Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Amei]

Hmm, what came first though, the chicken or the egg?

The choice to dope in the first place came way before it came down to lab testing, and fingerpointing about 'lab error.' A whole slew of faulty errors are involved in this sad trajectory of events.

I literally said it doesn't excuse the doping. But the lab was supposed to return the results within a timetable they did not and they should be sanctioned/reprimanded accordingly.

Had they followed proper procedure Valieva wouldn't have been at the Olympics and Valieva's doping wouldn't have impacted the Olympics other than being a sidestory of the Olympic favorite being out.

 

[Mathematician]

Literally no one (else) is suggesting that Valieva be crucified, hung, burned at the stake, or imprisoned for the rest of her life. That’s just completely ridiculous and absurd.

But there are rules, and she has to follow them.

Its hanged, not hung. And yea, she should be banned from competing, not from life. As someone else made examples of what life is: hobbies, education, friendships... she is banned from literally everything how is she not even allowed to just train??

I'm sorry that you are so caught up in anger. It is not at all helpful to you or to anyone else.

Projecting and zero points made

 

[Andrina]

The entire life of a 17-years-old girl is resumed to figure skating? No school, no universities, no education, no friends, no hobbies, just figure skating? Well, if so, then that's a really tragic case.

Patronizingly appraising my comment as a good job? Nice turn in a conversation.

Papadakis plays guitar. Chock has a start-up. Simon Ammann even worked as a software engineer. Even the best athletes need hobbies to not burn out. But who knows, maybe those who don't, they compensate it with doping.

 

[Ziotic]

I literally said it doesn't excuse the doping. But the lab was supposed to return the results within a timetable they did not and they should be sanctioned/reprimanded accordingly.

Had they followed proper procedure Valieva wouldn't have been at the Olympics and Valieva's doping wouldn't have impacted the Olympics other than being a sidestory of the Olympic favorite being out.

I may be wrong, but I think the lab had processed it just within the guidelines, but it was much more delayed then typical due to the pandemic and RUSADA not labelling it as priority.

 

[lariko]

Indeed, her penalty of being banned from life was appropriate I agree. And clean sport does not exist so keep dreaming.

That's exactly the backward thinking that leads to your disbelief in the face of logic and rule-following. I get it that Russians are severely jaded in that respect, but, well, that's how it's normally done. Those who break the rules receive a predetermined penalty. There is no riding past the gates of Paradise on others' backs.

Instead of hyspefixating on Valieva's alleged sorrow, try applying your empathy to every other Russian athlete who had never tested positive--that girl skating on her frozen swamp to get into nationals, for example--and for once, feel for those who did everything right and were humiliated for it.

That's justice, and that's to be celebrated.

 

[icewhite]

Um yes they literally barely do school, all of their schooling is done at the skating academy, they even get degrees in sport education and guess which sport she focused on on her studies, her friends are all at the skating academy and professional athletes dont have "hobbies" or they wouldnt be the best. So good job, you deduced that it really is a tragic case.



I agree entirely. In fact I think maybe we should just lynch her, which do you think: crucifixion, burned at the stake or hanging? Or is this too merciful, maybe she should be placed in a prison for life with a pair of skates hanging before her eyes and old videos of her programs playing. I mean, after all, she is cheater cheater pumpkin eater do not let her prosper. PERIOD.

I mean what do you want though?
No punishment because skating is her life? Anti doping does not work that way.
No punishment because she's a teenager and the real fault lies with whoever made her take this? Okay, but for that she would need to come forward. I admit she basically cannot do that, the people she would fight against are probably too powerful. But if we let this go through, we basically give all powerful people interested in doping young athletes a free pass.

For those who see a victim in Kamila (and I do to some relevant degree) they should ask who is really at fault for her being in such a situation. And it's definitely not the people trying to clean this up.

Sure, there have been other athletes whose silly excuses were accepted and who got away for some reason or only got mild punishment. That's because it's always really hard for anti doping. Kamila's side could have come up with a much better strategy to defend her, that would have helped her a lot. But her defenders were also maybe more interested in deflecting the blame from the people who are actually responsible as they were in her.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

They are the only ones who were making decisions and were privy to what happened. I would believe their testimonies in respect to what data they had on the table. Journalist wasn't there, period.

It's very questionable that Russian fed authorities were completely unaware of all details involved prior to making their team selection decisions.

 

[Mathematician]

Patronizingly appraising my comment as a good job? Nice turn in a conversation.

Papadakis plays guitar. Chock has a start-up. Simon Ammann even worked as a software engineer. Even the best athletes need hobbies to not burn out. But who knows, maybe those who don't, they compensate it with doping.

You actually have zero sympathy is crazy. You can just sit in your chair and act condescending. And yea, hobbies are to wind down IN ADDITION to your life, not replace the entire basis on what ur life is founded upon since 5 y/o, friendships, education, career...

 

[Mathematician]

I mean what do you want though?
No punishment because skating is her life? Anti doping does not work that way.
No punishment because she's a teenager and the real fault lies with whoever made her take this? Okay, but for that she would need to come forward. I admit she basically cannot do that, the people she would fight against are probably too powerful. But if we let this go through, we basically give all powerful people interested in doping young athletes a free pass.

For those who see a victim in Kamila (and I do to some relevant degree) they should ask who is really at fault for her being in such a situation. And it's definitely not the people trying to clean this up.

Sure, there have been other athletes whose silly excuses were accepted and who got away for some reason or only got mild punishment. That's because it's always really hard for anti doping. Kamila's side could have come up with a much better strategy to defend her, that would have helped her a lot. But her defenders were also maybe more interested in deflecting the blame from the people who are actually responsible as they were in her.

What are you talking about no punishment for. Ban her from competing, thats how every sport works. She shouldnt be banned from even going to the academy she grew up in, did all her education in, made all her friends there and borderline lives in wtf

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I literally said it doesn't excuse the doping. But the lab was supposed to return the results within a timetable they did not and they should be sanctioned/reprimanded accordingly.

Had they followed proper procedure Valieva wouldn't have been at the Olympics and Valieva's doping wouldn't have impacted the Olympics other than being a sidestory of the Olympic favorite being out.

Again, lab is not responsible for doping choices made in the first place. Nor are they responsible for faulty decisions made by selection committee, who had full knowledge that doping test results were outstanding.

 

[Mathematician]

That's exactly the backward thinking that leads to your disbelief in the face of logic and rule-following. I get it that Russians are severely jaded in that respect, but, well, that's how it's normally done. Those who break the rules receive a predetermined penalty. There is no riding past the gates of Paradise on others' backs.

Instead of hyspefixating on Valieva's alleged sorrow, try applying your empathy to every other Russian athlete who had never tested positive--that girl skating on her frozen swamp to get into nationals, for example--and for once, feel for those who did everything right and were humiliated for it.

That's justice, and that's to be celebrated.

Valieva didnt affevt those other girls at all lol, did Russia get banned for Valieva doping? No they got banned becquse they started bombing another sovereign nation. LMAO. And yea every single sport NFL, NBA, FIFA, Gymnastics, Wrestling, Fighting... are all dominated by people blasting 100x what Kamila is taking. Go ahead and put together the resources to combat that or focus on something that actually matters, talk about backwards thinking. Yea she popped and she got banned but dont destroy her life.

 

[icewhite]

By the way I don't think the situation is so terrible for Kamila. Almost everyone in Russia seems to support her. Nobody thinks the 15 year old did this on her own, so they either think she was framed or doped unknowingly or only did what she was told. Her reputation is not destroyed. Outside of Russia most people direct the blame at her coaches and the system, not at her as a person.
She could skate like every other Russian athlete these past two years, and two years of the ban are already over without her having to stop skating at all in that time. She gets the Olympic gold taken from her, but, I would assume, not the benefits that come with it in Russia, and her name will be remembered forever despite that. At this point she would either stop competitive skating anyway like many Russian girls have before her, or she tries to go the Tuktamysheva way - in that case she only has to spend two years with elemental physical training and will be able to start remounting again in two years. (Or Russia does even actually not accept the verdict and lets her skate anyway.) In any case she can be a moderator, model and whatnot and be famous and popular and make money. There are dopers who have fallen much, much lower.

 

[Remilia]

I have a hard time believing that the rusfed was 100% aware of Kamila's positive test. If they were aware, I don't think they'd be that dumb to just ignore it and still have her skate in the team event, risking the medal. But to this day, I still don't understand their decision to not sub any of the skaters for the free event portion. Either Anna or Sasha could have gone out, fallen multiple times, and still ended up in 1st.

 

[icewhite]

Valieva didnt affevt those other girls at all lol, did Russia get banned for Valieva doping? No they got banned becquse they started bombing another sovereign nation. LMAO. And yea every single sport NFL, NBA, FIFA, Gymnastics, Wrestling, Fighting... are all dominated by people blasting 100x what Kamila is taking. Go ahead and put together the resources to combat that or focus on something that actually matters, talk about backwards thinking. Yea she popped and she got banned but dont destroy her life.

Anti doping efforts are stronger in some sports though, especially in Olympic ones where there is usually not the money and the power to buy yourself free and in some sports it's sometimes more about the show than about the sport. There are always imbalances. There was a huge scandal in cycling (already a pro sport, but not as big as others) where many cyclists were popped and the story is that the responsible doctor when he learned the names that went public asked "and where are all my soccer players"?

 

[icewhite]

What are you talking about no punishment for. Ban her from competing, thats how every sport works. She shouldnt be banned from even going to the academy she grew up in, did all her education in, made all her friends there and borderline lives in wtf

So you basically say doping should be allowed?

 

[Mathematician]

So you basically say doping should be allowed?

Well, I'm not saying Kamila shouldnt be banned from competing, because the fact of the matter is that it is banned. But people here talk about clean sport like Valieva committed a mortal sin corrupting some system of virtuous athletes which is extremely not true. I also dont think she should be banned from just training and going where she grew up.

If you are asking about my idea of what the rules should be moving forward in general for sport, I dont know. I dont have the required specific information to know if doping being allowed and open would benefit the world. But anybody who says they are 100% sure it wouldnt, probably has no clue what theyre talking about.

 

[sailormoon]

It has been two years since the Beijing Winter Olympics and the decision was finally made by the CAS Panel. Back then, I was so preoccupied with the Olympic events that I missed dangerou signs and symptoms that led to my mother's hospitalization with a stroke just after the Olympics. This controversy always reminds me of my mother's passing.

 

[Tyranid]

Well, I'm not saying Kamila shouldnt be banned from competing, because the fact of the matter is that it is banned. But people here talk about clean sport like Valieva committed a mortal sin corrupting some system of virtuous athletes which is extremely not true. I also dont think she should be banned from just training and going where she grew up.

If you are asking about my idea of what the rules should be moving forward in general for sport, I dont know. I dont have the required specific information to know if doping being allowed and open would benefit the world. But anybody who says they are 100% sure it wouldnt, probably has no clue what theyre talking about.

BTW, wanna let you know that figure skating doesn't have world records (or any sort of records) since the scores are subjective. So anytime you call Valieva (or, say, Kostornaya before her, or Kim Yuna even before that) a world record holder, you are incorrect. You can check the official ISU documents regarding that issue. They officially call it "highest scores" or "season/personal best".

 

[Alex Fedorov]

There are doping guidelines in place which everyone must follow. We have to trust the systems that are in place, no matter how faulty or slow when controversies and difficulties arise.

Do you want to trust the system? Well then, first, look this system in the face:

It should be added that WADA committed gross violations against Valieva - she was interrogated without accompanying persons and without a lawyer, and information about a protected person was also disclosed, which led to a hysterical campaign in the media and attacks on Kamila on social networks. At the same time, WADA officials, instead of calling journalists to order, actually orchestrated this campaign, periodically making open accusations against Valieva, thereby putting pressure on the court.

This is how the “system” you propose to trust works. For one athlete - the law, punishment and, on top of punishment, also bullying in cyberspace, and for an athlete from a “good” country - kindness, understanding, leniency and forgiveness.

 

[Mathematician]

BTW, wanna let you know that figure skating doesn't have world records (or any sort of records) since the scores are subjective. So anytime you call Valieva (or, say, Kostornaya before her, or Kim Yuna even before that) a world record holder, you are incorrect. You can check the official ISU documents regarding that issue. They officially call it "highest scores" or "season/personal best".

Same effect but sounds better, cool info though