Controversial Team Selections | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Controversial Team Selections

Quite a few reasons.
Yes it was true Hacker outskated Meissner on that particular night but we are talking about a skater who didn't even make it past Eastern Sectionals the year before. Plus Hacker had only competed at one international event prior to nationals, compared to the other girls who were sent to worlds and even the underage ones on the podium. She showed good consitency in the limited time we saw her but she is extremely prone to meltdowns. Still, I hope she can improve her jumps. She's a beautiful skater.

I can totally understand the USFS'

Hacker made a statement to the USFS and to all her naysayers a few weeks later, when, at the 4CC she was the highest placing American beating out both Ashely Wagner (3rd at Nationals) and Bebe Liang (5th at Nationals). You go girl!
 
There were a lot a charges along the line that Dambier was part of the “in group” surrounding Didier Gailhaguet and his allies, while Contesti and his coach were on the outside of that ruling clique. :ohwell:
I don't know about cliques, but there have been some strange decisions. I seem to recall Stanick Jeannette being left off the team when he should have been on it - can't remember what year it was (2004?). He probably wouldn't have won anything, but I was really annoyed that I didn't get to watch him skate :cool:
 
I don't know about cliques, but there have been some strange decisions...
Maybe some of our Golden Skate contributors from France can chime in with the real facts. :)

But from what I have read, the Paris axis is now in firm control, to the particular disadvantage of the skaters that train at Annery with Didier Lucine (Ponsero, for instance). Here is an interesting article from Icenetwork about the selection process for the Gotenborg Worlds.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080310&content_id=45430&vkey=ice_news
The French Ice Sports Federation and its president, the controversial Didier Gailhaguet, are known for Byzantine team selection processes that often appear to favour certain skaters, particularly those who train in Paris or are coached by Gailhaguet's former wife, Dumont....

In September, a group of coaches, skaters and officials -- including Joubert and Préaubert -- wrote a petition protesting results at the annual Paris Masters event. In response, technical specialists refused to officiate at the 2008 nationals, forcing Gailhaguet to fly in qualified officials from other European countries....

Selecting the country's single ladies' entrant for Gothenburg has also proven difficult.

The federation did not nominate its champion, Gwendoline Didier, bypassing her in favour of Candice Didier, who placed only fourth at nationals (the two skaters are not related). Candice is coached by Katia Beyer, the former wife of Gilles Beyer, who has been hired by Gailhaguet as an assistant sports director.

Gwendoline Didier protested the selection process in court, and a decision is expected this week. Meanwhile, the federation is holding a test competition between the two ladies next week.
Edited to add: Candice Didier went to Worlds, finishing 38th.
 
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Nicole got injured skating in the Nutcracker, which USFS did not want her to take part in, AFAIR. There seems to be some disagreement about whether she was injured before and made it worse in Nutcracker.

OTOH, Nicole was supplying most of what money came to her family at that time, AFAIR and asking her not to do a show I thought was definitely none of USFS's beeswax.
 
Edited to add: Contesti did, however, receive permission to compete in Italian Nationals. He won, and is now the Italian men's champion.
Did the French Fed give him permission? Or did he get an Italian passport (he's married to an Italian woman)? If the latter, the French Fed has no hold on him.
 
Imo, Contesti made the correct move. He's up against no one for a national title in Italy. In France, he would compete with Joubert, Ponsero, Preaubert. Not that he would not beat one of them in French Nats, he is a good skater but the risk is there and the French Fed might send one of the losers to Worlds instead if he did place.

Joe
 
Imo, Contesti made the correct move. He's up against no one for a national title in Italy. In France, he would compete with Joubert, Ponsero, Preaubert.
I agree he's better off not facing off against those three, but he'll still have to get past Karel Zelenka, who has a higher PB and has placed higher in major competitions. Not as tough as going against Joubert, obviously, but still tougher than if he'd been able to compete for Monaco.
 
Of course, Paul Wylie proved me and others who felt the same way wrong

We don't know how Mark would have done if he had gone to the Olympics... That men's field was pretty weak, or I should say the better skaters were injured/had poor skates. Paul's a fine artistic skater, but his jump content wasn't at the top of the field. But Kurt Browning was very injured, Bowman wasn't great, Barna I guess went flat after landing the quad, Todd Eldridge was injured too. And Elvis was too new and (with no artistry) wasn't going to be rewarded for his clean skate...

The point is that given the state of the field at the time, who says Mark Mitchell wouldn't have medaled. If the men I mentioned had been at the top of their game, even a perfect Wylie wouldn't have medaled. (Unless he showed up with better technical content) I mean Mitchell's fifth place finish at that year's world championship was better than any finish Paul ever had at a world championship, and the skating was one hundred percent better at that worlds as well.

But really the biggest issue was Eldridge getting that bye. I'm not against bye's in general, but they really should have checked his status better, because he clearly was not in great shape by the Olympics... Eldridge also should have had the class to step down, because he had to have known that he wasn't in his 1991 shape, and wasn't really going to realistically medal. I think that if your going to go to the Olympics on the bye and based on previous accomplishments, you should be able to skate at that high of a level by the time of that competition. That's why Michelle Kwan was one hundred percent correct for stepping down so Hughes could go..
 
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I agree he's better off not facing off against those three, but he'll still have to get past Karel Zelenka, who has a higher PB and has placed higher in major competitions. Not as tough as going against Joubert, obviously, but still tougher than if he'd been able to compete for Monaco.


Zelenka scored only 171.03 at 2007 Cup of China and 144.51 at Skate America; his PB was 187.65 at 2008 Worlds. Contesti scored 187.61 at the Challenge Cup in April 2008, and that is after having been away from international competition since the 2005-2006 GP.

I think it is Zelenka who will be looking over his shoulder, not Contesti.
 
Nicole got injured skating in the Nutcracker, which USFS did not want her to take part in, AFAIR. There seems to be some disagreement about whether she was injured before and made it worse in Nutcracker.

OTOH, Nicole was supplying most of what money came to her family at that time, AFAIR and asking her not to do a show I thought was definitely none of USFS's beeswax.

IIRC, Nicole (and Todd Eldredge for that matter) did a Nutcracker TOUR for about a month instead of staying home and training for US Nationals. The injury happened sometime during the tour and when it was still giving her problems at Nats, she withdrew figuring the USFSA would put her on the world team anyway. Apparently the USFSA was annoyed that she got injured skating during a tour instead of being at home training for her season and left her off the US Worlds team. I remember reading about the situation in one of Christine Brennan's books.
 
Zelenka scored only 171.03 at 2007 Cup of China and 144.51 at Skate America; his PB was 187.65 at 2008 Worlds. Contesti scored 187.61 at the Challenge Cup in April 2008, and that is after having been away from international competition since the 2005-2006 GP.

I think it is Zelenka who will be looking over his shoulder, not Contesti.
I'm not sure I'd compare Worlds 2008 with the Challenge Cup, but regardless Worlds 2008 is not Zelenka's PB, it's his season's best. His PB is 191.73 from when he finished 7th at 2007 Euros. Anyway, my point was not that he's necessarily better than Contesti (whom I can't recall ever seeing skate, so I can't really judge) but that Joe's suggestion that Contesti is "up against no one for a national title in Italy" is inaccurate.
 
Buttercup - When I wrote that about Contesti, I was thinking that the French Fed is so set in their ways that they would not even consider him for Worlds. That, of course, is just my opinion.

As to Zelenka, he is high on my list of "Undermarked Skaters". For whatever reason, it seems to me, he is just bypassed when scores are entered. He's much better than what you see as statistics. It should be a good battle for him and Contesti at Italian Nationals.

Joe
 
We don't know how Mark would have done if he had gone to the Olympics... That men's field was pretty weak, or I should say the better skaters were injured/had poor skates. Paul's a fine artistic skater, but his jump content wasn't at the top of the field. But Kurt Browning was very injured, Bowman wasn't great, Barna I guess went flat after landing the quad, Todd Eldredge was injured too. And Elvis was too new and (with no artistry) wasn't going to be rewarded for his clean skate...

The point is that given the state of the field at the time, who says Mark Mitchell wouldn't have medaled. If the men I mentioned had been at the top of their game, even a perfect Wylie wouldn't have medaled. (Unless he showed up with better technical content) I mean Mitchell's fifth place finish at that year's world championship was better than any finish Paul ever had at a world championship, and the skating was one hundred percent better at that worlds as well.

But really the biggest issue was Eldredge getting that bye. I'm not against bye's in general, but they really should have checked his status better, because he clearly was not in great shape by the Olympics... Eldredge also should have had the class to step down, because he had to have known that he wasn't in his 1991 shape, and wasn't really going to realistically medal. I think that if your going to go to the Olympics on the bye and based on previous accomplishments, you should be able to skate at that high of a level by the time of that competition. That's why Michelle Kwan was one hundred percent correct for stepping down so Hughes could go..

bekalc, I'm commenting here from hindsight. I do hope that Mark Mitchell has gotten over what must have been his great disappointment in not being chosen for the 1992 US Olympic team. I understand why Todd was chosen at the time (2 time US champ, 1991 World bronze medalist, "rising star" status), and of course wish the Olympic results had been better for him. Maybe he truly believed that he would be recovered enough from his back injury to compete at those Olympics.There should have been a test skate in place for him before those Olympics, but apparently there wasn't. I would also imagine that Todd took a lot of heat and criticism for the medical bye decision following those Olympic results. Nevertheless, Todd has certainly "proven" himself time and time again in competition since then (6 US titles, 6 World medals, 5 Skate America titles, etc.). As for Mark, he has gone on to have a successful coaching career, hasn't he? I would hope that he is well respected in the skating world.
 
Of all the Olympic team controversies, to me the biggest circus was the French team in 2006, where they had to choose between Samuel Contesti and Frederic Dambier.

Contesti got second (to Joubert) at French Nationals, while Dambier finished fourth. Somehow or other, Dambier was named to the Olympic team anyway. So Contesti went over the French Figure Skating Association’s head and appealed to the French Olympic Committee.

The French Olympic Committee decided to hold a test skate among Dambier, Contesti and Preubert for the open two spots. Contesti won with Preubert second, so Dambier was out.

Then Dambier appeal to the Council of Sports, but his appeal was rejected. However, his appeal in the local civil court system in his hometown was successful and the court instructed the French federation to put Dambier on the team. (He finished 19th.)

Contesti got so mad that he applied to skate for Monaco the next year. But the French federation withheld their permission. There were a lot a charges along the line that Dambier was part of the “in group” surrounding Didier Gailhaguet and his allies, while Contesti and his coach were on the outside of that ruling clique. :ohwell:
Actually, the FFSG had voted selection rules for that season. Those selection rules were stating that the base of the selection would be the past 2 years with an accumulation of points. The biggest total would go. Contesti was better than Dambier in 2005-2006 but far behind in 2004-2005. Total : Dambier had more points and was selected. Then Contesti protested, went to the olympic committee who granted him a test. But Dambier still had the rule for him and brought his case to an administrative court (administrative courts are dealing with the Public Law and are a specificity of the french Law). The administrative court considered that what the FFSG's general assembly had voted was the rule, whatever the president or the technical director or the olympic committee had decided. Then Dambier went to Euros and to Turin.
Contesti can complain all he wants against the parisians, Gailhaguet was not at the head of the FFSG when all this happened. The rules had precisely been voted to avoid contestations. The same case happened in Japan where Ando was qualified for the Olympics as she wasn't on Nationals' podium. The rules were similar. But nobody complained, even if it raised some eyebrows.

OTOH, few took the side of Contesti as, the previous year, a similar case had happened to his benefit. Stanick Jeannette had been better at Nationals but the fed judged that only the artistic note had held Stanick up when he was far below on the first note. Contesti got the selection and he didn't complained.
That year, Gailhaguet was still at the head of the FFSG. Jeannette had left Annick to go and skate with Philippe Pélissier who, at the time, was at war with the fed.
It was to avoid this mess that the new president proposed clear rules for 2005-2006. Well, it didn't worked as well as he had wished.

But from what I have read, the Paris axis is now in firm control, to the particular disadvantage of the skaters that train at Annery with Didier Lucine (Ponsero, for instance). Here is an interesting article from Icenetwork about the selection process for the Gotenborg Worlds.
It has nothing to do with "Paris".
It has to do about the story of the FFSG.
Basically, the FFSG has come from a micro-federation to a middle sized one in 40 years, from a period with few rinks and very few experts to a situation where many big and middle size towns have rinks and where the proper skating technique is not taught by 3 knowledgeable coaches.

The people who are currently ruling the FFSG comes from the "initial" period, the 60s. At that time, there was only one coach able to bring the few french skaters to the international level. Her name was Jacqueline Vaudecrane (the old lady in the middle, the picture was taken in Lyon at Euros). Before WWII, figure skating was a very elite thing in France. After WWII, the infrastructures were destroyed but she managed to create a school at Boulogne-Billancourt, near Paris. And from there, she managed to develop excellent skaters who began to won at the international level. You can credit her with 5 bronze medals at Europeans, 11 silver, 2 gold (+ 4 in ice-dance, 1 bronze, 2 silver and 1 gold) ; 7 bronze medal at Worlds (+ 1 in ice-dance), 4 silver medals (+ 1 in ice dance) and 3 gold ; 3 olympic bronze medal and 1 silver.
She is considered as the Mummy of french figure skating. Thanks to her, figure skating became hugely popular and expanded a lot after 1968 Olympics in Grenoble.

As they had a mummy, her students have seen themselvers as heirs. Their names are Alain Calmat (ex-Sport Minister), Alain Giletti, Patrick Péra, Robert Dureville (current National Director), Jean-Roland Racle (current assistant National Director, coached Abitbol/Bernadis), Gilles Beier (director of the national center of Bercy, member of the national selection committee, in charge of the high level, he coached Laetitia Hubert), Philippe Pélissier (he's the rebel, he comments on Eurosport and participate to development programs, coached many skaters but rarely kept them), Didier Gailhaguet (current president whose ex-wife is coaching in the other national pole in Champigny, coached Simond, Depouilly, Bonaly) and those skaters have heirs of their own heirs : Jean-Christophe Simond (who left Nice, south of France for Poitier to train Joubert), Laurent Depouilly (who is in Bordeaux) who have their own and so on, the more recent heir being of course Brian Joubert who has been counseled by Gailhaguet and Giletti (who sharpens his blades) and trained by Depouilly and Simond.

All those guys have worked all their life to develop figure skating in a country in which skating was absolutly not a tradition and to bring up champions the way Vaudecrane did. Not that they always get along with one another but they have known one another since they were kids at the rink / the summer camps and have a common goal. They've been the keepers of the skating technique when the skating population grew and there wasn't enough good coaches to teach everyone and they spread it through their students. With success. The counterpart is that they tend to consider french figure skating as their property/family. Lucine was not trained by Vaudecrane and is not part of the family. And while he is a great technician and teaches great skating skills (his skaters have probably the best spins or the best spirals in France), he doesn't grow solid competitors. André Brunet (Candeloro's coach) was not completly of the family either. Gwendoline Didier' coach the same.

The thing is the fed is changing and needs to change its policy. Gailhaguet knows that. The number of students those coaches have produced is paying off as they are now the coaches of the younger champions. There is less need to concentrate the good skaters in few centers. And those ex-students are less into "the family" thing / old quarrels. In the years to come, there will be a new generation rising and the FFSG will change, will become less centralized. Then it will let its old quarrels aside but may also lose the good things of the familial side.
For example, as much as Gailhaguet was angry with Brunet or Jeannette, he has named them teamleaders at Euros and Worlds. Gwendoline Didier is angry with the fed, with Candice Didier and Gilles Beyer but Beyer still invites her in the Stars sur Glace tour, along with Candice and with Gailhaguet's blessing.
It's a family. They may be angry, they may be unfair but they still are a family.

The French Ice Sports Federation and its president, the controversial Didier Gailhaguet, are known for Byzantine team selection processes that often appear to favour certain skaters, particularly those who train in Paris or are coached by Gailhaguet's former wife, Dumont....

In September, a group of coaches, skaters and officials -- including Joubert and Préaubert -- wrote a petition protesting results at the annual Paris Masters event. In response, technical specialists refused to officiate at the 2008 nationals, forcing Gailhaguet to fly in qualified officials from other European countries....
This article is stupid.
How was the french skating federation favoring Annick by refusing to reexamine the degradation of Alban's quad ?
And why link Gailhaguet to a decision of the french fed since he was not president then. He was trying to get the presidency back. Some bad press about Ancelet was involved.

I've actually watched that jump image by image and Alban's quad was definitly cheated.
The technical panel (Fernand Fédronic, Laetitia Hubert and Elisabeth Louesdon who are not exactly beginners nor Annick's ennemies) had it right, despite Annick's fury and Brian's support to his friend.
And the results have been rightfully maintained.
 
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Wow, great posts, Nmsis! Thanks for the inside information (especially post 36. :rock: )
 
I'm not sure I'd compare Worlds 2008 with the Challenge Cup, but regardless Worlds 2008 is not Zelenka's PB, it's his season's best. His PB is 191.73 from when he finished 7th at 2007 Euros. Anyway, my point was not that he's necessarily better than Contesti (whom I can't recall ever seeing skate, so I can't really judge) but that Joe's suggestion that Contesti is "up against no one for a national title in Italy" is inaccurate.

I knew World's 2008 was Zelenka's Season's Best, and I was comparing that score to Contesti's most recent score. One fact: Zelenka has neither 3A nor quad, while Contesti was landing 3A solo and in combination back in the 2004-2005 season and landed both in the International Challenge Cup FS.

Contesti will have to settle for International "B" competitions this coming season, as he is not on the Season's Best list, since he did not skate in any GP or ISU Championships last season.
 
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The same case happened in Japan where Ando was qualified for the Olympics as she wasn't on Nationals' podium. The rules were similar. But nobody complained, even if it raised some eyebrows.
The controversy over Ando is that she had a weak Nationals, but was placed/scored exactly where she needed to be to qualify for the Olympics. The source of the controversy was the same as when Kwan was placed on the team: Ando was heavily sponsored and had been for years, and the sponsors would have been very unhappy had she not competed. (Nakano had no such sponsors or media frenzy following her every move and recording her every thought.)
 
I knew World's 2008 was Zelenka's Season's Best, and I was comparing that score to Contesti's most recent score. One fact: Zelenka has neither 3A nor quad, while Contesti was landing 3A solo and in combination back in the 2004-2005 season and landed both in the International Challenge Cup FS.
You knew it was his season's best and called it his personal best because...? Why not call it what it is and then compare it to Contesti?

Look, I'm not trying to argue Zelenka is at the top of the current men's class. But he can be a very good skater, with some solid jumps and good spins (he gets lots of level 4s). Considering Contesti's history, both in terms of placements and in terms of scoring, I don't see why you'd automatically consider him superior - even with the 3A. Zelenka has a better PB, a better SB, his best finish at Euros was higher and his best finish at Worlds was higher. They're about the same age, IIRC. All things considered, it seems like it should be pretty even. And since Contesti appears to have taken Stanick Jeannette's place on the French team under somewhat shady circumstances a few years ago :scowl: (as per Nmsis's post), well, I won't wish him ill, but I hope Zelenka will retain his national title :)
 
I didn't say Contesti was superior, I just pointed out that he is a threat to Zelenka for the Italian title. And I don't think it is a major error on my part that I typoed "PB" when I meant "SB".

Zelenka has the experience and the exposure, but let's face it: he hasn't exactly been a world-beater. He didn't make the cut for the FS at Worlds 2006, was 17th at Worlds 2007, and 16th at Worlds 2008. At the age of 25 with no 3A, he probably isn't going to rise much higher.

Contesti is also 25 and does have a 3A, but no quad. The fact that he has had very little opportunity to compete internationally over the past 3 seasons will hurt him when it comes to scoring. This season, he will be at a disadvantage since he can't get GP invitations. But with some International "B"s under his belt, he does have the potential to beat Zelenka at Nationals this season or next, and set himself up for a shot at the Italian Olympic spot.
 
chuckm said:
Zelenka has the experience and the exposure, but let's face it: he hasn't exactly been a world-beater. He didn't make the cut for the FS at Worlds 2006, was 17th at Worlds 2007, and 16th at Worlds 2008.
So what? Contesti went to Worlds in 2005 and failed to qualify for the LP - and there's no way you can argue the standard of competition that year was particularly high. You stated in two posts that you considered Contesti the stronger skater; I pointed out there was currently little evidence to back that up. Maybe he'll be great in 2009, but right now he's pretty much unproven. If you enjoy his skating, that's fine. I just think we should hold off on crowning him the 2009 Italian national champion. (Edited to add: I was not aware that he won 2008 nationals in Italy. I still think it can go to either of them next year).

You know, this brings me back to the original subject, which is Contesti getting left off the 2006 Olympic team in favor of Dambier. On second thought, though I dislike all the litigation and machinations involved, I think the French got it right. (Cue another stroll through the ISU archives...:)) Dambier was a proven quantity who'd had two consecutive top tens at Worlds and who finished 4th at Europeans in 2006 behind two eventual Olympic medalists (though it was not a vintage competition). He'd been skating senior competitions for France since 2001, had done ok at SLC (11th, ahead of then 17-year old Brian Joubert), and helped earn France's third spot to Moscow 2005, of which Contesti was the beneficiary, by placing ninth in Dortmund a year earlier. Also, he had a quad (Sal). Contesti was relatively inexperienced and had not done as well in 2005. So upon further consideration, despite not being a fan at all, I believe Dambier earned his ticket to Torino; it's the 19th place he had there that was out of character, and was his lowest placement at any competition in his senior career as far as I can tell. I wonder if all the legal stuff preceeding the games affected his preparation?

A correction: from my browse through the profiles, Contesti being chosen to compete in 2005 instead of Jeannette appears to be a fair decision; Stannick finished behind him at French nats. It was Damien Djordjevic who got Jeannette's slot at 2004 Euros despite finishing fourth at Nationals. Stupid decision: he finished 19th.
 
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