Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups | Page 283 | Golden Skate

Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

I mean, if you think the medicines are helping you that's fine, i'm just saying from the knowledge and experience i have medicines can't cure you in some true sense, they are just keeping your ADHD on some level adequate for some society, and that's it...
I agree and don't think this is controversial. It is essentially amphetamines. I tried one of these prescribed pills once (only time in my life I have ever taken any kind of drug) and I was awake for 30 hours. It's an extremely powerful stimulant. If taken regularly the body would of course adapt to this.

It does not cure, but helps people manage their condition.

Whether or not it gives Biles an advantage it's hard to say, but it could be used for a competitive advantage by someone unethical if used irregularly so that the body does not build up a tolerance. Just take the pills before competition. I've never had that feeling of being alert and unaffected by no sleep before or since. In some countries they hand them out quite easily to people who have had a diagnosis since childhood. Of course, there is no reason to suspect that Biles isn't genuine I am just theorising how drugs could be misused.
 
Of course, there is no reason to suspect that Biles isn't genuine I am just theorising how drugs could be misused.
Yeah, i'm not saying that Simone would be better without medicine, some can functioning without it, some can't. I was trying to say that professional sports life doesn't help her condition. And how that is connected with Kamila, i totally forgot now. So better to stop talking :biggrin: Edit- I remember now, i commented list of (not banned) medicine Kamila was using, trying to say there is nothing strange with that, especially knowing it was taken during the corona outbreak. So the choice was to take those medicines, or to stop to compete until her health is better.
 
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Following up on my previous post, I ran the numbers, and:

(1) Italy would have slipped ahead of China and Georgia, making the final!
(2) Without Valieva's contribution, ROC is nowhere near the podium, they'd be fifth.
(3) Results with Valieva's contribution: ROC-1st, USA-2nd, JPN-3rd, CAN-4th, CHN-5th
(4) Results without Valieva's contribution: USA-1st, JPN-2nd, CAN-3rd, CHN-4th, ROC-5th
 
Following up on my previous post, I ran the numbers, and:

(1) Italy would have slipped ahead of China and Georgia, making the final!
(2) Without Valieva's contribution, ROC is nowhere near the podium, they'd be fifth.
(3) Results with Valieva's contribution: ROC-1st, USA-2nd, JPN-3rd, CAN-4th, CHN-5th
(4) Results without Valieva's contribution: USA-1st, JPN-2nd, CAN-3rd, CHN-4th, ROC-5th
If you have time, do the other years as well. Fortunately there aren't too many of them.
 
they have not because they still retain 2 points away from the other teams...
The point is they as a team qualified for the free even without Kamila points. By qualifying for the free you get some amount of the points, even nobody skates your free programme. That is the rule made for example team as Korea, who doesnt have a pair team but can still qualify for the free... It is stupid, but it is what it is, and it has nothing with ROC for that matter... Out of the rules, by watching that team event and knowing the results of Kamilas case, i really dont think Canada deserved any medal, nor ROC deserved any medal, nor USA deserved gold, but it is what it is - the point of competing is to do your best at the moment of competing, if its that making you get some medals (or not) is not really the most important thing...
 
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The point is they as a team qualified for the free even without Kamila points. By qualifying for the free you get some amount of the points, even nobody skates your free programme.
? I don't understand what you are implying.
That is the rule made for example team as Korea, who doesnt have a pair team but can still qualify for the free... It is stupid, but it is what it is, and it has nothing with ROC for that matter...
Teams without all 4 disciplines do not score anything for the discipline where they do not have skaters.... In that sense, if you take away the women from ROC because they no longer have a competitor, they do not score any points on these segments... and the skaters from other nations can score 10 points.. not 9, maximum.
Out of the rules, by watching that team event and knowing the results of Kamilas case, i really dont think Canada deserved any medal, nor ROC deserved any medal, nor USA deserved gold, but it is what it is - the point of competing is to do your best at the moment of competing, if its that making you get some medals (or not) is not really the most important thing...
Tell KMT that she doesn't deserve her medal for training day after day for over two decades and showing up at her 3rd Oympics.
 
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Tell KMT that she doesn't deserve her medal for training day after day for over two decades and showing up at her 3rd Oympics.
Without being prejudicial, that is not a good argument, plenty of skaters train day after day for just as long, and she's by no means the first or twentieth or more to show up for a 3rd Olympics. You don't get medals for attendance.

If the appeal is successful, she like the other Canadian and US and Japanese will get them because the team that was better than them all had (quite correctly) a member disqualified. Not because they were actually better than that team.
 
Without being prejudicial, that is not a good argument, plenty of skaters train day after day for just as long, and she's by no means the first or twentieth or more to show up for a 3rd Olympics. You don't get medals for attendance.

If the appeal is successful, she like the other Canadian and US and Japanese will get them because the team that was better than them all had (quite correctly) a member disqualified. Not because they were actually better than that team.
That was not my point at all.
 
Well, you are the one decided to acknowledge the whole team as a cheaters even just one of the participants was :shrug:
It depends on how someone sees things.

One point of view is strong anti-doping rules. A team with a doped athlete needs to be d/q completely to protect clean sport.
The other point of view is defending clean athletes part of a team with a doped athlete. This may send a sympathy message towards those who didn't cheat from that team, but it also sends the message that even with someone who cheated, a team can still win a medal.

I can see how both points of view are valid.
 
It depends on how someone sees things.

One point of view is strong anti-doping rules. A team with a doped athlete needs to be d/q completely to protect clean sport.
The other point of view is defending clean athletes part of a team with a doped athlete. This may send a sympathy message towards those who didn't cheat from that team, but it also sends the message that even with someone who cheated, a team can still win a medal.

I can see how both points of view are valid.
It definitely depends how someone sees things... My point is that i will always defend the athletes, not the states and not the medals... At the the end of the story, all those ROC athletes including Kamila had negative tests both on Olympics and Europeans, which is pretty telling to me who is worthy of the medals and who is not... No matter of what the system is or what the individuals on the forum think... You know i adore you, but that is just my truthful opinion on the topic, and i would never change it just because the majority think otherwise...
 
It definitely depends how someone sees things... My point is that i will always defend the athletes, not the states and not the medals... At the the end of the story, all those ROC athletes including Kamila had negative tests both on Olympics and Europeans, which is pretty telling to me who is worthy of the medals and who is not... No matter of what the system is or what the individuals on the forum think... You know i adore you, but that is just my truthful opinion on the topic, and i would never change it just because the majority think otherwise...
I also defend the athletes but I tend to see the larger picture.. Defending the ROC clean athletes may be commendable but does that do justice to the dozens of athletes who participated in the team event ? Or what about all the skaters who participated in the women competition ? I mean the whole event became a gong show. Considering it may be the only chance for many of these athletes to compete at the Olympics, no matter of medals and rankings, I find it upsetting. Many athletes have spoken along those lines too. It's unfortunate that ROC let Kamila compete in the women's event. The team event was going to get ruined no matter what. They could have preserved the women's competition, not only for all the other nations but for Anna and Sasha too.
 
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If a team has a cheater participating, that team is not better than anyone.

I don't care if the team had 3,290,301.5 points versus 10. The team is NOT "better". They are cheaters. :shrug:
There is no evidence Kamila cheated. Even CAS say she did not seek to gain an advantage and her testimony was honest and trustworthy.

Secondly she passed all tests at the Olympics. If there was the adverse test result at the Olympics it might be a different matter, but she competed at the Olympics in good faith, within the rules. It was a mistake on the past of WADA's lab to not return the result in time. This is the reason for all of this mess. They pay a lab to do its job and it can't do it.

The team didn't cheat (and neither did Kamila according to CAS), so calling them cheaters is very unfair.

Still, Kamila received the maximum possible punishment having all 20 points she legitimately earned deducted from the team's total, and maximum punishment from WADA too. Four years is unprecedented for a protected person for a trace amount of this drug maybe the harshest ban in the history of sports but Kamila has accepted this without complaint.

I really have a problem with someone labelling a 15 year old child a cheater when CAS have confirmed she didn't cheat by trying to gain an unfair advantage. It's a child at the centre of this we should keep her mental health in mind. She is the victim in this (more so than anyone else). This is more important than a piece of metal.
 
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I hope they apologise to all the athletes who are still waiting for their medals when this appeal inevitably fails. I hope this appeal doesn't last past the world championships this would have been a great opportunity to present the medals.

This bloodlust for a bronze medal in a meaningless and contrived team event won't address systemic problems Skate Canada faces for the upcoming Olympics, and even petitioning changes the rules to fast track transfers from other countries will not help long term. It's papering over the cracks.
 
Without being prejudicial, that is not a good argument, plenty of skaters train day after day for just as long, and she's by no means the first or twentieth or more to show up for a 3rd Olympics. You don't get medals for attendance.

If the appeal is successful, she like the other Canadian and US and Japanese will get them because the team that was better than them all had (quite correctly) a member disqualified. Not because they were actually better than that team.
I agree, and it's just a piece of metal at the end of the day (in a contrived event to create extra TV content and see the biggest names skate their programs more than once).

Not receiving this team event bronze does not invalidate or define a career. It's an achievement to simply compete and try to give your best performance at the Olympic Games.
 
I hope they apologise to all the athletes who are still waiting for their medals when this appeal inevitably fails. I hope this appeal doesn't last past the world championships this would have been a great opportunity to present the medals.

This bloodlust for a bronze medal in a meaningless and contrived team event won't address systemic problems Skate Canada faces for the upcoming Olympics, and even petitioning changes the rules to fast track transfers from other countries will not help long term. It's papering over the cracks.

Like the Russians have now apologized for dragging out the case close to two years?

The Olympic bronze medal can be a very meaningful thing for athletes who have federation and sponsor performance bonuses tied up to that metric- it can mean the difference between being able to afford to train on for another year or not.
 
Like the Russians have now apologized for dragging out the case close to two years?

The Olympic bronze medal can be a very meaningful thing for athletes who have federation and sponsor performance bonuses tied up to that metric- it can mean the difference between being able to afford to train on for another year or not.
Not only for the athletes but also for Skate Canada itself. Funding depends on Olympic results.
 
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