Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[el henry]

 

[NaVi]

WIll be interesting to see how this influence decisions on retiring or returning for 2026.

 

[moonvine]

Keep speculating bud, I go by numbers not guesses. ISU says she has the record. Medals corrode but numbers are forever.

Until someone breaks it.

 

[TallyT]

Boy, the gloating starts at once, doesn't it? Ugly, vulgar, tacky, and it's sad that I'm not surprised.

 

[readernick]

Boy, the gloating starts at once, doesn't it? Ugly, vulgar, tacky, and I'm not surprised.

Is it ugly to congratulate clean athletes who have waited for years to receive their medals? If so, why?

Or, is it ugly, vile, tacky, and reprehensible to dope a teenage girl without regard for her health or the effect it would have on other skaters?

I think the second situation is actually the vulgar one. Congratulating athletes on winning has never been ugly IMHO.

 

[Mathematician]

1) When your life is competitive figure skating as you say it is for Kamila, you are aware that getting a doping infraction will nix your access to skating. It's a risk that was taken by her and/or her team. You risk getting burned when you play with fire.

2) The reason for the ban (training included) is very simple : it's a question of sports integrity. You cannot have people who have received a doping infraction keep their usual training at their usual venues or any venue where other eligible athletes are training. 1) By respect for clean athletes training there who may not be thrilled having to train with someone who cheated. 2) To keep the reputation and integrity of the sport, in the sense that someone under a suspension for doping, shouldn't be associated with eligible athletes sharing the same coach and medical team. How would that look like ? Seriously. It would give the impression that doping is accepted and correct. 3) To preserve the reputation of the sport for sponsors and fans.

This is why these rules are there. It's not only to punish an offender but to protect everything else.

I appreciate that you answered the question at hand instead of literally lying about what I said (for zero reason), you seem to be in good faith, I dont disregard the perspective you offered as invalid.

However I see that they already share the same coach and medical team which everyone knows is the actual source of any of this. Respect for clean athletes is shown by banning her from competition and giving them their medals. She needs to be allowed the opportunity to continue her life somewhere, if it isnt at Sambo even, but where else then? How ambiguous are the rules? It seems needless, to me, extra.

Until someone breaks it.

Until then buddy, until then. Until we get 10, 100, 500 new gold medalists, until, until... You can wait until anything never matters again, because everybody forgets everything, and everything has been done over endlessly. Achievement is achievement, and all achievement is only something until...

 

[TallyT]

Is it ugly to congratulate clean athletes who have waited for years to receive their medals? If so, why?

Or, is it ugly, vile, tacky, and reprehensible to dope a teenage girl without regard for her health or the effect it would have on other skaters?

I think the second situation is actually the vulgar one. Congratulating athletes on winning has never been ugly IMHO.

The doping was far worse, we all know that. It wasn't vulgar, it was criminally evil. It doesn't make the rushrushrush to slaveringly self-congratulate before the ink is dry on a teenager's tragedy any less tacky. Especially given the way they always ask for time and space with one of their own scandals.

 

[4everchan]

I appreciate that you answered the question at hand instead of literally lying about what I said (for zero reason), you seem to be in good faith, I dont disregard the perspective you offered as invalid.

However I see that they already share the same coach and medical team which everyone knows is the actual source of any of this. Respect for clean athletes is shown by banning her from competition and giving them their medals. She needs to be allowed the opportunity to continue her life somewhere, if it isnt at Sambo even, but where else then? How ambiguous are the rules? It seems needless, to me, extra.

It's very simple. Your vision of what constitutes respect is a fan's vision. The athletes have a code of ethics they must follow. They have to abide to rules set out by the governing bodies, IOC, ISU, WADA, etc. At that point, if the rules have not been followed, the ban is in place.
As many have said, Kamila has had a good outcome because she wasn't suspended the last couple years. Her ban will only, in reality, be two years. I know it's a long time for a young athlete, especially a figure skater.
At the same time, there needs to be a clear message that it is NOT okay to dope a child. I would ask for her entire entourage to be banned as well... but how to prove it ?

 

[readernick]

The doping was far worse, we all know that. It wasn't vulgar, it was criminally evil. It doesn't make the rushrushrush to slaveringly self-congratulate before the ink is dry on a teenager's tragedy any less tacky. Especially given the way they always ask for time and space with one of their own scandals.

The athletes waited two years to receive their medals. Nothing tacky about congratulating them for finally receiving them. The harm done to that poor girl was not caused by the USFS. It was done by her team. The USFS has no obligation or ability to fix the harm caused to her. They are solely responsible to their own athletes. They have a right and an obligation to promote their athletes' interests. Talking about other scandals can be done under threads devoted to that. It has nothing to do with this situation.

 

[Mathematician]

It's very simple. Your vision of what constitutes respect is a fan's vision. The athletes have a code of ethics they must follow. They have to abide to rules set out by the governing bodies, IOC, ISU, WADA, etc. At that point, if the rules have not been followed, the ban is in place.
As many have said, Kamila has had a good outcome because she wasn't suspended the last couple years. Her ban will only, in reality, be two years. I know it's a long time for a young athlete, especially a figure skater.
At the same time, there needs to be a clear message that it is NOT okay to dope a child. I would ask for her entire entourage to be banned as well... but how to prove it ?

You cant prove it because they are protected by the government. If people think Valieva was protected, they dont even know the kind of protection the school itself has. Its unbreakable, and there will never be any real justice, just the girl thrown in to save the big players.

 

[4everchan]

You cant prove it because they are protected by the government. If people think Valieva was protected, they dont even know the kind of protection the school itself has. Its unbreakable, and there will never be any real justice, just the girl thrown in to save the big players.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. That's the whole point. It's called state sponsored doping and it's not okay. This is why, Russia wasn't even competing with its name, flag and anthem. And now this? Protecting the entourage of a child who was put in this mess ?

When Ben Johnson got caught (1988, Seoul). What did Canada do? They cleaned up Canadian track and field. You can read about the Dubin inquiry. The Canadian government requested that inquiry to clean up the sport. Unthinkable in some countries, I will give you that.

Dubin inquiry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[skatingguy]

I don't disagree with what you are saying. That's the whole point. It's called state sponsored doping and it's not okay. This is why, Russia wasn't even competing with its name, flag and anthem. And now this? Protecting the entourage of a child who was put in this mess ?

When Ben Johnson got caught (1988, Seoul). What did Canada do? They cleaned up Canadian track and field. You can read about the Dubin inquiry. The Canadian government requested that inquiry to clean up the sport. Unthinkable in some countries, I will give you that.

Dubin inquiry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not just track & field - they went after doping in every sport where it could be identified at the time. In terms of results Canada has never again been competitive in sports like weightlifting, and boxing as we were before the Dubin inquiry.

 

[4everchan]

Not just track & field - they went after doping in every sport where it could be identified at the time. In terms of results Canada has never again been competitive in sports like weightlifting, and boxing as we were before the Dubin inquiry.

Canada got some women's weightlifting medals since.. some of which came when other athletes were caught for doping...

 

[icewhite]

Please tell me the cake story is just a rumour and not what they actually went with for the defense.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I appreciate that you answered the question at hand instead of literally lying about what I said (for zero reason), you seem to be in good faith, I dont disregard the perspective you offered as invalid.

However I see that they already share the same coach and medical team which everyone knows is the actual source of any of this. Respect for clean athletes is shown by banning her from competition and giving them their medals. She needs to be allowed the opportunity to continue her life somewhere, if it isnt at Sambo even, but where else then? How ambiguous are the rules? It seems needless, to me, extra.


Until then buddy, until then. Until we get 10, 100, 500 new gold medalists, until, until... You can wait until anything never matters again, because everybody forgets everything, and everything has been done over endlessly. Achievement is achievement, and all achievement is only something until...

Achievement is clouded when foul play is used to achieve it, in my books.

She got caught. To be like “well she will always have the record”… sure numbers are numbers, but I for one will always wonder just how far back and how deep in the Eteri and other camps doping went/goes.

FYI I’m sure there are more than a few world record holders who had the “fortune” of never getting caught at the time and it takes years to rectify results (case in point) if that even ever happens.

In Russia, they are totally fine with athletes getting caught. Because if hypothetically 10 athletes dope, 5 bring home medals or records and 1 gets caught/stripped later, it’s worth the 4 medalists who didn’t get caught. That’s a net gain for them, with just one athlete being collateral. It’s why they haven’t stopped and get a medal stripped at practically every Olympics. 45 out of the 154 medals stripped have been from Russia and 97 (including the 45 from Russia) were former Soviet states.

This verdict won’t change anything. As if Russia or Valieva cares about the ban anyways - they’re in their own bubble with jumping competitions and inflated PCS. Kamila still showed up at Nationals and was showered with 76 PCS with a fall on just one quad attempt. Worse, Kamila’s team still has a career and no ramifications for what they did other than one less piece of hardware that would have been tainted anyways. They all still love her in Russia and stand with her - because they have no choice but to do so. Would anyone in Russia dare call out the elephant in the room and publicly admit to this decision as justified?

The most ridiculous thing in all of this is with the state of figure skating, Russia absolutely didn’t even need a doped skater to win. They just do it because they want to win at all costs even if they have the talent and ability to win.

 

[gsk8]

I understand this is a sensitive subject for some of our members. However, pointing fingers at other countries (or implying they are gloating), trying to paint a picture of Valieva as a down-trodden victim repeatedly, conspiracy theories, etc. is not constructive.

One or two rants are understandable. Have your say and then put a pin it. Please be respectful to others.

 

[anonymoose_au]

So I was wondering, Kamila has a four year ban starting from December 2021, but she's competed inside Russia since then, so is the ban extended? Or because Russians can't compete anyway those competitions don't count?

Also, I take it this means ROC loses the team gold medal? I feel bad for Mark, Nastya M and Sasha G and Nikita and Vika They worked hard to win and through no fault of their own they lose out. Not to mention the whole mess with the medal ceremony...

I wonder if the Team skaters from USA, Canada and Japan can have a medal ceremony in Paris this year, so at least they can have an Olympic moment.

 

[4everchan]

So I was wondering, Kamila has a four year ban starting from December 2021, but she's competed inside Russia since then, so is the ban extended? Or because Russians can't compete anyway those competitions don't count?

Also, I take it this means ROC loses the team gold medal? I feel bad for Mark, Nastya M and Sasha G and Nikita and Vika They worked hard to win and through no fault of their own they lose out. Not to mention the whole mess with the medal ceremony...

I wonder if the Team skaters from USA, Canada and Japan can have a medal ceremony in Paris this year, so at least they can have an Olympic moment.

No. The ban is retroactive and will end in december 2025. What will happen is that all her results from December 2021 will be erased.

 

[pearly]

ISU Statement - Decision of CAS - Kamila Valieva (ROC) - International Skating Union

The ISU welcomes the decision of CAS and firmly maintains its position that the protection of clean athletes and the fight against doping are of the highest priority and will persist in the ongoing effort to uphold the integrity of fair competition and the well-being of athletes. The ISU...

www.isu.org

USA gold
Japan silver
Russia bronze

 

[zebobes]

I'm really surprised that this is the outcome. I guess it makes the whole spreadsheet easier because you only have to edit Russia's point totals... but this seems a weird way to do it if this ever comes up again in a future team competition.