Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Tyranid]

Back on topic: if Valieva's team scores are annulled, it means that Higuchi and Sakamoto move up to 1'st in the SP and FS respectively. Madeline Schizas moves to 2'nd in the SP and FS. Would it be wrong to say that since they moved up to those spots, they should get the corresponding points for their placements, which would be 10+10=20 for Higuchi and Sakamoto and 9+9=18 for Schizas? (and, obviously, all of the other women's singles competitors as well).

If that is indeed not a faulty argument, then we end up with the following result:
1'st. United States - 67 pts.
2'nd. Japan - 65 pts.
3'rd. Canada - 55 pts.
4'th. roc - 54 -pts.
5'th. China - 52 pts.

If the argument is faulty, please help me undestand why. Anyway, hope Canada gets the bronze.

 

[macy]

Back on topic: if Valieva's team scores are annulled, it means that Higuchi and Sakamoto move up to 1'st in the SP and FS respectively. Madeline Schizas moves to 2'nd in the SP and FS. Would it be wrong to say that since they moved up to those spots, they should get the corresponding points for their placements, which would be 10+10=20 for Higuchi and Sakamoto and 9+9=18 for Schizas? (and, obviously, all of the other women's singles competitors as well).

If that is indeed not a faulty argument, then we end up with the following result:
1'st. United States - 67 pts.
2'nd. Japan - 65 pts.
3'rd. Canada - 55 pts.
4'th. roc - 54 -pts.
5'th. China - 52 pts.

If the argument is faulty, please help me undestand why. Anyway, hope Canada gets the bronze.

you are 100% right, and its more than obvious the ISU was just trying to throw Russia a bone here. sounds like Canada is going to be throwing their own book at them, rightfully so. their athletes are being done so dirty.

 

[jenaj]

Her Rostelecom Cup world records will stand for many years, the short program is 87 that can be broken you would need someone with a perfect 3A and incredible skating skills, but the free skate and overall score won't. They'd have to change the scoring rules, but it would still stand forever under old scoring rules.

Oh, ok. I was talking about her record at Europeans.

 

[Caliban]

Eteri comment:

"For two years now, I have not commented in any way on the situation with doping found in Kamila Valieva at the Russian Championship in 2021, despite the undeserved endless hate and accusations in my direction. Our entire team was strictly forbidden to comment or evaluate what was happening in any way, as this could affect and interfere with the investigation. And I probably most of all wanted this story to be thoroughly investigated and that I would have no questions left, even if it was an oversight, mistake or crime on someone's part.

For many years now, I have been working sometimes without days off and vacations for the sake of athletes' results, and I, like no one else, want to know what happened to Kamila and how this drug got into her body. All my athletes have been and remain clean, I am for clean sports, otherwise it cannot be.

Our athletes have been competing in international competitions since 2010. And it will probably be impossible to count the number of doping tests that have been taken during this time. The samples have always been clean, I hope it will remain so. We have always taught and explained to our athletes and their parents that they need to be more careful when taking even the simplest cold medications and, unfortunately, absolutely no one can be trusted. And after two years, nothing became clear, the origin of this drug was not investigated, and a lot of questions remained. And only accusations from different sides are flying in our direction.

I have no questions for Kamila, she is a child and from my side I will continue to support her in every possible way. No offense to all my previous athletes - Kamila is the most gifted athlete. And her athletic share was a fate that is difficult to describe in words. Regarding the verdict, I have one main question - did at least someone defend Kamila at the hearing, because it couldn't have been worse than the verdict.

Kamila's story is our pain"

 

[icewhite]

Eteri comment:

Smart statement, I have to give that to her. I don't believe her, but it's smart and well phrased.

 

[Sackie]

After the Salt Lake City Scandal instead of taking the Gold away from the Russians they just gave a 2nd Gold to CAN. Mainly cause they didn't want to appease the Russians- so why not give out 2 Bronze medals if they again want to appease the Russians. Yes I know it is a difference situation but cheating is cheating.

 

[Mathman]

I hope this is a poor attempt at a joke.

No, it was not a joke. After all this malarkey, what satisfaction can a U.S. or other athlete derive from flying across the globe for a pro-forma ceremomy two years after the fact. They have their medals, they have their names in the record books (possibly with an asterisk). They have already missed out on experiencing the glory of their moment in the sun.

Im the 2002 pairs controversy, where there was a second medal ceremony, the bronze medalists Shen and Zhao refused to attend. They were not interested in such foolishness.

 

[Mathman]

cake story? How would the banned substance get in the cake?!

The story was that some of Kamila's grandfather's heart medicine got mixed up in the cake batter by accident. Something like that.

 

[icewhite]

So far from what I've seen is that current skaters and coaches are mostly either silent or they give decent statements. There is a lot of awful rage though making this a fight of Russia vs. its enemies. This makes it incredibly difficult to support the idea of individual athletes deserving to go to international competitions on their own sportive merits. And as someone who enjoys watching some of the Russians this makes me sad. It makes it impossible to separate sports from politics even to some degree. I just cannot see the skaters returning to the international scene when the whole structure behind them treats this as part of a war instead of a simple doping case that needs to be investigated and cleared up.

 

[Seven Sisters]

The story was that some of Kamila's grandfather's heart medicine got mixed up in the cake batter by accident. Something like that.

An Eteri skater, who was actively training for the Olympics, is alleged to have eaten cake?

I find that hard to believe.

 

[Minz]

No, it was not a joke. After all this malarkey, what satisfaction can a U.S. or other athlete derive from flying across the globe for a pro-forma ceremomy two years after the fact. They have their medals, they have their names in the record books (possibly with an asterisk). They have already missed out on experiencing the glory of their moment in the sun.

Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to have a ceremony. Sometimes, the symbolism does, in fact, matter.

 

[4everchan]

No, it was not a joke. After all this malarkey, what satisfaction can a U.S. or other athlete derive from flying across the globe for a pro-forma ceremomy two years after the fact. They have their medals, they have their names in the record books (possibly with an asterisk). They have already missed out on experiencing the glory of their moment in the sun.

Im the 2002 pairs controversy, where there was a second medal ceremony, the bronze medalists Shen and Zhao refused to attend. They were not interested in such foolishness.

For what it's worth, following some of the Canadian athletes who got awarded medals when their competitors got caught for doping... though the ceremony never would replace the actual joy of getting their medal on the olympic podium, they usually say that it helped them a lot reaching some sort of closure.
People forget that a medal is not just a medal. It means thousands of dollars in funding and in sponsors. For some, it is what allowed them to keep training for another cycle... etc. Some of these medals came several years after the games. At this point, with appeals probably coming from two national federations, the medals will not be awarded until the case is closed definitely. It could take another year, maybe more. Most, if not all, of these skaters will have retired from the sport, with the glorious moment stolen from them. I cannot imagine that all of them would be completely okay to get a medal in the mail. That's a very dismissive way to handle it in my opinion.

 

[yelyoh]

For what it's worth, following some of the Canadian athletes who got awarded medals when their competitors got caught for doping... though the ceremony never would replace the actual joy of getting their medal on the olympic podium, they usually say that it helped them a lot reaching some sort of closure.
People forget that a medal is not just a medal. It means thousands of dollars in funding and in sponsors. For some, it is what allowed them to keep training for another cycle... etc. Some of these medals came several years after the games. At this point, with appeals probably coming from two national federations, the medals will not be awarded until the case if closed definitely. It could take another year, maybe more. Most, if not all, of these skaters will have retired from the sport, with the glorious moment stolen from them. I cannot imagine that all of them would be completely okay to get a medal in the mail. That's a very dismissive way to handle it in my opinion.

ITA. I think the fairest solution is to award the medals in 2026. But I wonder if the skaters would travel especially if they weren't participating in the current games just to go through the medal ceremony.

 

[4everchan]

ITA. I think the fairest solution is to award the medals in 2026. But I wonder if the skaters would travel especially if they weren't participating in the current games just to go through the medal ceremony.

I am pretty sure they would travel.

 

[Arwen17]

Eteri comment:

"For two years now, I have not commented in any way on the situation with doping found in Kamila Valieva at the Russian Championship in 2021, despite the undeserved endless hate and accusations in my direction. Our entire team was strictly forbidden to comment or evaluate what was happening in any way, as this could affect and interfere with the investigation. And I probably most of all wanted this story to be thoroughly investigated and that I would have no questions left, even if it was an oversight, mistake or crime on someone's part.

For many years now, I have been working sometimes without days off and vacations for the sake of athletes' results, and I, like no one else, want to know what happened to Kamila and how this drug got into her body. All my athletes have been and remain clean, I am for clean sports, otherwise it cannot be.

Our athletes have been competing in international competitions since 2010. And it will probably be impossible to count the number of doping tests that have been taken during this time. The samples have always been clean, I hope it will remain so. We have always taught and explained to our athletes and their parents that they need to be more careful when taking even the simplest cold medications and, unfortunately, absolutely no one can be trusted. And after two years, nothing became clear, the origin of this drug was not investigated, and a lot of questions remained. And only accusations from different sides are flying in our direction.

I have no questions for Kamila, she is a child and from my side I will continue to support her in every possible way. No offense to all my previous athletes - Kamila is the most gifted athlete. And her athletic share was a fate that is difficult to describe in words. Regarding the verdict, I have one main question - did at least someone defend Kamila at the hearing, because it couldn't have been worse than the verdict.

Kamila's story is our pain"

So that very much sounds like people going to Kamila and saying "HOW did this end up in your system?"
And then I assume they checked her supplements for contamination or she doesn't take any supplements at all? Because checking water or cake batter seems the least likely source unless she was able to verify all supplements etc she took were not contaminated.
I feel like I'm getting 10% of the story. Even Eteri doesn't seem to know much if she's asking who defended Kamila at the hearing and what they said as a defense.

We will never fully know since its Russia, but it would be extra ironic that after all of this hate towards Kamila it truly was an accidental contamination of some kind and they truly can't figure out where it came from, so they're stuck grasping at straws like cake batter to come up with an explanation.

I want to say I seriously doubt anyone would sabotage her, but then you have incidents like "yogurt girl". Some people are pretty crazy in the skating world, so it's not completely impossible. But I still think accidental rather than sabotage.

If Kamila testified that she has not been given any supplements or only certain ones and they've all been checked, it would make it hard to go after the team for doping her. Because she has to say they've been giving her stuff without telling her the contents.

Kamila is either lying and saying she's been given nothing mysterious by them. Or it is accidental and did somehow get into her food at some point.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

When I posted yesterday I thought Russia got no medal at all, so it was a big surprise to see they got bronze!

But ROC is appealing the decision? Is the gold worth that much to them? They might find themselves banned forever from figure skating with this sort of behaviour. Which is just unfair to all the skaters in that country who want to compete internationally...

Also... I haven't been following - cake story? How would the banned substance get in the cake?!

What a mess...

Based on the ISU denying Canada those two extra points and granting Russia the bronze (appeals pending), I can hardly picture the ISU banning them from figure skating forever. It's going to be hella awkward though if/when Russia and Belarus get invited back.

 

[icewhite]

For what it's worth, following some of the Canadian athletes who got awarded medals when their competitors got caught for doping... though the ceremony never would replace the actual joy of getting their medal on the olympic podium, they usually say that it helped them a lot reaching some sort of closure.
People forget that a medal is not just a medal. It means thousands of dollars in funding and in sponsors. For some, it is what allowed them to keep training for another cycle... etc. Some of these medals came several years after the games. At this point, with appeals probably coming from two national federations, the medals will not be awarded until the case if closed definitely. It could take another year, maybe more. Most, if not all, of these skaters will have retired from the sport, with the glorious moment stolen from them. I cannot imagine that all of them would be completely okay to get a medal in the mail. That's a very dismissive way to handle it in my opinion.

A common one, though.

Giving ROC the bronze seems unfair.

If valieva's results are to be scrubbed out then those who placed below her should go into their proper places in the standings and earn a couple more points for their country.

It came across that Russian was pretty desperate for the team gold (to perhaps the detriment of those in the individual event) and are unhappy with this decision. I can't say I feel sorry for them (though I do feel for her team mates).

Canada should be bronze.

I don't think they are really desperate for that gold. Galliamov and Kondratiuk seemed rather okay with the bronze. It has just been made a big political talking point, with many politicians of all levels raging to heat up the hate against "the west" or using this to show how patriotic they are. Maybe the federation is not even really behind this, I don't know what they think in private, but from instances who are higher up in the hierarchy and the political order the direction is clear. This is not about some medals - the whole affair has been made a symbol and state affair. Sorry to be talking politics again, but it's difficult not to when people like the speaker of the foreign ministry and even the president are commenting in a highly political way.

 

[snowed]

Kamila is either lying and saying she's been given nothing mysterious by them.

If this would be true, what would have been the consequences for her for telling the truth? Also don't forget she was 15, and she is still a minor.

 

[macy]

If this would be true, what would have been the consequences for her for telling the truth? Also don't forget she was 15, and she is still a minor.

exactly, there would be MASSIVE consequences for her. she basically would have outed TT by telling the truth which would mean a domino effect of everyone around her turning on her- her coaches, fans, training mates, the federation. Eteri would 10000% no longer protect or support her and would turn on her, and Eteri has a lot of power in Russia. her competitive career would essentially be over and she wouldn't receive other skating related opportunities in Russia and sponsorships. it would have a domino effect of detrimental events for her - why would she bite the hand that feeds her and ruin the opportunities, sympathy, and support she has from her federation and country?

i do think it's extremely likely she has never known what was in the "supplements" she was given or was being lied to about whats in them, and because of this may wholeheartedly believe it was contamination. to her, her coaches would never do such a thing because she trusts them and are on her side. i would not be surprised in the slightest if she was manipulated into believing a lie (or even many lies). it's been very clear she thinks her coaches really have her best interest in mind and would never sabotage or betray her- she is just the product of the people around her.

 

[4everchan]

Mike Slipchuk from Skate Canada talking to the media

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2305181763995

By not reallocating Valieva's points, ROC still earns "2 points" over the women's field.