Axel Lasso Lift in the Pairs' SP- Accident Prone, or just plain tough?

[blue dog]

Gone are the days when the pair can select the lift they will perform in the short program. Nowadays, the lift we see in the pairs' SP is the axel lasso lift, where the woman looks like she is about to enter a throw double axel, and the woman rotates on the way up:

http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/pairs/recog_p_lifts_grp_5.htm

It seems that many of the pairs utilize the same position for this lift:

Kawaguchi/Smirnov:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=imxrnTTBZZk

Mukhortova/Trankov:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cte0V9St2Ws

Savchenko/Szolkowy (I like their spread eagle entrance):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nP95QCEqHeE

McLaughlin/Brubaker:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SMQ9vaRQytE

Of course, unlike other lifts (chair; loop), this one seems to have a lot more accidents:

Totmianina/Marinin (2004):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YfX-sPtVCmg

Vega/Alexander (1993):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8qtVaUnfd80

Obertas/Palamarchuk (2000):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=r0miZ19amBk

My queries are-- 1. Is there a way to make this lift more creative? It seems that many of them utilize the same basic position (except for Zhang/Zhang: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZCIZyI4W1jA who use an inverted star right before the dismount)

2. Is there a way to minimize the danger in this lift? What is causing the danger on this particular lift?

3. Why is the ISU demanding that all pairs use this lift? Can they not get the same levels on another lift?

 

[Tonichelle]

Even though it's a freaky lift, I love the entrance and every part of the lift when it's done right...

 

[dorispulaski]

The first position is formulaic-however, the pairs can and do add a second position (or positions) or a carry or a different dismount to vary the look. In the SP, they don't have to, and as it's a dangerous lift, they often don't.

Inoue and Baldwin change positions in the lift, for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJpRGkFZV1s

Next year, it will be a different lift in the SP, in any case.
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-178078-195296-111175-0-file,00.pdf

page 92, Next year it will be a Group 3 lift in the SP (Hip Lift take Off)


Here's Skate Canada's description of the lasso lift:

http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/skate_for_life/know_your_skating/glossary/

Hand to Hand Lasso Type Lifts
The difference between the hand to hand pressure lifts and these lifts is that in hand to hand lasso type lifts, the female rotates on her way to the top of the lift. The same is also, generally, true for the dismount. What makes this type of lift difficult is that a good portion of the lift is pressed to the top with the use of only one arm of the man. The added torque created by the rotation of the female to the top of the lift also adds difficulty to these lifts, in particular on the Lasso lift. The lifts belonging to this group include: toe overhead lift, step overhead lift,

.....

Lasso lift
The Lasso lift is the most difficult of the hand to hand Lasso type lifts. When it is properly done, the female will take-off from a clean forward outside edge, directly beside the male, rotate one full rotation around the male, and end up on top of the lift facing the same direction as the male. Many skaters when attempting this lift rotate almost to backwards, prior to taking off for the lift. When this occurs, they are no longer performing a Lasso lift, but a step overhead. The Lasso lift take-off should resemble that of an Axel jump.

The degree of difficulty on all hand to hand Lasso type lifts is increased by the position of the lady, changes in position during the lift, release of grip, variation in dismount. Some common variations include a reverse star position, step through, change to platter. Teams will often also include flip or toss dismounts from the overhead lifts. Any flip or toss dismount can add difficulty to a lift, so long as it is cleanly executed and well controlled throughout the movement and into the landing.
...

One Hand Lasso Type Lifts
.... The beginning of the lift is as in the previous group of lifts. When the female reaches full extension the partners release one hand at the top of the lift and continue the lift with one hand only. All one hand Lasso type lifts are included in this group.

I like the axel lasso lift! I just hope no one has an accident!

 

[blue dog]

I agree with you two--it's one of the cooler looking lifts. Many fans who don't really know the difference between an axel lasso and an overhead can't really see the subtle difficulty of this lift (which seems like one of the more dangerous lifts).

Perhaps they can add more dismount variations--the twist dismount is one, and the swinging dismount that Michkoutienok/Dmitriev do in one of their lifts (it's not done on an axel lasso lift, but instead a step overhead, but it looks like can be done -- it happens at 3:40 in the vid):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1Z4zeGn8IFE

Next year, it will be a different lift in the SP, in any case.
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-178078-195296-111175-0-file,00.pdf

page 92, Next year it will be a Group 3 lift in the SP (Hip Lift take Off)

Doris, those lifts are beautiful, and perhaps less difficult in their nature. Therefore, I think we will see some wacky variations to add difficulty to the simple star lift:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LO895I2ig_Y

 

[blue dog]

I was looking through youtube, and with the exception of Prokuronova and Stefl ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=wRlY4khTw1k ), a majority of the pairs lift accidents have been on the axel lasso lift. I wonder if this is the physics of the lift, with the woman already gaining momentum as she is going up onto the lift, and the man having to fight that forward momentum as he is pressing her up, which may cause an imbalance, and then a fall...

 

[dorispulaski]

If you check the ESPN coverage of Totmianina & Marinin's accident at Skate America in 2005, they had Peter Carruthers talking about the problems and dangers of the axel lasso lift. Peter, as a silver medalist in pairs, should surely know what he is talking about here. AFAIR, he said that if the trick is not done just right, the lady pulls the man off balance, just as if she were a sail. I'll see whether I can find a video clip of it.

In fact, it's the clip you posted blue dog, at the top of the thread. Pull the bar over to about the 4 minute mark and Peter discusses exactly what the problems are with this lift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfX-sPtVCmg

He also mentions that both skaters start forward, which is always a problem due to the toepick, as well as the problem with the rotation going up, so that the woman acts like a sail.