Compulsory Dance (merged threads)

[Ladskater]

I am a crazy fan you see, CDs are, IMO, the most important part in ice dance. Either you can do them, either you can't and thus I judge everything according to that.

V&M usually have a good posture, which is way easy when you can mask this in something you know that will do the trick.
That's something you cannot do in CDs. And that tells me they have a bad postures. And sometimes in their FD of the year, you can spot moment when she should watch her posture and their leg match.

3 years ago, B&A had the same problem then they problably set their effort on it and the year after at least the posture was there. They're still lacking in raw power and regularity, but at least they improved on that very important criteria. Still having them as world champions would still be a big stepback IMO. They still lack the inventivness and the momentum to influence the other skaters. Without a decent choreographer, they'll never have it.

If you want to see really bad posture, Fraser is the worst of them all. she skates like a horse. A bit like Grushina did and got rewarded for anyway so who knows
The best has to go to Domnina / Shabalin.

Tracy Wilson thinks B&A may have already lost the world title because of their fall. She should know.

 

[sillylionlove]

I think B/A might not win but they will get a medal!!

 

[all that]

??? Was I watching the same program as you? This makes no sense

What doesn't make sense? To get three spots, the placements of two Canadian teams have to add up to 13. Therefore, even if V&M win the competition, either H-M/C or W/P have to end up in 12th place for Canada to maintain 3 spots. That doesn't seem likely at the moment.

 

[npa]

MarieM - i very happy, that we have very good specialist at this forum I wright letter to ISU - why they didnt invite you tho this WCh like a judge ar technical specialisr? :chorus:

 

[dwiggin3]

Davis and White are the most talented of all these teams. He is the best partner and the best male dancer since ... Dean.
The problem with Igor is that he lacks a vision, and all his teams are just doing the same old **** from one year to the other.
And with those two, I am going to bite. There is so much to exploit, from her face that looks like a mischivious elf to his angel like quality. Any good choreographer could use this. Instead of doing a generic blah program that has no meaning and no purpose than to deliver the tricks. They, nonetheless, tend to give more connection than any of his other team just because these kids think.

Virtue and Moir are excellent junior skaters that still have to move one notch to the top. Get them a decent choreographer.

I will agree with you on one thing :K&N need to work more their basic skating skills, more exactly, they have to show them in their programs. They are better skaters all around, they just are in the classic russian situation where you state : "hey look at what we can do and bring". I just hope they don't stay in that phase like Domnina Shabalin did.

I have to agree with you about D/W. I thought there dance was wonderful and have no idea why they're so low in the standings. There is so much talent there - their look alone lends itself to dance. I don't think they're being pushed to their full potential with Igor and training with B/A.....I think the stoplight is on B/A and D/W are suffering training wise. I think if they were not so close in terms of training, location, coaches etc, D/W would be gaining faster if not overtake B/A.

V/M...I find them boring. Yes, nice technique but no life to them whatsoever. I don't get the fanfair.

 

[npa]

Nathalie (and Fabian) work with a designer team that really gets what should flow or not on the ice, adding the modernity Nathalie wants for her program. This kid really is brilliant in that regard..

I didnt want to say this, but did you hear, what specialist thinking about them? Tarasova was in shock, that they have so hifg mark - she sad, that theere technick is very weak (especially his)/ She sad, that they didnt skate - they are matching across of the ice.
But i understand - who is Tarasova for you - best ice-dance specialist

 

[sillylionlove]

V/M...I find them boring. Yes, nice technique but no life to them whatsoever. I don't get the fanfair.

I have to agree with you here. I love B/A but D/W are awesome. Still I miss Melissa and Denis!!

 

[dwiggin3]

I think B/A might not win but they will get a medal!!

I think they may have to not only skate their best programs in the OD/FD, they'll need help in teh form of falls from others. Shame.

I still CAN NOT understand why D/W are so low. Nor can I understand the hype about V/M. I know they're good for their age etc. but I don't think they're better than D/W or B/A or most of the folks sitting under them. In fact, I call them bland...bland like chicken and rice.

 

[npa]

I think they may have to not only skate their best programs in the OD/FD, they'll need help in teh form of falls from others. Shame.

I still CAN NOT understand why D/W are so low. Nor can I understand the hype about V/M. I know they're good for their age etc. but I don't think they're better than D/W or B/A or most of the folks sitting under them. In fact, I call them bland...bland like chicken and rice.

:chorus:You are right
Go Tessa and Scott! Good luck!
Good luck to all skaters - Meril and Charlie, Isa and Oly, Tanith and Ben and al,all!:agree:

 

[Spun Silver]

I'm going to do a ladies' costume commentary- because isn't that just as important as the skating?

B/A- One of my favorite costumes of the day- why couldn't she have worn that for the tango last year- loved, loved, loved the feathery hair ornament- she looked so sophisticated.

D/S- I really liked this dress last year on Isabelle- really thought the back was cool and dramatic- with the jeweled strap running vertically down the back. Simple yet with a touch of unusual.

V/M- Nice red dress- nothing too out of the ordinary though. Showed Tessa's figure off really well. (Scott had the best expression and performance quality of all of the male dancers today.)

F/S- Strong dancing but dress was only so-so. Basic black with some sparkly edges.

P/B- Nice flowy romantic tango dress with dots- this dress looked like she could have worn it out on the street. Natalie has some of the most elegant costuming in the ice dance ranks and nice long lines to show them off.

K/N- Red velvety dress- I love the choice of material reminded me a bit of Anjelika Krylova's to-die-for red velvet tango dress.

D/W- I liked the super cool black sheer sleeves and gloves all in one. She looked very sophisticated. (Oh and no one better get on Charlie White's bad side- hilarious smouldering expression on his face as he was trying to figure out where their marks were going to place them.)

My favorite costume was Sinead Kerr's. I thought she looked like a million dollars. Or... maybe it wasn't her costume but her hairdo and smoldering eyes. Whatever. They both looked fabulous.

 

[all that]

I still CAN NOT understand why D/W are so low.

One of the reasons they are so low is that they are not as good as the skaters above them. As I have discussed in previous posts, they have issues they need to work on, such as posture, lines, matching movement, expression, etc. Their edge quality needs a bit of work (look at the slow motion replay of their AT, and you will see how much snow is kicking up off their blades). They have tremendous potential, and they have also improved a great deal since last season. I think a summer working on the basics (like B&A did this past summer) will do them a great deal of good.

 

[backoutsideedge]

I would disagree on Samuelson and Bates sorry. She has the same posture problems as Tessa, and their skating isn't on the same tracks as far as I can tell...
All these skaters need is classical dance lessons for a while and video to work on their legs alignement.

I'm sorry but Tessa Virtue has great posture and to state otherwise is absolutely ridiculous and downright shows incredible bias on your part. She has had a tremendous amount of ballet and modern dance training including time at the National Ballet of Canada. Great posture, contant toe point,

Have you seen the British Eurosport commentary? Chris and Nicky thought they had the best dance out there.

 

[backoutsideedge]

Watch at nearly all the lifts performed these past 4 years. All of them or most are taken from any of team Muriel Zazoui trains ... Only the italians try to bring in something else as well as Khoklova / Novitski these past two years.

Uh, Virtue & Moir brought in Cirque de Soleil last summer to help with their lifts and create new ones.

We know you think Zazoui is the second coming of dance coaches and that the French teams can do no wrong, but please get your facts straight before posting inaccurate information.

 

[MarieM]

I didnt want to say this, but did you hear, what specialist thinking about them? Tarasova was in shock, that they have so hifg mark - she sad, that theere technick is very weak (especially his)/ She sad, that they didnt skate - they are matching across of the ice.
But i understand - who is Tarasova for you - best ice-dance specialist

Tarassova, you mean the lady I saw and heard tell the judges how wonderfull the scrappy technique of the ukrainians was ? That they deserved to be ahead of a team much better than them because Elena was a model skater ? That the fact they were pouring snow all around was because they were skating so much faster ? I don't give a **** about what she says in public, she is a talented political liar. And I admire that in her. She can have genius ideas of how to mask a skater's defaults. And that magic touch sometimes work, sometimes it's bullshit.
Tarassova is biased toward the french, althought she's getting a lot better with Isabelle lately despite all she did to hinder them since 2002.

As for P&B, Fabian is still recovering from his knee injury, and I agree he is not at his best at all. The judges didn't give them that good marks compared to what they could claim, and they are not that ahead of D&W which means the computer draw was in their favor, it could have been the other way around, and I wouldn't have minded it a single second.
Fabian's technique is way better than Nathalie's. In Training sessions If only he could, once in his life, hold his nerves (praying there).

backoutsideedge : in the tango, Tessa has a bad posture, her back is nowhere near where it should be. She looks cranky (and I lack the english word to say it : voutée) while in the polka I saw from a previous event she was way better. In terms of steps and flow, if you forget the upper body, I agree with Chris and Nikki they were the best. Overall they were not. They lack the finesse and I say it again the meaning of the dance and the maturity.
Anyway, the only teams that have that maturity right now are Belbin/Agosto and Delobel/Schoenfelder. So they'll gain that.

As for the lifts, the best creativeness I saw was from Marie and Patch work. They are incredible when they create them, with such difficulty that few can do them and the risks are way too big. I hope they'll continue to do some choreography for others so that I'll have the pleasure to watch some of that inventivness.
Muriel has little to do with lifts, she intervenes with the levels that's it. The ideas usually come from the choreographers, the skaters of the assistant coach.
Virtue and Moir are still babies in that regards and being with Igor doesn't help : he never takes any chances. Yes there are some ideas this year, but I am sure they didn't go all the way and that is not what I'm looking forward in ice dance. My taste, my opinion.
World champions HAVE to take chances and risks. If you don't like say Navka, you don't deserve to be world champions IMO.

And the best all around coach title has to be debated among Linitchuk, Zazoui and my personnal favorite Skotnicky.
All of these coach take chances.
All of them have got many ideas they try to put on the ice :
- Linitchuk is going the modern dance way, sometimes a tad too much in her choreography to please and "talk" to the audience
- Zazoui isn't alone, it all depends on the choregraph she's working with. With Camerlengo, it was more towards theatrics, with Diana Ribas, she's going to a more classical 'épuré" style that I prefer.
- Skotnicky on the other hand depends more on the skaters he has and knows how to make them stronger. OK He never goes against them when their idea is terrible, but he always knows how to make the best of it.