Edward Vasii returned to skating after knee surgery . Looks like he'll be back next season.
2023-24 Canadian Figure Skating
- Thread starter 4everchan
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- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
Happy he's back.. But I miss him already
ISU Championships Selection Criteria is up. I was waiting to see what they would have for 4CC considering the entries are due January 9th:
I wouldn't be surprised if they used Skate Canada Challenge as part of the relevant criteria for selection, especially with the women.
I wouldn't be surprised if they used Skate Canada Challenge as part of the relevant criteria for selection, especially with the women.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
They better send Conrad
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
With NHK over, LaLa's spot at GPF is confirmed. Half the dance competitors come from Canada. Let's hope for a medal at least.
In pairs, it will also be interesting with 2 Canadian teams, 2 Italian teams and 2 German teams.
With the +2a SEQ possibility it really helps teams who can do 3x+2a+2a and Trennt and Lia can do that. They need to nail their SBS and that may look good for them. The twist is still a very important factor in the SP but the SBS jumps are more important than ever in the LP.
I think there is a good chance for two medals here with Deanna and Max + Lia and Trennt considering both teams' results this year.
Men = disaster season again. We have to go back to before covid (covid year doesn't count in my books for the bronze Keegan got at local SKAM) to see our skaters on the podium at GPs. Only 2 were given 2 spots, 2 received only one host spot. Skate Canada must react if it wants to remain in the game as an all-around skating country. Right now, Canada is struggling in both men and women.
Maddie did well with 4th and 5th places. Having better shorts may have helped rewarding her LPs better. Yet, her BV is lower than most. She does two big combos in the LP (3z-3t and 2a-3t) yet with the new rules (+2a) some other skaters have proven that one can do a LP without any +3 combo and still rack up the points. Maddie and her team may need to be more strategic.
We cannot really talk much about the other women. Host spots only.
As the GP season ends, I question once more, the lack of challenger events given to our skaters. They are at a very big disadvantage compared to most European skaters to start with. The pressure is too high when too few opportunities are given to our skaters.
In pairs, it will also be interesting with 2 Canadian teams, 2 Italian teams and 2 German teams.
With the +2a SEQ possibility it really helps teams who can do 3x+2a+2a and Trennt and Lia can do that. They need to nail their SBS and that may look good for them. The twist is still a very important factor in the SP but the SBS jumps are more important than ever in the LP.
I think there is a good chance for two medals here with Deanna and Max + Lia and Trennt considering both teams' results this year.
Men = disaster season again. We have to go back to before covid (covid year doesn't count in my books for the bronze Keegan got at local SKAM) to see our skaters on the podium at GPs. Only 2 were given 2 spots, 2 received only one host spot. Skate Canada must react if it wants to remain in the game as an all-around skating country. Right now, Canada is struggling in both men and women.
Maddie did well with 4th and 5th places. Having better shorts may have helped rewarding her LPs better. Yet, her BV is lower than most. She does two big combos in the LP (3z-3t and 2a-3t) yet with the new rules (+2a) some other skaters have proven that one can do a LP without any +3 combo and still rack up the points. Maddie and her team may need to be more strategic.
We cannot really talk much about the other women. Host spots only.
As the GP season ends, I question once more, the lack of challenger events given to our skaters. They are at a very big disadvantage compared to most European skaters to start with. The pressure is too high when too few opportunities are given to our skaters.
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- Oct 20, 2017
If Canada wants a shot at the Team event and team medal at 2026 Olympics, they need to send their skaters to more competitions. The US, too.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
The US is in better shape for the team event though, having won medals in all disciplines on GP this year. But they need to be careful as they also could send their developing skaters out more.
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- Mar 7, 2015
Junior Grand prix
Medal table
| Rank | Nation | Gold | Silver | Bronze | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 
| 6 | 5 | 5 | 16 |
| 2 | 
| 5 | 5 | 5 | 15 |
| 3 | 
| 3 | 7 | 4 | 14 |
| 4 | 
| 2 | 3 | 0 | 5 |
| 5 | 
| 2 | 1 | 3 | 6 |
| 6 | 
| 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
But if things keep going the way they are Canada will have only one lady and one man for the Olympics in 2026. Which puts a lot of pressure on that one. Look at what happened to Maddie at the last Olympics - great programs in the team event but she burned out by the time of her the single skates.
- Joined
- May 25, 2014
I often think when I read this thread that even though the US could do better getting its skaters out, it does much better than Canada does. I say this not to be unkind but rather I'm grateful the US makes some attempt -- and maybe it's my imagination, but I feel like it's improved in recent years. And I feel bad that Canada doesn't.
4EC I know you are especially passionate on the subject. Have you ever shared your thoughts with Skate Canada? Ted Barton seems accessible. I'd be curious how they would answer you.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
The one time I reached out to Skate Canada about something else which was nothing of that scope nor importance, I found that communication was not facilitated. I don't think they really want to hear about casual fans like me. I think Ravi Walia, Yvan Desjardins, Stéphane Yvars, Scott Davis and other prominent coaches need to be the ones advocating for their skaters. I am sure some have done it.
I wonder if some of the Canadian fans who are more involved in the sport (won't tag them, they can speak up if they wish to do so) are aware about this discussion happening or not right now with Skate Canada.
Like seriously, I am all up for the criteria being respected to send skaters out to international assignments but if Justine hadn't skated so well at CQÉ, she wouldn't even have been sent to ACI which is in her hometown... Why not max out on Canadian representation once every two years when such an event happens in everyone's backyard ? (and I say max out ironically because for Challengers, hosts have complete freedom in how many skaters they can have)....
What will happen is simple : Sports Canada or whatever entity allocates funding to federations will look at the results and cut the funding drastically. It will only consider medal hopes in dance and pairs... no longer in the team event and definitely not in singles where even top ten seems out of reach at this point.
If the funding is cut, Skate Canada will have to make difficult choices : do they keep the funding for pairs and dance which means pretty much cutting the funding in singles or do they spread it around which would mean less money for medal hopes ???
I am mentioning this hypothetical scenario because it has happened in other sports : most recently in downhill skiing. At some point, the funding was cut in speed events in women. The downhill specialist for Canada had to fund her own world cup participation. It goes back and forth depending on results : sometimes, as the technical events (slalom etc) do better, they get the funding and the speed events get cut and vice versa. It is terrible when you think of it as it doesn't support the development of new generations of athletes.
Right now, junior women are very strong in Canada. A lot of money should be invested on these young athletes. There are about 6-10 of them who can challenge in seniors very soon. Considering how young Kaiya, Fiona, Sara-Maude, Justine and even Maddie still are, I have a hard time imagining how Skate Canada will nurture a dozen women in the next couple years. However, if they do not, and focus on the top 3, then the other ones will not develop fully. Junior women will be a wake up call soon for Skate Canada. They woke up with ice dance... but not with pairs. They seem to have given up on senior singles at this point already.
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- Mar 7, 2015
And of course, when Keegan got stuck with covid, it meant that all the pressure was on Roman and he faltered.
Maddie saved Canada in the team event. Without her contribution, Canada would't have even made it to the LPs. I can easily imagine, knowing how strong Canada is in pairs and dance that the lone single athletes may feel so much pressure at what could be their first olympics... and not deliver for the team. WTT is a different animal but it should be a good indicative of what Canada is able to do .
Just as reminder.. and yes, I know the team event is another format
but it is still paints a very clear picture1 |
| 120 |
2 |
| 95 |
3 |
| 94 |
4 | 
| 83 |
|---|---|---|
5 | 
| 80 |
6 |
| 68 |
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2018
Challenge in what sense? There isn't anybody in juniors who is internationally competitive.
That doesn't really make much of a difference. Skaters with the potential to matter at the big competitions will get sent out. There's a progression of demonstrating potential that starts at the domestic level.
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- Mar 7, 2015
Your opinion. The six junior women sent out this year would have benefited from another outing. It was Skate Canada's strategy to spread the events. If the top 3 had been given a second outing, they may have done better. Of course, the Koreans and the Japanese are stronger but our women did quite well. They have the 3-3 combos and harder sets of triples. They will reach senior ranks soon and need to be encouraged.
Once more, I disagree with your opinion. There are athletes who have never done well at Nationals and did better internationally. Kevin Reynolds has never won the title of Canadian champion yet won 4CC ahead of Hanyu and placed 5th at worlds. Elladj Balde has never won a national medal yet won a challenger event. Sometimes being in your home pond is like a pressure cooker with friends and family attending. The more anonymous feeling of Series B can be better for some. Also, the ones who are flagged to be representing the country at ISU championships need the international competition experience, not JUST ONE EVENT like it's been the case for most, no matter how they do domestically. They will HAVE to skate with the bigger names sooner or later, so keeping them at home, with the pretext that actually they didn't do so well in their summer event, when they were learning new programs, is ridiculous and short-sighted. They need to get out there, 3-4 times, just like many of the European skaters do. My opinion obviously.
ETA look at Lukas or Gabriele. How many events do they do? Even Adam. A few years ago, Lukas could not escape the short program at worlds. Adam wasn't a GPF finalist and world contender. These two have improved dramatically with the number of events they are doing every year. Gabriele is still young and inconsistent but his competition nerves are getting better and he did manage to control the damage in NHK, something a less experienced skater like Wesley wasn't able to do. It is not rocket science.
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- Mar 7, 2015
and finally, look at Ziegler. She is not the top contender for the USA. She doesn't do a triple-triple in her LP. She is young and this is only her second season on the circuit. Let's leave the GP out of this because it's on invitation. As we can see here, she was signed up for 1 or 2 smaller events, 2 or 3 challenger events each season. None of the Canadian women, even Maddie gets that many international events. When there are no opportunities, there is no development. Her NHK win may have been an outlier but at the same time, it certainly can boost her confidence and mean a lot for her future competitions.
| Event | 22–23 | 23–24 |
|---|---|---|
GP NHK Trophy | 1st | |
GP Skate Canada | 4th | |
CS Budapest Trophy | 1st | |
CS Finlandia Trophy | 5th | |
CS Golden Spin | WD | |
CS Lombardia Trophy | 6th | |
| 4th | ||
| 3rd | ||
| 2nd |
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2018
Reynolds made the national podium six times. He did very well at nationals; that he never won a national title is more reflective of the presence of Patrick Chan. Reynolds is a good example of what I mean, he was consistently competitive nationally and had some occasional good international events.
It's not merely a matter of summer competitions. You build your reputation year over year, competition by competition. Start nailing it at nationals, and you'll get internationals the following year.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
One could argue that Reynolds medals at nationals were also due to poor results from other skaters who lacked competition opportunities.
We saw what happened when Fiona nailed it at nationals. Couldn't go to 4CC because she didn't have tes minimums. Was assigned one spring event but was injured and had to w/d. Was finally given her first challenger... and she underperformed. Now, she really needs to do well at nationals again, if she hopes for anything international. Talk about the pressure.
We can agree to disagree on this.. but the results are evocative.
The facts are there.
Our skaters get less outings.
Our skaters do not perform very well.
What is the solution? I may be wrong but you are proposing the statu quo. I am suggesting that that more opportunities may help the situation because it's been a few years, since covid that our skaters are not performing. We all saw what the lesser opportunities meant even for the more experienced skaters in 2020-21.
Consistency comes from confidence. Confidence comes from experience. Experience requires opportunities. Opportunities bring on results. Whether they are good or bad, they help building up. Without opportunities, there is nothing possible.
PS the sentence above comes from performance anxiety seminars and coachings I have attended. This is pretty heavily documented. Other field, fine, but same thing. It can take decades to build performance/competition nerves. Figure skaters only have a few years to do so.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
Is that really the case though? This season, Kaiya got three international assignments, Fiona two, and even Maddie, the reigning National Champ, only got two assignments so far from Skate Canada (Cup of China was something she had to earn for herself).
And on the men's side, things aren't better either - Conrad got two assignments, Wesley three, Stephen one (the other competitions Wesley and Stephen did are due to other federations deciding to invite them based on their SB from last season).
And things weren't necessarily better in the past either, Kevin Reynolds was sent out to Worlds and 4CC the season he first placed on the podium at Nationals, but the next season, they didn't even assign him to a Challenger, and though he did Skate Canada, he was entitled to 2 GP assignments anyway (placed in top 12 at Worlds in 2009/10).
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2018
Fiona didn't underperform, she performed in line with how she usually does. Her 2023 nationals result is not her baseline, it's basically the best she's ever done in a competition.
Our pairs and dance teams get the same basic formula (a Challenger or two, as many Grand Prixes as you can earn) and yet they do very well. Which would suggest that the schedule isn't the issue.
That doesn't make sense as a way of looking at it. The federation knows how many total assignments skaters get and factor that into their decisions, not to mention that the federation is typically involved in lobbying to get their skaters invites to other Grand Prix events.
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