- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
IIRC Callaghan also said in 1997 that Tara didn't flutz.
What did you think of kimmie?
- Thread starter Tinymavy15
- Start date
IIRC Callaghan also said in 1997 that Tara didn't flutz.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2008
^ A world championship.
Obviously, but she hasn't had a world medal since. And artisticly she isn't half as good as them. What bugs me isn't Kimmie's artistry as such, but that she hasn't evolved since her gold medal, hasn't tried to progress artisticly.
WOW. I don't agree at all.
At the Bompard this year, she was nearly on par with Mao in that area. Her step sequence had more artistic flair than ever. I wouldn't have said the same the year before.
She has evolved, the technical elements she used to do seems to have gone and that's what makes it look bad I bet.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I just think that she is overly dissed.:sheesh:
Joe
Joe
What did you think of Kimmie?
I think Kimmie has improved her artistry over the past couple years. In my opinion, when she won Worlds, she had no artistry. After much criticism she came back the next year having worked on artistry and I believe her coach even talked about it. She has been making progress in that area since.
I remember Miki Ando doing the same thing at a point in her career. I distinctly remember her being quoted as saying "teach me how to skate like that"--referring to an artistic skater. I think it was at this point that Ando began having problems with her jumps.
I wonder if the same thing happend to Kimmie. Then after having jumping falls, plus the pressure of being the defending champ has undermined her confidence. Then along came the junior ladies this year to really shake her up.
I will never be a big fan of Kimmie's skating. However, she has developed a more mature and sometimes even artistic look to her skating. Kimmie along with Bebe secured two spots for the ladies and for that they should both get respect.
When all is said and done it should be remembered that Kimmie did the best she possibly could do at Worlds this year. You can be sure of that because she was out to redeem herself and would have liked nothing better than to get on that podium. How can you expect more of someone than to do their best?
Hope next year is a better one for her.
Dizzy
I think Kimmie has improved her artistry over the past couple years. In my opinion, when she won Worlds, she had no artistry. After much criticism she came back the next year having worked on artistry and I believe her coach even talked about it. She has been making progress in that area since.
I remember Miki Ando doing the same thing at a point in her career. I distinctly remember her being quoted as saying "teach me how to skate like that"--referring to an artistic skater. I think it was at this point that Ando began having problems with her jumps.
I wonder if the same thing happend to Kimmie. Then after having jumping falls, plus the pressure of being the defending champ has undermined her confidence. Then along came the junior ladies this year to really shake her up.
I will never be a big fan of Kimmie's skating. However, she has developed a more mature and sometimes even artistic look to her skating. Kimmie along with Bebe secured two spots for the ladies and for that they should both get respect.
When all is said and done it should be remembered that Kimmie did the best she possibly could do at Worlds this year. You can be sure of that because she was out to redeem herself and would have liked nothing better than to get on that podium. How can you expect more of someone than to do their best?
Hope next year is a better one for her.
Dizzy
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
Well said, DD.
If she can't stand up on the jumps, she's just not going to make it. She's always been known for her athletic/jumping prowess and, as we all know, hasn't been able to count on that lately.
I hope she can improve- I met her once and she seemed like a very kind and well-mannered young lady. If she's "too old" ... then skating is in real trouble. What does concern me is she often says something to the effect of "I had fun out there and that's what counts" or "I just want to go out there and have fun." I know she doesn't mean that she isn't taking it seriously ... but fun time is over and she needs to step up or step out.
I hope she can improve- I met her once and she seemed like a very kind and well-mannered young lady. If she's "too old" ... then skating is in real trouble. What does concern me is she often says something to the effect of "I had fun out there and that's what counts" or "I just want to go out there and have fun." I know she doesn't mean that she isn't taking it seriously ... but fun time is over and she needs to step up or step out.
I think that her arms were better than before, especially at the beginning of the program. It seems still a bit difficult for her to do arms in the middle of the program. But in the beginning of the program, she looked so much better than before. I was glad.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
That's the sense I get, too, that concerns me.
I think people are just blowing the statement out of proportion. To me it just sounded like a sound byte- as if, Let's just say I had fun out there and focus on the positives.
And people forget, Meissner has ALREADY won a world championship so the "hunger" may not be as intense in her case as someone who is gunning for the top.
IMHO- I was in the "don't count Meissner out" boat last year. But this year, I'm convinced she has already peaked. This season was her downfall, her demise and even though she might get the jumps back 85% I really don't see her being competitive any more. Did you see how low her SP scores were even though she nailed it?? It's almost like she's good, but she's not great. I think she is learning to be content with a top 10 placement, but if I'm to be frank I think this is the last time she will even get to go to worlds or olys, especially with only two spots open for next year's worlds. That is, unless two or MORE of the new youngsters go through a growth spurt and struggle...which definitely can't be ruled out considering how much is on the table- but is unlikely. I have a feeling 2009 Nats could come down to who's left standing- or worse, who falls the least. The pressure will be on EVERYONE and it will be INTENSE.
I'd like for Meissner to hang in there, but we must get real here. I don't see it happening, not with the vast group of youngsters coming up. The guard needs to change yet again. Nationally she may find herself in Suguri's position- hanging in there but just not quite good enough to make the cut.
And people forget, Meissner has ALREADY won a world championship so the "hunger" may not be as intense in her case as someone who is gunning for the top.
IMHO- I was in the "don't count Meissner out" boat last year. But this year, I'm convinced she has already peaked. This season was her downfall, her demise and even though she might get the jumps back 85% I really don't see her being competitive any more. Did you see how low her SP scores were even though she nailed it?? It's almost like she's good, but she's not great. I think she is learning to be content with a top 10 placement, but if I'm to be frank I think this is the last time she will even get to go to worlds or olys, especially with only two spots open for next year's worlds. That is, unless two or MORE of the new youngsters go through a growth spurt and struggle...which definitely can't be ruled out considering how much is on the table- but is unlikely. I have a feeling 2009 Nats could come down to who's left standing- or worse, who falls the least. The pressure will be on EVERYONE and it will be INTENSE.
I'd like for Meissner to hang in there, but we must get real here. I don't see it happening, not with the vast group of youngsters coming up. The guard needs to change yet again. Nationally she may find herself in Suguri's position- hanging in there but just not quite good enough to make the cut.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
With the two eligibles for Worlds, where would you fit Kimmie in?
Rachael
Mirai
Caroline
Ashley
Bebe
Alyssa
Chrissie
Katrina
and if Emily returns.
Rachael
Mirai
Caroline
Ashley
Bebe
Alyssa
Chrissie
Katrina
and if Emily returns.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
I am no Shizuka fan, but she came in 9th at worlds in 2005 ( 2 places lower than Kimmie this year ), at the ripe old age of 23 ( 5 years older than Kimmie is now ).
Was that Shizuka's downfall? ............ or her demise? :scratch:
But then Arakawa didn't have to deal with youngsters who could do everything she was capable of (and then some) that very next year, or even that year. Sort of like the year Slute returned to competition after her illness- she rose back to the top because there was no real emerging talent on the horizon. When the talent did arrive (Asada) the year after she won worlds, she got beat. ETA: to go OT a little, for those wondering about Cohen's "possible comeback", here's another reason she should keep her current day job.
Meissner does not have the luxury that the above two had...to be able to struggle one year and then work her way back to the top. The timing of Kimmie's career was right on when she won worlds, but unfortunate in another sense because the very next year, the new generation grabbed a foothold. To ask her to come back and beat them is too much IMHO- the other newer skaters are simply better than her. I can't help but wonder whether this contributed to her troubles- she expected to stay on top or at least hold her own, but instead has experienced the quickest demise of a world champion I've ever seen. (If Ando weren't struggling with injury she'd be hanging in there, so I'm not including her yet).
Or...to be more fair to Kimmie, maybe it's not so much her demise as it was the field around her getting that much stronger. I think it's a combination of both, sadly.
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- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
Shizuka actually should have placed 6th. And she had more quality in her skating.
The problem is that Kimmie at her best is inferior to 9 or 10 other competitors when they are at their best.
I think she should be happy with what she did at 2006 Worlds and move on to college.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
I guess the fundamental question is: How long does a skater continue to improve? Some skaters peak at a young age, then fade. Others slowly improve over time, like Joannie. And some peak, fade, peak, fade etc. We just don't know which category Kimmie fits in.
Of course, we could do a more detailed analysis if we knew WHY Kimmie is faltering, but we don't have access to that information.
Of course, we could do a more detailed analysis if we knew WHY Kimmie is faltering, but we don't have access to that information.
But didn't people write of Miki Ando after the Olympics, and she won worlds the next year, with quite frankly a better performance then the one Mao pulled of this year. (And I'm not a Miki fan)
I wouldn't write of Meissner completely, although I will admit that I don't think that Kimmie was ever as consistent as people were giving her credit for being....Who knows she could just be dealing with growth issues.
In terms of Mao and Yu-na, I'm not sure that a clean Meissner can compete with a clean Mao or a clean Yu-na...
But as for the other US girls, I think there are question marks about them.
Rachael Flatt seems to be (while not my favorite) the most consistent of the US girls. But Rachael has yet to go through puberty and honestly she looks to me like someone who might be hit hard with it.
Caroline Zhang-is very cute but she has issues with technique and underrotation Who knows what growing more wil do to her.
Mirai-is lovely, but she's been struggling with consistency and underrotation all season long.
A somewhat clean Meissner should beat Ashley. If Meissner can get some form of consistency again, I don't think it's over for her by a long shot.
I wouldn't write of Meissner completely, although I will admit that I don't think that Kimmie was ever as consistent as people were giving her credit for being....Who knows she could just be dealing with growth issues.
In terms of Mao and Yu-na, I'm not sure that a clean Meissner can compete with a clean Mao or a clean Yu-na...
But as for the other US girls, I think there are question marks about them.
Rachael Flatt seems to be (while not my favorite) the most consistent of the US girls. But Rachael has yet to go through puberty and honestly she looks to me like someone who might be hit hard with it.
Caroline Zhang-is very cute but she has issues with technique and underrotation Who knows what growing more wil do to her.
Mirai-is lovely, but she's been struggling with consistency and underrotation all season long.
A somewhat clean Meissner should beat Ashley. If Meissner can get some form of consistency again, I don't think it's over for her by a long shot.
Agree with your analysis. But I don't think Kim at her best can even beat Mao or Yuna with a mistake, even two. And Wagner, she's kind of a wildcard. Showed great potential at TEB/Nats, then bombed worlds. I think we will continue to see these sorts of erratic patterns because of the demands of the new scoring system. Even Asada and Kim are not consistent performers. I think the days of cranking out stopper after stopper have come to an end.
Maybe in Four years (less?), we will either have a new definition of Consistency...or we will just forget it even existed.
I think consistency now is not falling on your butt on multiple occassions. Rachael Flatt is consistent, but who knows how she handle the added pressure of Senior competition.
