2023-24 Canadian Figure Skating

[4everchan]

Wesley talked about feeling the pressure at Junior Worlds after his free. And then he talked about feeling the pressure after ACI after his free there. He is doing better with the 4T this year, but when TSL heard that he had the best performance at HPC due to his 4Lz...

I like Wesley's skating, but not because he's attempted a 4Lz or a 4S this season in addition to the 4T. Good for him for attempting it, but I wish he'd stick with the 4T only for now if he's having issues with pressure.

Exactly. He needs to start skating clean and have a track record of good performance.
You know, Conrad can do all quads but the axel... He is not consistent so he even has a plan triple toe in his LP. At this point, he seems to manage the first two quads and then he lacks focus/stamina for the rest of the program.. but it's already progress.
Step by step... the issue is that step by step in Canadian skating means really slowly improving because the guys do not get outings.

 

[saine]

Exactly. He needs to start skating clean and have a track record of good performance.
You know, Conrad can do all quads but the axel... He is not consistent so he even has a plan triple toe in his LP. At this point, he seems to manage the first two quads and then he lacks focus/stamina for the rest of the program.. but it's already progress.
Step by step... the issue is that step by step in Canadian skating means really slowly improving because the guys do not get outings.

I thought the solo 3T was planned, but then I looked at his planned content for SCI. It was supposed to be a 4T, with two 3Ts in combo. I'm not surprised he's losing focus if that is what he is going for.

I don't think he needs the three quads in the free right now if that third quad is making him do jump calculus while performing. He won silver at Nationals with the one quad in the free, he should be fine sticking with the two quads.

Definitely, if they aren't getting the outings, cutting the quads would help more than adding quads.

 

[Sackie]

Yes Quads may be important down the road but first you need the good results to be taken seriously. In JRs a lot of USA men can get good results even without a 3A. Then when they step up to SRs they are scoring better because they have already done well in JRs.

 

[Colonel Green]

Wesley Chiu is who Skate Canada seem to view as their future no.1, though. I can entirely see a potential scenario where the Japanese Fed/NHK organisers might approach Skate Canada with a 'we want to invite one of your skaters from the replacement list, should it be Conrad Orzel or Wesley Chiu?' and SC saying Chiu.

That's a possibility but of course, it's also hypothetical. I simply thought that Chiu being Vancouver based was a better choice for NHK. I know he is young, but if he had rotated a simple triple instead of popping two jumps at junior worlds last year, he would have medaled. At some point, he will have to do better. I was very impressed with Wesley a couple years ago but I don't feel he has taken his skating much further and struggles with the same issues competition after competition. I also don't find him as charismatic as Roman or even Conrad. He has had more outings than many on top of that.

To whatever extent they might view Chiu more favourably (I don't know whether they actually do), I would guess it's simply because they consider it more likely that 18-year-old Wesley will develop more markedly than Conrad (age 23) and Roman (age 24). He's also short, which, yeah, that does help.

 

[4everchan]

To whatever extent they might view Chiu more favourably (I don't know whether they actually do), I would guess it's simply because they consider it more likely that 18-year-old Wesley will develop more markedly than Conrad (age 23) and Roman (age 24). He's also short, which, yeah, that does help.

Fair enough.. but at the same time, he is not ready right now. Gogo is also the same age and he is at least able to land his two different quads. Other issues of course. Roman and Conrad are perhaps on the way out (couple years from now maybe) but they do represent what is available right now. If I were Skate Canada, I would do my best to save the two spots. At this point in time, none of our men look good to make the LP. I have seen Conrad and Stephen are capable of landing a two quad SP and that is necessary at this point because none of our guys will get high PCS. Maybe Roman if he is indeed recovered enough. Will have to see what happens this weekend at Challenge (though Stephen w/d UGH) and at Golden Spin. Seriously, sending the guys to Golden Spin instead of Challenge would have been smarter. Make the top 3-4 guys compete at the same event. Create some healthy rivalry.

 

[Sackie]

Healthy rivalry is what is missing for sure. It just seems at this point that no one wants to step up as the front runner. I really believe Buttle won worlds because he was so motivated after he lost his CAN title to Chan. And when Shandu was skating he and Buttle pushed each other to do better, and this resulted in CAN having 2 men in the top 10 some years. And I remember the year CAN men went 1,2,3 at SCI, because they were pushing each other to be better. This year it seemed they were content going for the best placement in the bottom half.
Our best women results have come when we had strong rivalries: Liz and Kate; Josee and Karen; Katelyn, Gobby and Alaine. Our men at the moment remind me more of the years we had Jennifer Robinson and the rest. No one really rose to the top. They had the goods but just never seem to put it together so we spent several years with a new champ each year, where the champ was the one that made the fewer mistakes. Not a good way to send a champ off to worlds. Yes Jennifer was able to place well at worlds some years but that was more because she created her own rivalry with herself.

 

[saine]

I was hoping for more of that rivalry and pushing to come out before Nationals. I have some hope for Conrad since he wasn't happy with how he did at SCI and wants to get on the podium again. He should win Challenge now that Stephen wd, but I want some pushing from Aleksa and Matthew.

 

[4everchan]

I was hoping for more of that rivalry and pushing to come out before Nationals. I have some hope for Conrad since he wasn't happy with how he did at SCI and wants to get on the podium again. He should win Challenge now that Stephen wd, but I want some pushing from Aleksa and Matthew.

I hope Conrad wins Challenge but I think winning won't be enough. He needs to show two good programs. Doesn't need to be perfect, but solid. 75+ in SP 145+ in LP, ideally 80+/150+

 

[saine]

I hope Conrad wins Challenge but I think winning won't be enough. He needs to show two good programs. Doesn't need to be perfect, but solid. 75+ in SP 145+ in LP

Pretty much how I feel. Matthew won last year with a score of 217 (73/143), so hopefully the winning score will be more than that this year. And hopefully Matthew does better here than he did at Alberta sectionals and meets that score again.

 

[4everchan]

with 4CC early this year and in China (visas etc) my feeling is that men selected for 4CC will be competing for either 1 spot or even both of the available spots for worlds.
The issue : there are 4 men in the conversation and 3 spots at 4cc that need to be decided early on.

Stephen and Wesley had a second outing closer to challenge. Conrad will be at Challenge and Roman at Golden Spin.

Also, they could decide that Wesley will be doing junior worlds anyway and make it among the 3 others.

But yeah, I have the feeling that nationals will not be conclusive unless there is a clear winner... they did that last year, assigning Keegan and having Stephen and Conrad fight for the 2nd spot.

That's perhaps why they didn't send the guys to Golden Spin... they will use 4CC. It's okay but it's very late IMHO.

 

[Ziotic]

Realistically, I can’t see them sending anyone other than Wesley to JW

 

[4everchan]

Realistically, I can’t see them sending anyone other than Wesley to JW

WIth Edward injured, that's right... and maybe that's why Wesley could have been pushed for summer/fall assignments by Skate Canada as they would already know he is not going to 4CC ?

 

[rain]

Healthy rivalry is what is missing for sure. It just seems at this point that no one wants to step up as the front runner. I really believe Buttle won worlds because he was so motivated after he lost his CAN title to Chan. And when Shandu was skating he and Buttle pushed each other to do better, and this resulted in CAN having 2 men in the top 10 some years. And I remember the year CAN men went 1,2,3 at SCI, because they were pushing each other to be better. This year it seemed they were content going for the best placement in the bottom half.
Our best women results have come when we had strong rivalries: Liz and Kate; Josee and Karen; Katelyn, Gobby and Alaine. Our men at the moment remind me more of the years we had Jennifer Robinson and the rest. No one really rose to the top. They had the goods but just never seem to put it together so we spent several years with a new champ each year, where the champ was the one that made the fewer mistakes. Not a good way to send a champ off to worlds. Yes Jennifer was able to place well at worlds some years but that was more because she created her own rivalry with herself.

Remember when Kurt and Elvis were 1-2 in the WORLD?

 

[4everchan]

Remember when Kurt and Elvis were 1-2 in the WORLD?

and the year before, 2nd and 3rd

Canada got used to having great men skaters. Even more recently with Jeff and Patrick. This drought is way too long.

 

[Sackie]

Back then it really seemed that as soon as one left there was someone in the wings ready to take over. Brian, then Kurt, then Elvis, then Emmanuel and Jeff, then Patrick then Keeghan, then ..... We did have several JRs who seemed to be the next ones but their success was fleeting.

 

[ladyjane]

Don't forget Kevin Reynolds. He might not have won your Nationals but he was pretty successful internationally!

 

[4everchan]

Corey is indeed listed as participating in Italian nationals. There are five men competing, so he will be, at worse, top 5.

 

[4everchan]

BTW. I was looking at the Italian nationals list. It's truly amazing how much success they generate internationally with the very few athletes they have. I wonder if it has to do with doing challengers in Europe ...

 

[saine]

Update from Gabrielle Daleman. Hopefully next season will go better for her.

 

[Dr. Jenn]

Update from Gabrielle Daleman. Hopefully next season will go better for her.

Thanks for sharing. Poor Gabby just can't seem to catch a break! Hopefully this will be the end of her bad luck, and 2024 will be a better, healthier year for her.