it also, at least in the US, has to be proved it was published with malicious intent.

Ask Sarah Palin.

The funny thing about the Sarah Palin v. the New York Times case was that the judge decided to throw out the case right in the middle of the jury's deliberation. The jury learned about this, but they were instructed to go on deliberating anyway and come up with a verdict, even though their verdict would be throw out if if wasn't the right one. If I were on the jury I would be mad a hell at being hu,miliated like that.

 

[el henry]

Maybe google isn’t such a good place to educate yourself on things either. I’d be curious as to where you learned that taking TMZ makes you able to practice 12 hrs a day for example. Here is what one expert (cardiologist) has said regarding TMZ and it’s unknown yet potential to be a performance enhancing substance.


I’ll post the link to the whole story if you are interested but my point remains that without major studies having been conducted on TMZ in elite athletes I would suspect an expert would take a much more nuanced approach and refrain from interjecting hyperbolic speculation as it pertains to the actual effects and or duration of those effects.

One must pause and take note that the two leading side effects of TMZ are dizziness and loss of balance. I’d think the possibility that TMZ could just as easily reduce a critical practice as much as it could extend one is pertinent information based on empirical scientific data.

NPR NEWS ARTICLE LINK HERE

And you found this NPR article presumably through Google? I think Dr. dePasquale explains well why this drug is not approved in the USA, let alone available as an over the counter drug. And that is all.

Here are more physicians speaking about the effects of Trimetazidine:

"If you're in a highly exertional sport, where you're using a lot of energy and you're putting your heart under significant stress, it certainly could help your heart function better theoretically," MedStar Georgetown University Hospital medical toxicology physician Kelly Johnson-Arbor told the newswire.

What is the banned drug trimetazidine taken by Russian skater Kamila Valieva?

Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva, a favorite to win gold in the women’s figure skating competition at the Beijing Olympics 2022, has been at the center of a doping controversy.Valiev…

thehill.com

“Trimetazidine helps the cells in the heart maintains their energy metabolism in the event of a reduced oxygen supply, increasing the efficiency of blood flow and hence improving endurance,” said Dr. Bradley Katz, a professor and physician at the University of Utah Medical Center and CEO of Axon Optics.

Katz said trimetazidine could theoretically improve heart function in athletes, especially in endurance sports when athletes are exerting a lot of energy.

Healthline: Medical information and health advice you can trust.

We're committed to being your source for expert health guidance. Come to us in your pursuit of wellness.

www.healthline.com

"TMZ can be used by athletes to improve physical efficiency, especially in the case of endurance sports," explained a 2014 study, which looked at Polish athletes who had been caught taking the drug. WADA has listed trimetazidine as a banned substance since 2014, and athletes are prohibited from using it at all times. The drug is typically prescribed for people with angina, or chest pain that results from reduced blood flow to the heart

Here's Why Trimetazidine Is Banned From Olympic Sports

Trimetazidine is a metabolic modulator banned by the World Anti-Doping Association due to its ability to increase blood-flow efficiency.

www.popsugar.com

And from skaters themselves about "endurance doping"




I don't understand the rush to excuse taking this banned substance. But, the excuses don't matter. The taking of it does.

 

[Decoder]

True.

In fact, the U.S. public does not care much about the winter Olympics at all any more.

NBC’s Winter Olympics ratings are barreling toward a historic low

NBC is hoping to make up for lower ad rates by airing the games on more platforms, including TikTok and Peacock

nationalpost.com

Well, it is not 100% true. The US media cares about this "scandal" very much, it seems to me. I'm sure they won't care that much anymore in a couple of weeks, or even days. I agree with you that the public is not as hungry as the media.

 

[WeakAnkles]

The funny thing about the Sarah Palin v. the New York Times case was that the judge decided to throw out the case right in the middle of the jury's deliberation. The jury learned about this, but they were instructed to go on deliberating anyway and come up with a verdict, even though their verdict would be throw out if if wasn't the right one. If I were on the jury I would be mad a hell at being hu,miliated like that.

Well she can always appeal.

 

[4everchan]

Well apart from dealing with scrutiny, now they'll have to adjust to the probable new age of eligibility.

falsification of birth certificate can also happen... Of course, talking about new athletes not yet on the radar... it's been done before

 

[el henry]

Well, it is not 100% true. The US media cares about this "scandal" very much, it seems to me, in the last several days. I'm sure they won't care that much anymore in a couple of weeks, or even days. I agree with you that the public is not as hungry as the media.

The US media, and Americans in general, care about doping. They do not like doping and they tend not to excuse it. This is not a media fed craze, and if folks outside America are being told that, they are being lied to. I cannot tell you how many of my friends and family who don't care about skating, have asked me about this. (ETA: because they know I do care about skating ) And it's not because they love the media or being misled by the media that they are asking me.

Oh they don't like us, oh they're out to get us, oh it shouldn't be banned, oh it doesn't have an effect. Americans have heard it many times for many athletes, American or not, and most fans/general public are not real big on the excuses. So the more there are excuses, instead of consequences, the more the story flourishes.

Americans would not have cared about Kamila Valieva or known her name if she scored 400 points at the Olympics. They do now. And that is the result of the positive test.

 

[Mathman]

Well, it is not 100% true. The US media cares about this "scandal" very much, it seems to me. I'm sure they won't care that much anymore in a couple of weeks, or even days. I agree with you that the public is not as hungry as the media.

My impression is that the news media is always on the lookout for something to get outraged about, in the hope that a lurid headline will capture some reader's attention.

 

[skatedreamer]

My impression is that the news media is always on the lookout for something to get outraged about, in the hope that a lurid headline will capture some reader's attention.

well...some publications, certainly. Not the more serious ones like the NY Times, Washington Post, Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune etc. That said, I wouldn't vouch for USA Today or a NY tabloid that I've already growled about too much...

 

[el henry]

My impression is that the news media is always on the lookout for something to get outraged about, in the hope that a lurid headline will capture some reader's attention.

I certainly believe clickbait exists.

Judging from the statistically meaningful group "my family and friends", this story is not a clickbait driven craze.
Very sensible people in that group, who don't have time or patience for clickbait, have read about the story, posted on social media about the story, and even been so desperate to ask me about the story

Of course, any data derived from "my family and friends" is incontrovertible.

 

[Ganya]

If you test positive for banned drugs, whether it’s at the European Nations or in Beijing, it’s still doping. She was tested on Dec. 25 after the European Nationals, they were late in sending the sample and it wasn’t labeled Urgent. It’s not different rules, Doping is still Doping in sports. Not because a person isn’t doping this week and don’t get a positive but Doped last month and tested positive.

I do realize that doping is still doping...but could anyone plz explain where you got these 'Russia being late in sending the sample' ideas from?

 

[Decoder]

The US media, and Americans in general, care about doping. They do not like doping and they tend not to excuse it. This is not a media fed craze, and if folks outside America are being told that, they are being lied to. I cannot tell you how many of my friends and family who don't care about skating, have asked me about this. (ETA: because they know I do care about skating ) And it's not because they love the media or being misled by the media that they are asking me.

Oh they don't like us, oh they're out to get us, oh it shouldn't be banned, oh it doesn't have an effect. Americans have heard it many times for many athletes, American or not, and most fans/general public are not real big on the excuses. So the more there are excuses, instead of consequences, the more the story flourishes.

Americans would not have cared about Kamila Valieva or known her name if she scored 400 points at the Olympics. They do now. And that is the result of the positive test.

I have been trying to avoid arguing with people in this thread, I only care about facts. I am not a lawyer, I only had some experiences sitting in grand jury, and the most import instruction I got is: facts!

I had the impression that your worked for some law firm? Well, looks like you yourself is probably not a lawyer, because you have been speculating a lot, and you don't really care about "due process" and "Innocent Until Proven Guilty". So l am not going to engage here. I'll wait for the facts.

 

[doreen95]

BUT... she is clean now so what difference does it make NOW ??

She was found to be a doper so she should be suspended.

 

[Imagine]

From what we know publically, Kamila is very unlikely to win her case. I'm really baffled why someone hasn't intervened and told her to pull out.

Because it's also possible that she'll get off with a slap on the wrist due to her age, hilarious grandpa defense or not? The state-sponsored doping program found a loophole, and old habits die hard. They just couldn't resist exploiting it, spitting in the face of the ISU, WADA, and the IOC, who didn't have the balls to ban Russia outright. It's no coincidence that amongst the 3 Olympians and the various also-rans (Russians or not) over the season, Valieva's the one who returns a positive test. I'm not arguing that others dope, or that they don't dope, because you'd have to to be an idiot to assert either view with no evidence. I'm just saying that in my opinion, this shows how confident they were in being able to dope Valieva so blatantly, and get away with it off of technicalities. Whether or not they succeed, we shall see. And speaking of the nebulous "they" in this case, I can only laugh at the people who seem to think that this all begins and ends with Eteri. If it's just Eteri who is the big bad, then there is some hope that this could be easily resolved and prevented in the future. If only. There is a version of the universe, more lilkely than you may think, in which Eteri has no say in these matters. She may be this intense lady with the hate-able persona, and fabulous handbags, but she is just a state employee at the end of the day. People seem to be mistaking the image she projects on the international stage for actual, concrete, decision-making powers at home. Don't be fooled. Russia at the highest levels has a long history of doing this kind of stuff, and they have many tools at their disposal. The "protected person" clause is just the latest one, courtesy of WADA. If the precedent is set in this case that being 15 gets you a free pass, then there will surely be cases long after Eteri is gone. And they'll do it outside of figure skating too. They just have too little regard for the rules not to, especially if the rules are so stupidly written. At the end of the day, people can can continue to speculate on Eteri, the doctor, the state-sponsored doping operation, Kamila's grandpa...but all of that is meaningless. What we do know for sure is that this happened because WADA wrote this loophole into their code. This happened because the IOC got cute with the whole OAR/ROC thing, instead of taking a real stance. This happened because the ISU didn't have the foresight to raise the age floor (which I personally never agreed with, but now realize is a necessity if only because of this specific situation). It's the incompetence of these organizations collectively that has enabled this situation today, and it's ultimately their fault that the athletes—Kamila and her competitors both—will suffer. Happy Beijing 2022. Best. Olympics. Ever.