Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[4everchan]

Honestly, I think they did that to avoid further legislation. Everyone's sick of this horrible situation and sick of the ridiculous excuses Russia uses. They thought it would prevent Russia from appealing. But, clearly, that didn't work. I hope Russia truly ends up with no medal now. I like many of the athletes on that Russian team. Particularly, the pairs but sometimes group punishment is the only punishment that will lead to change.

I am surprised you thought so... I knew ROC was not going to be fine with anything less than the gold. I also knew Canada would appeal. Actually, the simplest way for them would have been to straight up give the bronze to Canada and see if ROC was going to appeal.. they would have saved themselves "one" appeal... Now, they have two.
Canada looks very polite and quiet when it comes to protests and appeal... but not when doping is involved.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I’m kind of over this scandal TBH. Bring back the toe tapping and judge hugging drama. Those were the days!

 

[readernick]

I am surprised you thought so... I knew ROC was not going to be fine with anything less than the gold. I also knew Canada would appeal. Actually, the simplest way for them would have been to straight up give the bronze to Canada and see if ROC was going to appeal.. they would have saved themselves "one" appeal... Now, they have two.
Canada looks very polite and quiet when it comes to protests and appeal... but not when doping is involved.

Canada barely said anything about this situation for two years. The only federation which was vocal was the USFS. I'm actually not surprised the ISU thought they could offer bronze to Russia without having to deal with appeals. The only brave Canadian athlete has been Meagan Duhamel .. I'm sure Canada takes doping seriously, most federations with the proper funding do ( despite what Russian propaganda says) but they certainly didn't say or do a lot about this situation. Now, we see the results.

 

[el henry]

Interview with Vincent Zhou:

He speaks about the ruling about halfway through and his desire for a medal ceremony at the end.



The rest of it is his history and his experience in Beijing, although not relevant here, I am impressed by how mature and well spoken Vincent is. College agrees with him.

 

[4everchan]

Canada barely said anything about this situation for two years.

To the media they didn't . Do you expect them to play their cards before the hands have been dealt ? That's exactly what Michael Slipchuk explained to the media this week. I did share the video in this thread

They were waiting to see which cards they could play. It wasn't like USA and Japan who knew that 1) they had for sure a medal and 2) most likely any D/Q would give them a chance to upgrade. It was much easier for these athletes to say " we would like our medals" because they did have a medal secured.

The only federation which was vocal was the USFS. I'm actually not surprised the ISU thought they could offer bronze in Russia without having to deal with appeals.

Just read above... Much easier for them to do so.

The only brave Canadian athlete has been Meagan Duhamel ..

I don't think Meagan is the only brave Canadian but she is vocal and is not involved in that team nor has an official role.. much easier for her to say a bunch of things.. and she's already been quite clear about what she thinks of doping in Russian figure skating. Canadian officials tend to speak only when it's time to do so. They trust the legal system to work properly. It usually pays that way.

I'm sure Canada takes doping seriously

I can confirm this to you. It's a very serious matter here. Go back to this thread : I shared about the Dubin inquiry. If figure skating is huge in winter games, the 100m dash is the big event in summer games. Canada's Ben Johnson won and got caught doping. Instead of crying and playing victims, the Canadian government requested an inquiry. They clean track and field.. and then many other sports. It's about pride. It's about honesty. It's about fair play. These are important values to some. For others, glory is more important.

, most federations with the proper funding do ( despite what Russian propaganda says) but they certainly didn't say or do a lot about this situation. Now, we see the results.

funding ? are you kidding me ? How much do you think state-sponsored doping costs ? It's a question of will. Not money.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Interview with Vincent Zhou:

He speaks about the ruling about halfway through and his desire for a medal ceremony at the end.



The rest of it is his history and his experience in Beijing, although not relevant here, I am impressed by how mature and well spoken Vincent is. College agrees with him.

I’d def love to see everyone get a medal ceremony and an all expenses covered trip to the next summer Olympics! Even the bronze medalists who IMO did nothing wrong.

That would be a good look for the Olympics which is supposed to foster an environment of unity and create bridges for international togetherness.

 

[readernick]

funding ? are you kidding me ? How much do you think state-sponsored doping costs ? It's a question of will. Not money.

Clearly, I wasn't referring to Russia here. I said "most". Russian propaganda tries to make it seem like everyone is as bad as them, so really they aren't doing anything wrong. But, most developed countries do take doping seriously and cheaters such as Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong are hated by the majority of sports fans in these countries. Obviously, Russia uses their funding in a different way. To help cheaters, not catch them.

What I meant by proper funding is that a lot of anti-doping agencies in developing countries don't have the funding or skilled-staff to properly test athletes even if they do believe in clean sports. This was not a reference to Russia.

About Canadian athletes not taking a stand here, I'm not saying they don't have reasons. But, I do think it was easy for the ISU to realize that America would absolutely appeal any decision that didn't grant them the gold. Canada didn't make their stance clear. So, it's easy to see why they thought giving Russia bronze was the easiest decision.

 

[4everchan]

Clearly, I wasn't referring to Russia here. I said "most". Russian propaganda tries to make it seem like everyone is as bad as them, so really they aren't doing anything wrong. But, most developed countries do take doping seriously and cheaters such as Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong are hated by the majority of sports fans in these countries. Obviously, Russia uses their funding in a different way. To help cheaters, not catch them.

What I meant by proper funding is that a lot of anti-doping agencies in developing countries don't have the funding or skilled-staff to properly test athletes even if they do believe in clean sports. This was not a reference to Russia, clearly.

Thanks for clarifying.

About Canadian athletes not taking a stand here, I'm not saying they don't have reasons. But, I do think it was easy for the ISU to realize that America would absolutely appeal any decision that didn't grant them the gold. Canada didn't make their stance clear. So, it's easy to see why they thought giving Russia bronze was the easiest decision.

I am not an insider but my take on this is the following.
Skate Canada told their athletes NOT to talk about it publicly as they were waiting for a decision to be made, with their best interest in mind. Skate Canada definitely talked to the ISU. Definitely.
Just keep in mind who is the ISU's Vice-President right now : Canadian, Benoit Lavoie. Whistle blower in the 2002 pair judging scandal. Do you really think Skate Canada wasn't going to be able to reach the ISU ? Who knows what is going on behind the scenes ?

 

[saine]

I don't think Meagan is the only brave Canadian but she is vocal and is not involved in that team nor has an official role.. much easier for her to say a bunch of things.. and she's already been quite clear about what she thinks of doping in Russian figure skating. Canadian officials tend to speak only when it's time to do so. They trust the legal system to work properly. It usually pays that way.

This is something that is getting lost in the discourse about how Meagan is the only one speaking out. She isn't competing, isn't involved with Skate Canada, isn't coaching figure skaters and isn't involved with the ISU like other athletes. She's free to speak out as much as she wants as long as she doesn't have a role in the system. Once she has a role, she will have to be more discrete about what she speaks about when she appears on TSL or makes tweets.

My job involves sensitive information and topics. I know I can't talk about what I do openly. If I talked about what I know openly, there would be ramifications beyond my continued employment. The same applies to the athletes, who may know more about the situation than what Meagan does. It is a legal case for Skate Canada. They are not going to talk about it openly.

 

[el henry]

I’d def love to see everyone get a medal ceremony and an all expenses covered trip to the next summer Olympics! Even the bronze medalists who IMO did nothing wrong.

That would be a good look for the Olympics which is supposed to foster an environment of unity and create bridges for international togetherness.

May I suggest you listen to the interview (it's really quite good) to see whether Vincent would like to be at medal ceremony with bronze medalists other than Canadians? (although he does not speak directly to the Canadian issue, he does speak directly to doping).

Usain Bolt did "nothing wrong", yet he is missing one gold medal because a teammate doped.

I'll take my cue from Vincent. And the other members of Team USA on the importance of clean competitions

 

[Skater Boy]

May I suggest you listen to the interview (it's really quite good) to see whether Vincent would like to be at medal ceremony with bronze medalists other than Canadians? (although he does not speak directly to the Canadian issue, he does speak directly to doping).

Usain Bolt did "nothing wrong", yet he is missing one gold medal because a teammate doped.

I'll take my cue from Vincent. And the other members of Team USA on the importance of clean competitions

When will this nightmare end? Unfortunately, the more yelling screaming and crying in the end figure skating will lose no matter what. Since 2002 figure skating has continued to lose viewership and interest. I just feel bad for everyone including Kamilla. Happy USA and Japan will get their medals. Not sure what to think about Russia getting bronze over Canada. Still pretty amazing how they lose 20 pts and are still in contention for a medal.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

May I suggest you listen to the interview (it's really quite good) to see whether Vincent would like to be at medal ceremony with bronze medalists other than Canadians? (although he does not speak directly to the Canadian issue, he does speak directly to doping).

Usain Bolt did "nothing wrong", yet he is missing one gold medal because a teammate doped.

I'll take my cue from Vincent. And the other members of Team USA on the importance of clean competitions

Look .I hear you but please consider..,


IMHO…no one other than Kamila has done anything wrong so it is beyond my comprehension as to why anyone else’s performances should be in question. To play devils advocate here if Kamila got all +5 GOES should the rest of her teammates be granted the same scores? Obviously not because they are all supposed to be judged independently from each other.

No offense to Vincent here and while I respect his opinion I come from a family of lawyers and judges (who can dispute a board game two hours longer than any human should ) …I don't think the facts presented warrant erasing the efforts of Kamila’s teammates who all passed tests and performed clean at the Olympics.

I think it’s just time to move forward and the fact that Kamila’s teammates did well enough to earn bronze without even counting her scores is more than enough for me to just let it be and move on.

To each the own but I feel content with this outcome.

 

[4everchan]

Look .I hear you but please consider..,


IMHO…no one other than Kamila has done anything wrong so it is beyond my comprehension as to why anyone else’s performances should be in question. To play devils advocate here if Kamila got all +5 GOES should the rest of her teammates be granted the same scores? Obviously not because they are all supposed to be judged independently from each other.

No offense to Vincent here and while I respect his opinion I come from a family of lawyers and judges (who can dispute a board game two hours longer than any human should ) …I don't think the facts presented warrant erasing the efforts of Kamila’s teammates who all passed tests and performed clean at the Olympics.

I think it’s just time to move forward and the fact that Kamila’s teammates did well enough to earn bronze without even counting her scores is more than enough for me to just let it be and move on.

To each the own but I feel content with this outcome.

None of Kamila's teammates results have been erased. Quite the opposite.

However, The women who finished below Kamila, as her scores should be erased, didn't receive the true scores they should have received.
That's why some people are upset.

Because of that, Kamila still "erased" 2 points from EVERY other team competing in the final round.

So my own, is that Kamila's participation has not yet been completely erased and I am not happy about it.

 

[rain]

None of Kamila's teammates results have been erased. Quite the opposite.

However, The women who finished below Kamila, as her scores should be erased, didn't receive the true scores they should have received.
That's why some people are upset.

Because of that, Kamila still "erased" 2 points from EVERY other team competing in the final round.

So my own, is that Kamila's participation has not yet been completely erased and I am not happy about it.

You said it. In fact, Kamila is still getting two points for the Russian team.

 

[4everchan]

You said it. In fact, Kamila is still getting two points for the Russian team.

and I made sure to use the word ERASE enough times so it's the last time I have to say it

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

None of Kamila's teammates results have been erased. Quite the opposite.

However, The women who finished below Kamila, as her scores should be erased, didn't receive the true scores they should have received.
That's why some people are upset.

Because of that, Kamila still "erased" 2 points from EVERY other team competing in the final round.

So my own, is that Kamila's participation has not yet been completely erased and I am not happy about it.

Is this where we can finally discuss how Anastasia Gubanova actually outperformed and should have been scored higher than Madeline in BOTH programs and was unfairly judged in the team SP especially

I guess if we’re going back and discussing narratives I’ll go with this because I’ve always believed it to be true

I just sent an email to CAS. Give it four years and when I’m proven right we can finally move past this uncomfortableness.

 

[4everchan]

Is this where we can finally discuss how Anastasia Gubanova actually outperformed and should have been scored higher than Madeline in BOTH programs and was unfairly judged in the FS especially

I guess if we’re going back and discussing narratives I’ll go with this because I’ve always believed it to be true

I just sent an email to CAS. Give it four years and when I’m proven right we can finally move past this uncomfortableness.

yeah.. i am not one of those who ask Justice for Gubanova.

But you know, Gubanova would have earned more ranking points too if Kamila's score had been properly erased

buh-byeeeeee

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

yeah.. i am not one of those who ask Justice for Gubanova.

But you know, Gubanova would have earned more ranking points too if Kamila's score had been properly erased

buh-byeeeeee

I’ll post Anastasia’s skate here….

https://youtu.be/lQHvQavavtE?si=fJQb837DAjlWhhiE



HELLO

 

[4everchan]

I’ll post Anastasia’s skate here….

https://youtu.be/lQHvQavavtE?si=fJQb837DAjlWhhiE



HELLO

Let's compare Maddie's and Nastia's LP in the team event... Oh... Wait

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Let's compare Maddie's and Nastia's LP in the team event... Oh... Wait

We’re so far off topic

But only kinda cuz.., Gubs SP IMO should have placed 3rd (or higher) costing Canada points. Twas a total rip IMO and as a result consequently impacting this discussion,

I really couldn’t care less if Canada or Russia wins bronze here because as far as I’m concerned both the remaining Russians and Canadians all are deserving, YMMV