2023-24 Canadian Figure Skating

[RatedPG]

Is it too early to think about who will go to Worlds???

Ice Dance is pretty much locked - Gilles/Poirier (will most likely be gold medal favs), Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen, Lagha/Lajoie
Pairs - Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps, Pereira/Michaud, is the last one going to be McIntosh/Mimar or will it be another pair
Ladies - I cannot imagine they send anyone other than Schizas, but if she is not clean and someone else is, would they actually someone else?
Men - I cannot imagine who they will send and we need to fill 2 spots...I do not have any guesses...

I agree with Dance/Ladies
For Ladies, I’m intrigued with who they will send to 4CC (3 spots) and Junior Worlds (2 spots); potentially five different athletes
For Pairs, Kelly Ann LAURIN / Loucas ETHIER beat McIntosh/Mimar at Skate Canada a week ago. So, this spot is up for grabs, as you mentioned. Could have been another “retired” pair from Quebec, but, that hurts too much for me to even mention that other team
Men - It is important to build a case for yourself. I think the winner of Nationals will be sent. But, if the third place finisher did better internationally than the second place finisher, I can see Skate Canada choosing that athlete instead. Right now, Gogolev is winning that battle. Wesley Chiu will have to place 6th with 235+ at NHK. Roman, has a chance too. If he scores 235+ and wins a medal behind Jason and Lukas, at Warsaw. May the best man win.
I’m intrigued with 4CC selections too. Maybe, they will send their top three picks there and wait to decide till after 4CC. Also, two spots at Junior Worlds up for grabs too. So, 5 spots, like the ladies.

 

[4everchan]

Conrad is going to worlds. Crystal ball has spoken

 

[icewhite]

BTW when I mentioned Josefin getting her SP Worlds TES min : i did mention she didn't do a 3-3... BUT here is what she did

3f, 3t-2t, 2a (no backloading) She got all level 4s on spins and steps. She didn't get high GOEs at all, mostly +1 and + 2 That's why it is aggravating. Our skaters should get multiple chances to get their minimums... They could even dumb down their tech content to make sure that they get positive GOEs on all jumping passes as really, there is no lutz nor loop nor 3-3 nor backloading in Josefin's program. I don't see why Kaiya and Sara-Maude cannot get their scores at challengers.

I will likely draw a lot of towards me now but in my eyes Josefin should not be going to worlds and neither should Sara-Maude. I know that's not how it works, it's just my personal opinion that neither are exciting skaters, although they both project a lot of joy while skating. But their skating itself -

 

[icewhite]

Among the men Sadovsky is still the only one who excites me with his skating, so that I hope he can get it together again, get over the injuries etc. and still have some quality skates. The recent video I saw looked quite good, but I can understand why people are giving up on him... still I will always enjoy such skaters, no matter how often they fall and pop.
Orzel, Gogolev and Chiu... they are skaters nice to watch, but I don't miss them when they aren't there. Although Orzel is so handsome.

There are definitely a few very talented juniors coming up and I would have more hope for them for success than I do for the current ones.

The big question to me is more about how many boys are even doing figure skating in Canada and what the structures look like.
I got the impression that skating in the US is just insanely expensive - everyone talks about how expensive it is, but I think it's a lot more than in most other countries, while it is at least rather accessible because of rinks and coachings being around - but maybe it's not the most talented who are filling the rinks but too often those with money? I have no idea what it's like in Canada.
Now, here, I see everyone with hockey skates, girls and boys. You basically only wear figure skates if you're family is already into figure skating. Despite Germany not being a hockey coreland.
Maybe with the popularity of hockey in Canada a lot of children, especially boys, are simply doing hockey.
I don't want to say the current skaters are not very talented. But increasing the pool of talented athletes to pick from is an important factor. As is funding them before they get to the absolute top. Having (also financially) accessible top coaches. All I know is that the top coaches in Canada are very good but also very expensive.
So... excuse me for being absolutely ignorant in regards to all this, but I see you guys talking so much about "sending them out", but I agree with other posters that sending them out can only do so much and if the skater is not at that level... sure, you can hope for the Josefin or Virtaanen way, but honestly from a very far away sports perspective (since I'm not involved in real figure skating on a personal level) that wouldn't be my way as a fed either.

 

[Marirue]

Looks like Jesse and Auréa got their silver medal.

 

[4everchan]

I will likely draw a lot of towards me now but in my eyes Josefin should not be going to worlds and neither should Sara-Maude. I know that's not how it works, it's just my personal opinion that neither are exciting skaters, although they both project a lot of joy while skating. But their skating itself -

Sara-Maude and Josefin are very different skaters. Sara-Maude is a superb jumper. You just don't know because she is not yet consistent. Her lutz is huge. She lands 3a in practice. Her skating skills are good = coming from ice dance. She is still quite young and doesn't yet project much but she is a huge talent. In any case, you will most likely be satisfied because she doesn't have tech minimums and is unlikely to be selected with one spot.

 

[4everchan]

Among the men Sadovsky is still the only one who excites me with his skating, so that I hope he can get it together again, get over the injuries etc. and still have some quality skates. The recent video I saw looked quite good, but I can understand why people are giving up on him... still I will always enjoy such skaters, no matter how often they fall and pop.
Orzel, Gogolev and Chiu... they are skaters nice to watch, but I don't miss them when they aren't there. Although Orzel is so handsome.

There are definitely a few very talented juniors coming up and I would have more hope for them for success than I do for the current ones.

The big question to me is more about how many boys are even doing figure skating in Canada and what the structures look like.
I got the impression that skating in the US is just insanely expensive - everyone talks about how expensive it is, but I think it's a lot more than in most other countries, while it is at least rather accessible because of rinks and coachings being around - but maybe it's not the most talented who are filling the rinks but too often those with money? I have no idea what it's like in Canada.
Now, here, I see everyone with hockey skates, girls and boys. You basically only wear figure skates if you're family is already into figure skating. Despite Germany not being a hockey coreland.
Maybe with the popularity of hockey in Canada a lot of children, especially boys, are simply doing hockey.
I don't want to say the current skaters are not very talented. But increasing the pool of talented athletes to pick from is an important factor. As is funding them before they get to the absolute top. Having (also financially) accessible top coaches. All I know is that the top coaches in Canada are very good but also very expensive.
So... excuse me for being absolutely ignorant in regards to all this, but I see you guys talking so much about "sending them out", but I agree with other posters that sending them out can only do so much and if the skater is not at that level... sure, you can hope for the Josefin or Virtaanen way, but honestly from a very far away sports perspective (since I'm not involved in real figure skating on a personal level) that wouldn't be my way as a fed either.

boys are doing hockey here... it's super expensive too.
which juniors? In women, yes, the junior skaters are very promising... In men? I am not sure. Wesley and Gogo are junior age still... Our skaters need to be sent out that's the reality. Conrad, Roman, Gogo and Wesley skating clean would all be very interesting prospects able to compete within the top 10 at worlds. Canadian men often have had the quads but not the consistency. Conrad for instance, can land all quads but the axel in practice. He is so not consistent that he only tries the salchow and toe loop.... hoping that one day he would land a clean program...Hasn't happened since junior days...

 

[Sackie]

Sara-Maude showed what she can do at 4CC last year in the free. And had she been sent out more before that event and had therefore been better known by International judges that program would have been scored higher for sure. An unknown skater who has a clean skate will probably only get +1s or 2. Where a well known skater will get +1 or 2s for less then perfect elements and get +3, 4 or even 5 for well done elements.

 

[Heather T]

Sadly, three of our four remaining probable medal contenders on the Grand Prix will be competing at Cup of China, so live-watching from this point is going to be decidedly a challenge.

Incidentally, Cup of China is the only 'regular' Grand Prix that Piper & Paul have never been to before now.

The field in China is pretty tough -- she'd have to beat one of Loena, Mai, and Ye-lim, plus two other more inconsistent but still capable Japanese skaters, and also Kurakova, and Petrokina.

Seems like a tall order , though Mai has now WD. Hopefully, she can put together 2 good programs in one competition there.

 

[BearryBear]

I don't think Canada is lacking talent. I think they're lacking the ability to develop that talent. They also need to be more open to switching coaches. I think Maddie and Roman could really do with a coaching change.

 

[Heather T]

I don't think Canada is lacking talent. I think they're lacking the ability to develop that talent. They also need to be more open to switching coaches. I think Maddie and Roman could really do with a coaching change.

I agree. I have had this same thought about Roman and Maddie but have not said it out loud lol. Staying with a longtime coach is comfortable but, when the skaters stagnate, they should consider what can be changed to give a better result. Maddie sought out new choreographers and that is helping her.

But I do think It would be good for both these skaters to be exposed to new coaches with different approaches to supporting the skaters.

 

[icewhite]

Sara-Maude and Josefin are very different skaters. Sara-Maude is a superb jumper. You just don't know because she is not yet consistent. Her lutz is huge. She lands 3a in practice. Her skating skills are good = coming from ice dance. She is still quite young and doesn't yet project much but she is a huge talent. In any case, you will most likely be satisfied because she doesn't have tech minimums and is unlikely to be selected with one spot.

Well, that sounds very promising. Maybe it's just a question of time and development then, like I think it is with Ruiter.

Regarding the sending out... I think Canadians have more competitions at home than skaters of some other countries. If you are talking about the statistical chances to get tech minimums of course you are right, those chances increase with every competition.
I am just not sure the consistency is really due to being sent out.

Spoiler: pretty off-topic

I am thinking about the more or less current crop of Russian men who are also always said to be very talented but inconsistent skaters. When Semenenko was sent to worlds though he did the job - I think it was one of his first true international competitions ever, due to injury and corona he didn't have much experience before, and it was not like he could just skate for fun - Russian commentators and press can be very nasty when you "fail" and it was partly on him to get back 3 spots for the Olympics.
Other beautiful skaters like Kolyada, Aliev, Mozalev, all of them with a perceived higher ceiling though, kind of "failed" in quite a few of their competitions. Surely Kolyada had enough international experience. He had the (jump) technique. When it worked it looked effortless, he even worked with a psychologist, still there were reasons - and I don't know them - why he was not able to land them consistently. Very often that is attributed to mental and psychological reasons, but from what I can see I don't really believe these explanations anymore. It seems to me that Kolyada's jumps for instance, as beautiful as they are, have very little leeway for errors. If everything goes perfectly, it looks great. If it doesn't -well. Aliev clearly has had stamina issues for most of his career. Mozalev doesn't have the ideal jump technique. Etc. Semenenko has "ugly" landings, but he knows how to catch a less than perfect jump and he fights for it until he's actually down. He also has simply had a very conservative jump layout which did not go for "if everything goes perfectly I'll land it" but for the jumps and programs that he was able to do clean without much risk taking.

In football there is always a lot of talk about how one team "wanted it more", "they were scared", "they just wanted it" and while of course psychology plays a huge role in sports I think that a lot of that talk comes from commentators and even coaches not knowing what really to do - because football is such a complex sport with so many factors, and it is very difficult to find the perfect balance of things. Mentality, psychology, confidence are sometimes an easy explanation if we don't know what exactly is wrong and how to change it.

I'm also not sure if it's always helpful to get sent out to get a reputation if you get a reputation that you're just not very good. Maybe in case of quite young skaters it just needs more patience and constant work, over years still, to finally get where you want to be.

 

[4everchan]

Local competitions won't get ranking points nor tech minimum.... so when our skaters get out, they are not only competing for that event but they have the heavy burden of ranking and scoring high... otherwise, they may not get GPs or ISU championships. Conrad was very candid about Skate Canada International perhaps his last event of the year (except for Nationals)... This is the load of pressure felt when you are Canadian.

Skate Canada has been lucky... when healthy. both Gabby and Kaetlyn nailed their events. Same with Patrick, and to some extent to Keegan. But not all skaters have competition nerves or want it more... I feel our 4 current leading men want it too much... and freeze. There is no reason for Conrad nor Stephen to start popping after landing two beautiful quads. It's even ridiculous. It's not technical as you can imagine. I think you could blindfold them, and tie their hands behind their backs and they would land a triple loop... yet... POP.

So, that's why Canadian fans are saying : send them out... we have seen that not sending them out doesn't work..... and we see that some skaters who barely have any outings at home because they come from smaller skating nations do get to 3-4 smaller events like Challengers and B series and get what they need for the second half of the season.

All we ask is that our skaters get a chance to skate without the burden of having to score so high for world rankings or minimums... What if our men and women were just showing up and getting the opportunity to enjoy themselves? When is the last time we have seen one of our skaters with a big smile in the KnC ? Look at Kaiya's SCI... Her performance was the worst I have seen... well... it was her first GP.... ever... tells one thing for sure.

 

[snowflake]

I will likely draw a lot of towards me now but in my eyes Josefin should not be going to worlds and neither should Sara-Maude. I know that's not how it works, it's just my personal opinion that neither are exciting skaters, although they both project a lot of joy while skating. But their skating itself -

Every nation has the right to send one skater who has the minmum tech (exciting or not). Josefin didn't have it last season, so no Swedish woman at 2023 worlds. She has it now and she will probably get the 2024 spot while I can't see any Swedish woman doing better.

So what you are saying is that you think the required minimum tech should be higher?

 

[4everchan]

Every nation has the right to send one skater who has the minmum tech (exciting or not). Josefin didn't have it last season, so no Swedish woman at 2023 worlds. She has it now and she will probably get the 2024 spot while I can't see any Swedish woman doing better.

So what you are saying is that you think the required minimum tech should be higher?

OMG no. 32 is hard enough to get as it is... It requires pretty much all level 4s and clean jumps.

 

[icewhite]

Every nation has the right to send one skater who has the minmum tech (exciting or not). Josefin didn't have it last season, so no Swedish woman at 2023 worlds. She has it now and she will probably get the 2024 spot while I can't see any Swedish woman doing better.

So what you are saying is that you think the required minimum tech should be higher?

I would completely change the whole system in that regard if I could.

 

[Talder]

Local competitions won't get ranking points nor tech minimum.... so when our skaters get out, they are not only competing for that event but they have the heavy burden of ranking and scoring high... otherwise, they may not get GPs or ISU championships. Conrad was very candid about Skate Canada International perhaps his last event of the year (except for Nationals)... This is the load of pressure felt when you are Canadian.

Skate Canada has been lucky... when healthy. both Gabby and Kaetlyn nailed their events. Same with Patrick, and to some extent to Keegan. But not all skaters have competition nerves or want it more... I feel our 4 current leading men want it too much... and freeze. There is no reason for Conrad nor Stephen to start popping after landing two beautiful quads. It's even ridiculous. It's not technical as you can imagine. I think you could blindfold them, and tie their hands behind their backs and they would land a triple loop... yet... POP.

So, that's why Canadian fans are saying : send them out... we have seen that not sending them out doesn't work..... and we see that some skaters who barely have any outings at home because they come from smaller skating nations do get to 3-4 smaller events like Challengers and B series and get what they need for the second half of the season.

All we ask is that our skaters get a chance to skate without the burden of having to score so high for world rankings or minimums... What if our men and women were just showing up and getting the opportunity to enjoy themselves? When is the last time we have seen one of our skaters with a big smile in the KnC ? Look at Kaiya's SCI... Her performance was the worst I have seen... well... it was her first GP.... ever... tells one thing for sure.

This....I agree It's so much pressure to have one opportunity to get minimums. It adds a lot of stress to the skater when they know it's a now or never situation.

 

[ladyjane]

To be fair: I thought the minimum TES was pretty hard for women last year, so I'm glad Josefin has got them now. Whatever you think, J. is such an interesting skater to watch. Never, ever boring. Sure, I still think Canada could get more women out there, but I don't see the need to put Josefin down. No Canadian poster ever did, you all helped her up!!!!! Gladly so.

 

[4everchan]

To be fair: I thought the minimum TES was pretty hard for women last year, so I'm glad Josephin has got them now. Whatever you think, J. is such an interesting skater to watch. Never, ever boring. Sure, I still think Canada could get more women out there, but I don't see the need to put Josephin down. No Canadian poster ever did, you all helped her up!!!!! Gladly so.

Just to make sure, I am happy for Josefin. I just wished our skaters got the same opportunity.

 

[rain]

Is it too early to think about who will go to Worlds???

Ice Dance is pretty much locked - Gilles/Poirier (will most likely be gold medal favs), Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen, Lagha/Lajoie
Pairs - Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps, Pereira/Michaud, is the last one going to be McIntosh/Mimar or will it be another pair
Ladies - I cannot imagine they send anyone other than Schizas, but if she is not clean and someone else is, would they actually someone else?
Men - I cannot imagine who they will send and we need to fill 2 spots...I do not have any guesses...

Totally agree. Unless there's an injury the team for dance is Gilles/Poirier, Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen and Lajoie/Lagha
The third pairs spot is totally up for grabs. I think they'll give it to whoever can deliver.
They are definitely not sending anyone but Maddie for the women.
Men is a complete toss-up. I always hope that Roman will get it together. I think Gogolev is in the lead of the pack of young guns. Somebody needs to come out and actually look like they want it.