2023 CS Autumn Classic Pairs Free Skate

[icewhite]

I think both Skate Canada and USFS are terrible with regards to political savvy. Japan and Korea maybe. US and Canada no.

What do you mean?

 

[icewhite]

In general I am thinking that maybe we put too much emphasis on feds doing politics though. I tend to think it is not so much feds/countries supporting all of their skaters, but certain teams and camps and coaches having huge influence.

 

[el henry]

In general I am thinking that maybe we put too much emphasis on feds doing politics though. I tend to think it is not so much feds/countries supporting all of their skaters, but certain teams and camps and coaches having huge influence.

Agreed about camps, that is a good point.

The US Fed may support its chosen ones (who doesn't?) but it certainly does not politick on behalf of all of its skaters. To use my favorite example, Jason Brown. Someone may not like Jason's scores and that's fine. (I don't like them either, I think he is underscored. ) But to attribute it to the *US Fed* politicking on his behalf, when the US Fed has done nothing of the sort and has in fact at times actively discouraged him, uh, no.

I don't know of any fed that actively supports all of their skaters.

I will say that the Canadian Fed, sadly, appears particularly not interested in supporting their skaters. Which is sad. ETA: But to bring it back on topic, I think they are supporting Deanna and Max, which is great.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think both Skate Canada and USFS are terrible with regards to political savvy. Japan and Korea maybe. US and Canada no.

Thanks for your thoughts @moonvine. Italy for sure has political influence and know-how too, as Cinquanta laid that base when he was in power. Japan and Korea have lots of great skaters and huge fan support, which equals dollars, which for these countries has translated to political clout and influence. Political know-how involves different networking skills, leverage and connections on a number of levels.

The thing about the U.S. is that they have a lot of talented skaters. Plus, U.S. fed previously had a lot of leverage via revenue generated from broadcast TV contracts in the U.S., which no longer exist in the same way. And even when the U.S. had more leverage from t.v. contract revenue, they simply did not know how to effectively use that modicum of influence. There have always been top U.S. skaters, some of whom had/ have politically well-connected coaches, but that's different from the federation having and knowing how to use political power.

In regard to Canada, they are well-connected within the ISU, which involves political savvy. Benoit Lavoie would not have been elected ISU VP for Figure Skating, if this was not the case. Some fans may be confusing SC not having political influence with the fact that SC is rebuilding in every discipline except ice dance. As I mentioned earlier, developing and managing skating talent well, is a separate skill from developing political influence.

Having a depth of talented skaters is important, but that does not necessarily translate to having and effectively using political power. Regardless of varying perceptions surrounding fs politics, Canada has an illustrious legacy in pairs, and they've had huge stars in the other disciplines over the years. Right now, SC is especially strong in ice dance, and their pairs division is improving every season, since the retirements and partnership splits post-2018 Olympics. More importantly, Canadian choreographers, who are former skaters, have made enormous contributions to the sport.

Thus, Canada's skating legacy is significant, regardless of whether any of us fans believe or are aware of Canadian officials having some modicum of soft power and influence behind-the-scenes.

 

[4everchan]

Lavoie has been elected on his own merit and contributions to the sport, not because he is Canadian. Lavoie's 40 years of service are worth mentioning and he is the first Québécois ever to reach such a high level rank within the ISU. Let's not forget how he exposed the Salt Lake City judging scandal. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/judge-learns-from-rebuke/article4142397/

If Canada had so much political power, it wouldn't remain without an olympic title in men, Manley would have won 1988, Dubreuil-Lauzon, Weapo and Piper and Paul would have won worlds, and there is no way Canada, as a super power dance nation would have lost a spot for worlds 2023 in dance, especially with a reduced field.

Canada has not always been in a rebuilding phase.... Will leave this here because, of course, anyone is entitled to their opinion. However, I have an issue when opinions are presented as facts without any backing. (I am aware that my second paragraph is an opinion which not everyone may share)

 

[skylark]

Regarding favourable scoring towards the reigning world champs, funny enough, I mentioned this happening last year when K/F had issues at Skate America (or was it another event?) , but I was told that their elements were so much stronger than Deanna and Max, who had a better performance, that it wasn't home cooking nor skating while world champion but just good scoring.. funny how when it happens to another team, some people do not appreciate it.

I posted after Skate America last year that I thought Deanna and Max should have placed ahead of Alexa and Brandon. I've posted here about thinking that Chelsea and Balazs should have placed ahead of Emmanuelle and Nic at 2023 AC. I didn't say that L/N are light years ahead of the Canadians. Just to clarify. I stand by my opinions ... and of course everyone will have different perspectives, outlooks and opinions. This is a subjective sport.

 

[4everchan]

I posted after Skate America last year that I thought Deanna and Max should have placed ahead of Alexa and Brandon. I've posted here about thinking that Chelsea and Balazs should have placed ahead of Emmanuelle and Nic at 2023 AC. I didn't say that L/N are light years ahead of the Canadians. Just to clarify. I stand by my opinions ... and of course everyone will have different perspectives, outlooks and opinions. This is a subjective sport.

As much as I try to see what a couple people say about Liu and Nagy, I fail to see it. They had two costly mistakes and didn't really have an interesting performance in the LP. My reply was not about your post anyways, I quoted the person earlier who mentioned political scoring and so on. I have seen Nic and Emma skate live at CQÉ, not this weekend. They are very good. They beat Laurin and Éthier who finished 3rd at Skate America. Liu and Nagy are certainly promising but they are not a team that will yet win awards if they cannot land their SBS jumps. End of story there.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ You mean if Chelsea Liu doesn't figure out with her coaches how to get her long legs untangled and working better for her so she can get her free leg around faster on landings. Balasz is not having problems landing his jumps. Chelsea & Balasz have both won awards as pairs skaters already, both individually with other partners, and together as a new team (gold at 2023 Glacier Falls Summer Classic, and they were third in the fp at 2023 Autumn Classic Int'l, but perhaps small medals are not awarded at senior B Challenger events).

Many teams who are 'promising' will not be winning major awards this season. And even teams who win awards at major events, will sometimes win with mistakes. For example, Emma & Nic got bronze at ACI, despite a number of errors in the fp.

You might as well also say that Emma & Nic still need to figure out their jumps consistently too, as in their fp, they had problems on all the sbs jumping passes, along with some unbalanced landings on throws. In addition, the double throw needs to be upgraded to a triple.

 

[skylark]

As much as I try to see what a couple people say about Liu and Nagy, I fail to see it. They had two costly mistakes and didn't really have an interesting performance in the LP. My reply was not about your post anyways, I quoted the person earlier who mentioned political scoring and so on. I have seen Nic and Emma skate live at CQÉ, not this weekend. They are very good. They beat Laurin and Éthier who finished 3rd at Skate America. Liu and Nagy are certainly promising but they are not a team that will yet win awards if they cannot land their SBS jumps. End of story there.

That's one place where we differ I guess. When I love a pair, it's not the winning of awards that interests me. I just love to watch Chelsea and Balazs skate, to see their expression of the program and their joy. I also love to watch Emma and Nic skate; I enjoy his passion and her smooth skating.

 

[4everchan]

That's one place where we differ I guess. When I love a pair, it's not the winning of awards that interests me. I just love to watch Chelsea and Balazs skate, to see their expression of the program and their joy. I also love to watch Emma and Nic skate; I enjoy his passion and her smooth skating.

I am not looking for awards for either teams both teams are just getting out on the circuit. As you say, I can see Nic's enthusiasm and passion and appreciate Emma's presence and skating skills. However, I also get a strong "team" vibe when I watch them. I didn't see that at all for Liu Nagy. Not saying it's not there or that it will not come. I didn't see it at ACI.