Lambiel and Cizeron together "On ice perspectives"

[Flying Feijoa]

Are you even allowed to say this on here? I thought you'd get banned for that honestly.

Yes as long as it's civil. Also other people are allowed to agree or disagree.

Now I don't particularly like this as an example of same-sex ice dance for the following reasons:
-When they are holding onto each other, they are mostly not skating (in fact they're fairly stationary)
-When they're skating they are mostly doing side by side identical choreo, and quite far apart

I don't mind about the skaters' gender, as long as they display good blade-to-ice and partnering skills. For me Papadakis/Hubbell's programme had more close skating in hold. Cizeron/Lambiel's programme look more like one of those show pieces where two singles skaters share the same ice (though to be fair Lambiel wasn't an ice dancer).

 

[icewhite]

I adore both skaters but same sex pairs is a HARD NO from me.

Why on earth? Unlike many others here I don't like this particular performance much, but in general it's a hard yes from me and I don't understand why anyone would be against it.

 

[yesterday]

Beautiful. Is there a reason Stephane wears two different blades...? One has a solid base plate, the other a traditional.

eagle eyes!

Idk of course, but could it be some kind of testing phase? Or would you have to switch both in any case?

 

[gkelly]

This looks like a very artistic exploration through skating of two people supporting each other through emotional struggles.

It is not trying to fit into the definition of "pair skating" or "ice dance" as competitive disciplines. Which gives them more freedom to tell the story they want to tell and interact in ways that serve that story/relationship without having to worry about competitive rules.

I welcome ice dance partnerships regardless of the gender of the partners, but this particular performance is something else.

 

[globalsoul]

Why on earth? Unlike many others here I don't like this particular performance much, but in general it's a hard yes from me and I don't understand why anyone would be against it.

Interesting. On here generally people have different preferences, likes and favorite skaters - why would this topic be any different? I'm not into same-sex pairs, or dance - not my thing. Will never enjoy watching it, can't relate to it. Nope, not for me. It's like asking why on earth don't you like my favorite skater, to me he's so awesome? Why are you against him? No one does that here. Why would we all have to enjoy the same things, the same style skating?

 

[el henry]

Interesting. On here generally people have different preferences, likes and favorite skaters - why would this topic be any different? I'm not into same-sex pairs, or dance - not my thing. Will never enjoy watching it, can't relate to it. Nope, not for me. It's like asking why on earth don't you like my favorite skater, to me he's so awesome? Why are you against him? No one does that here. Why would we all have to enjoy the same things, the same style skating?

But you didn't say you didn't enjoy a style, but a gender pairing, so it is confusing.

Hopefully in the future we will have many same gender pairings. Some will be like Hubbell and Donohue, (or Hubbell and Papadakis) some will be like Papadakis and Cizéron (or Cizeron and Lambiel), some will be like others we have not seen. So we can talk about styles.

To say I don't like same gender pairings, to me, is like saying I don't like Russian pairings, or Canadian pairings, or pairings of people with blue eyes. It is far too broad, to me, to make any sense.

 

[Mathematician]

To say I don't like same gender pairings, to me, is like saying I don't like Russian pairings, or Canadian pairings, or pairings of people with blue eyes. It is far too broad, to me, to make any sense.

Haha, disliking a certain country's (usually Russia's) entire discipline is extremely normal in figure skating, so I wouldn't use that as an argument.

It's easy to be an intellectual and act like its all the same in art, but can we just be real? The difference in aura between same versus opposite gender pairs is inherently clear. Don't argue for the sake of it - this is a very easy to understand perspective and I don't believe anyone really doesn't get it.

 

[el henry]

Haha, disliking a certain country's (usually Russia's) entire discipline is extremely normal in figure skating, so I wouldn't use that as an argument.

It's easy to be an intellectual and act like its all the same in art, but can we just be real? The difference in aura between same versus opposite gender pairs is inherently clear. Don't argue for the sake of it - this is a very easy to understand perspective and I don't believe anyone really doesn't get it.

I have seen no posts on Goldenskate that dislike all of the skaters from one country. Can you cite me to those posts? (not "it can be assumed or "what someone really means", but an actual post that actually spells out that point). ETA: I don't read other social media for opinions because it is too easy to just say things to garner a reaction, and I prefer not to to engage in that kind of discourse.

I am sorry you don't believe that anyone really doesn't get it. I don't get it. The difference in aura between Papadakis and Cizeron and Hubbell and Donohue, that I understand. A difference in "aura" between a same gender pairing and an opposite gender pairing, as a generic broad based Every. Single. Pairing.

It makes no sense to me and I don't understand.

 

[brakes]

Which idea do you mean?

Idea of skating as same sex pair.
There is amazing balance and complement between male and female bodies, their sizes 'complete' each other in a pair...
It's the matter of perfect natural aesthetics and proportions.

Two bodies of the same size and build in a dance do not look appealing on ice at all.

 

[icewhite]

Idea of skating as same sex pair.
There is amazing balance and complement between male and female bodies, their sizes 'complete' each other in a pair...
It's the matter of perfect natural aesthetics and proportions.

Two bodies of the same size and build in pair do not look appealing on ice at all.
Imho.

Okay, personally I think it's the other way around, the different size bothers me, I'd like them to have the same size and height...
But anyway, there are smaller men and and bigger women. Not all men are tall and full of muscles and not all women are tiny. So I don't get this as an argument regardless.

 

[brakes]

Okay, personally I think it's the other way around, the different size bothers me, I'd like them to have the same size and height...
But anyway, there are smaller men and and bigger women. Not all men are tall and full of muscles and not all women are tiny. So I don't get this as an argument regardless.

99% of pairs in figure skating are selected to match proper size: man taller than woman and it's been happening for like 100 years.
So I guess it makes an argument regardless of what you personally think.

 

[TallyT]

It's the matter of perfect natural aesthetics and proportions.

No, the matter of your preferred aesthetics and proportions. Especially of that preference carries over into other fields such as dance. If not........

In any case, the selection of bigger man to smaller woman has always had way more to do with practicalities than how it is meant to look, witness the lopsided look (mentioned quite often on this board and elsewhere) of many pair/ice dance couples where the difference is too much, just because that is who is available and how he needs to lift/throw. People are entitled to their preferences, but please let's not try and say it's anything but personal.

 

[brakes]

No, the matter of your preferred aesthetics and proportions. Especially of that preference carries over into other fields such as dance. If not........

In any case, the selection of bigger man to smaller woman has always had way more to do with practicalities than how it is meant to look, witness the lopsided look (mentioned quite often on this board and elsewhere) of many pair/ice dance couples where the difference is too much, just because that is who is available and how he needs to lift/throw. People are entitled to their preferences, but please let's not try and say it's anything but personal.

Just like other people who don't like same-sex figure skating, I'm posting my preferences.
I think expressing them is main purpose of this forum.

 

[4everchan]

I am slightly intrigued by the fact that when Gabi and Maddie's video got posted, I don't recall anyone having issues with it, but then, two men do the same and it brings negativity.

 

[TallyT]

Just like other people who don't like same-sex figure skating, I'm posting my preferences.
I think expressing them is main purpose of this forum.

It is - it's also just the 'perfect natural aesthetics and proportions' sounds a tad dogmatic when it's simply a matter of convention. After all, Fred Astaire looked perfect dancing with women not that much shorter than him (who were in heels too) but also with Gene Kelly, who looked perfect dancing with Donald O'Connor etc. Maybe if we could get one of our taller men to do a duet program with Nathan Chen or Shoma Uno (they did one at an ice show, I believe, but they are both on the smaller size) we could judge if the proportions look as good then.

And on an unabashedly shallow note, it doesn't hurt that Lambiel and Cizeron are also two of the most handsome, no downright beautiful, specimens of humanity, male or female, in the skating world as well as two of those who best combine strength and grace.

 

[brakes]

It is. it's just the 'perfect natural aesthetics and proportions' sounds a tad dogmatic when it's simply a metter of convention. After all, Fred Astaire looked perfect dancing with women not that much shorter than him (who were in heels too) but also with Gene Kelly, who looked perfect dancing with Donald O'Connor etc.

And on an unabashedly shallow note, it doesn't hurt that Lambiel and Cizeron are also two of the most handsome, if not downright beautiful, specimens of the human being, male or female, in the world as well as two of those who best combine strength and grace.

I have the right to 'sound dogmatic' or whatever else in my posts as long as I don't break forum rules regarding civil conversation.

I don't like same-sex pair figure skating from aesthetic and traditional point of view, whether you like it, accept it or "understand" it.

 

[TallyT]

I have the right to 'sound dogmatic' or whatever else in my posts as long as I don't break forum rules regarding civil conversation.

I don't like same-sex pair figure skating from aesthetic and traditional point of view, whether you like it, accept it or "understand" it.

You do not "understand" me. You have a perfect right to not like any aspect of skating, but if you simply say it is "the matter of perfect natural aesthetics and proportions" as a statement then others have the right to argue the point, just as dogmatically in fact. I don't have a problem with anyone liking or disliking any aesthetic - I detest skaters wearing tutus, but that's me.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I love this performance, and I love once perspectives but I'd love to see it from rinkside POV. I'd like to see both of them at the same time, as I feel that's the main draw for me, and with a lot of the performance I see one or the other. I actually don't mind the lack of holds etc, it works with the impact they are going for, I'd just like a camera angle where I can see both skating at the same time.

 

[gleungc6]

Beautiful. Is there a reason Stephane wears two different blades...? One has a solid base plate, the other a traditional.

That’s a really good spot! Maybe you/someone could ask someone in skating/skating media to ask him? So curious!

 

[reut]

That’s a really good spot! Maybe you/someone could ask someone in skating/skating media to ask him? So curious!

A few years ago he had two different blades altogether, one silver and one golden. When he was asked about it he answered: "Well, I have different legs". I guess this is something he finds comfortable for him.